Comments on: Earth Shattering Arguments http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/ Wed, 23 May 2012 05:13:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Anonymous http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-576217 Anonymous Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:55:46 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-576217 why do we always feel that IITs are only about undergraduates (JEE entrants)only? IIT has a considerable portion of post graduate population. IIT is heavily funded because though few but in some fields atleast cutting edge researches are going on. why do we always feel that IITs are only about undergraduates (JEE entrants)only? IIT has a considerable portion of post graduate population. IIT is heavily funded because though few but in some fields atleast cutting edge researches are going on.

]]> By: satya chatterjee http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-576111 satya chatterjee Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:35:17 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-576111 IIT'S are extremely over rated. I know engineers' who cracked the IIT entrance test but did not take up studies at the IIT. They have done exceptionally well in life. IIt is not even closer in terms of its achievements to MIT or Oxford. How many Noble Prize winners can you count from IIt? none. It makes no sense discussing about an institution which is heavily funded by the government and other Engineering institutions are treated like a sick child. IIT’S are extremely over rated. I know engineers’ who cracked the IIT entrance test but did not take up studies at the IIT. They have done exceptionally well in life. IIt is not even closer in terms of its achievements to MIT or Oxford. How many Noble Prize winners can you count from IIt? none. It makes no sense discussing about an institution which is heavily funded by the government and other Engineering institutions are treated like a sick child.

]]> By: Saket Jha http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-563064 Saket Jha Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:37:35 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-563064 Agree with your point of view about the reservations. And I am sure with the increase in reservations, the tech talent quality quantity ratio in India will suffer a loss. But I was wondering about these sentences: "And with IBM, Microsoft, Google, GM, GE and many other powerhouses opening research divisions in India, the market has spoken. Loud and clear." Now as I understand it, you mean that the above mentioned companies have opened divisions, may be research divisions, because of the talent that they find in India. Thats so not true. The primary reason for all these companies (I am keeping Microsoft and Google out of this group) to open up offices in India is due to cheaper per hour labor that they get. We all know that Indian (software) companies were on a hiring spree since last 4-5 years where they recruited people who knew nothing about software development. And forget about the talent which they see in these guys before hiring them, they would have hired dogs for the cheap prices they get here and the billions of dollars worth of projects that were being outsourced. The crores of rupees worth of software exports from India is attributed to the cheap prices, it has nothing to do with talent. Agree with your point of view about the reservations. And I am sure with the increase in reservations, the tech talent quality quantity ratio in India will suffer a loss. But I was wondering about these sentences:

“And with IBM, Microsoft, Google, GM, GE and many other powerhouses opening research divisions in India, the market has spoken. Loud and clear.”

Now as I understand it, you mean that the above mentioned companies have opened divisions, may be research divisions, because of the talent that they find in India. Thats so not true. The primary reason for all these companies (I am keeping Microsoft and Google out of this group) to open up offices in India is due to cheaper per hour labor that they get. We all know that Indian (software) companies were on a hiring spree since last 4-5 years where they recruited people who knew nothing about software development. And forget about the talent which they see in these guys before hiring them, they would have hired dogs for the cheap prices they get here and the billions of dollars worth of projects that were being outsourced. The crores of rupees worth of software exports from India is attributed to the cheap prices, it has nothing to do with talent.

]]> By: ibcd http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-420982 ibcd Sat, 01 Dec 2007 03:56:00 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-420982 Being a product myself of the "faulty" Indian education system and then again being a part of the firangi(american) education system I think that we Indians have a utopic concept about research and education. The question if IITians are really talented or just hacks is a dumb question because the answer , if it is yes/no would be too much generalisation...... It is true that Indians are not the world leaders in many fundamental sciences...but it is not true that all the blame goes to IITians I think we should blame our social structure our understanding of contemporary research the dismal attitude of our society towards research in general( a TIFR grad student earns 1200/- whereas a low level software job pays 20000-25000/- ) Moreover we must understand that "major breakthroughs" are seldom (never) results of depraved geniuses working in their attics but are the products of live conglomerets of interactive professionals. Finally I will like to remark that perhaps we shouldn't blame the IITs for not producing great researchers but try to make more facilities so that more and more of the eligible Indian population gets better training........there is no point in complaining ...when there is so much work to do .....complaining is so easier though:) Being a product myself of the “faulty” Indian education system and then again being a part of the firangi(american) education system I think that we Indians have a utopic concept about research and education.
The question if IITians are really talented or just hacks is a dumb question because the answer , if it is yes/no would be too much generalisation…… It is true that Indians are not the world leaders in many fundamental sciences…but it is not true that all the blame goes to IITians I think we should blame our social structure our understanding of contemporary research the dismal attitude of our society towards research in general( a TIFR grad student earns 1200/- whereas a low level software job pays 20000-25000/- )
Moreover we must understand that “major breakthroughs” are seldom (never) results of depraved geniuses working in their attics but are the products of live conglomerets of interactive professionals.
Finally I will like to remark that perhaps we shouldn’t blame the IITs for not producing great researchers but try to make more facilities so that more and more of the eligible Indian population gets better training……..there is no point in complaining …when there is so much work to do …..complaining is so easier though:)

]]> By: Beau Peep http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-323796 Beau Peep Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:45:48 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-323796 Arnab in his reply to Abhishek's comment here said; "What you mention is indeed a separate, no less important issue—the declining standards of grad/PhD programmes in Indian universities. The reason for that is simple: professors are not paid enough." False! Salaries and incentives don't usually drive a motivative researcher to do research. There are umpteen number of examples in India. I have had the misfortune of working for an IT project of <a href="http://www.rmrims.org.in" rel="nofollow">Rajendra Memorial Research Institute of Medical Sciences</a>, supposedly the leading research center in Kala-azar, in Patna. What I found there is that an obscene amount of money is spent on the top officials' foreign tours and other worthless things. There is corruption from top to bottom of the hierarchy. The labs are in pathetic conditions. The only guys who seem to do some kind of serious work are the ones who look (appear) poorest of them all. This is reminiscent of almost all research institutes funded by the government. As of IIT-ians, I can bet that most of the top passouts are not any better than the toppers of other engineering colleges. Lastly, I would like to mention that we Indian's have been good followers, but never good pioneers. We may be good coders, but not good programmers. We can make good software running for say Windows, but creating an OS like Windows is beyond the thinking capacity of most of our much feted IIT-ians. Arnab in his reply to Abhishek’s comment here said; “What you mention is indeed a separate, no less important issue—the declining standards of grad/PhD programmes in Indian universities. The reason for that is simple: professors are not paid enough.”

False! Salaries and incentives don’t usually drive a motivative researcher to do research. There are umpteen number of examples in India.

I have had the misfortune of working for an IT project of Rajendra Memorial Research Institute of Medical Sciences, supposedly the leading research center in Kala-azar, in Patna. What I found there is that an obscene amount of money is spent on the top officials’ foreign tours and other worthless things. There is corruption from top to bottom of the hierarchy.

The labs are in pathetic conditions. The only guys who seem to do some kind of serious work are the ones who look (appear) poorest of them all. This is reminiscent of almost all research institutes funded by the government.

As of IIT-ians, I can bet that most of the top passouts are not any better than the toppers of other engineering colleges.

Lastly, I would like to mention that we Indian’s have been good followers, but never good pioneers. We may be good coders, but not good programmers. We can make good software running for say Windows, but creating an OS like Windows is beyond the thinking capacity of most of our much feted IIT-ians.

]]> By: Kipa http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-16920 Kipa Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:29:39 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-16920 Since the subject & comments are related to IIT's here is a brillant article about 2 IITians preparing the students from rural village in Bihar for JEE. Stastics are amazing. http://ia.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/16iit1.htm?q=bp&file=.htm Since the subject & comments are related to IIT’s here is a brillant article about 2 IITians preparing the students from rural village in Bihar for JEE.
Stastics are amazing.

http://ia.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/16iit1.htm?q=bp&file=.htm

]]> By: The Reservation Debate-Part 1 at Retributions http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-14125 The Reservation Debate-Part 1 at Retributions Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:35:11 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-14125 [...] Update-More fun. Greatbong takes on Annie here. [...] [...] Update-More fun. Greatbong takes on Annie here. [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-11199 Anonymous Mon, 26 Jun 2006 07:59:25 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-11199 Here's the text of my comment on Miss Zaidi's post. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah…. another case of a humanities (cough) scholar (cough) jealous of IITians… Let’s see… The merit evaluation system in schools and colleges is flawed. Therefore: Let’s undermine the few remaining institutions where merit is accurately assessed. Brilliant! ____________________________________________________________________ “Why do you think I was trying so hard for a first division? Because that would entitle me to admissions in better, more prestigious universities, where I had a real chance of a real education, better teachers, and hopefully, a better career after that. That is why.” ____________________________________________________________________ Annie, now pay attention. That is PRECISELY why IITs and IIMs have entrance tests. So that even a student whose papers weren’t marked correctly still has a chance. If he does well in the entrance exam, nobody gives a damn about his scores in the XII boards. Unlike, say, DU, where someone who scored 85% by cramming the course material and regurgitating it word for word can get into a top college. ____________________________________________________________________ “But since some of us have benefitted from this catch-22, let others benefit as well.” ____________________________________________________________________ Ah yes… two wrongs make a right, yes? Impeccable logic! Sparkling wisdom! Anyone can see you were (are?) a humanities student. Here’s the text of my comment on Miss Zaidi’s post.

———————————————————————————

Ah….

another case of a humanities (cough) scholar (cough) jealous of IITians…

Let’s see…

The merit evaluation system in schools and colleges is flawed.

Therefore:

Let’s undermine the few remaining institutions where merit is accurately assessed.

Brilliant!
____________________________________________________________________

“Why do you think I was trying so hard for a first division? Because that would entitle me to admissions in better, more prestigious universities, where I had a real chance of a real education, better teachers, and hopefully, a better career after that. That is why.”
____________________________________________________________________

Annie, now pay attention. That is PRECISELY why IITs and IIMs have entrance tests. So that even a student whose papers weren’t marked correctly still has a chance. If he does well in the entrance exam, nobody gives a damn about his scores in the XII boards. Unlike, say, DU, where someone who scored 85% by cramming the course material and regurgitating it word for word can get into a top college.
____________________________________________________________________

“But since some of us have benefitted from this catch-22, let others benefit as well.”
____________________________________________________________________

Ah yes… two wrongs make a right, yes?

Impeccable logic! Sparkling wisdom!

Anyone can see you were (are?) a humanities student.

]]> By: raccoon http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-9771 raccoon Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:08:10 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-9771 This essay/post by Annie Zaidi should be discounted as just a piece of flowery writing in English and not of logic or reasoned arguments. She is trying to emulate Arundhati Roy who, having earned acclaim as a writer, also tried to use those writing skills to appear as a 'citizen of the world', trying to spew stupid opinions on controversial/fashionable subjects. Unfortunately, Annie does'nt have the literary acclaim or the logic to back up her writing. The writing on a controversial topic earned her her brief 15 seconds of fame with even GB referring to her essay - she must be gloating...who cares about logic?? A wannabe writer trying to also act as an opinion leader....unfortunately Annie, your opinion is flawed...most of the times. Stick to your poems on monsoon or love. This essay/post by Annie Zaidi should be discounted as just a piece of flowery writing in English and not of logic or reasoned arguments. She is trying to emulate Arundhati Roy who, having earned acclaim as a writer, also tried to use those writing skills to appear as a ‘citizen of the world’, trying to spew stupid opinions on controversial/fashionable subjects. Unfortunately, Annie does’nt have the literary acclaim or the logic to back up her writing. The writing on a controversial topic earned her her brief 15 seconds of fame with even GB referring to her essay – she must be gloating…who cares about logic??

A wannabe writer trying to also act as an opinion leader….unfortunately Annie, your opinion is flawed…most of the times. Stick to your poems on monsoon or love.

]]> By: Apurva http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-9518 Apurva Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:39:24 +0000 http://greatbong.net/2006/05/22/earth-shattering-arguments/#comment-9518 What a schmuck this Annie is! What a schmuck this Annie is!

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