Long time…

A brief account of the Arab invasion is found in many Arab chronicles of the early years of Islam. A very good account is available from the Futuhul-Buldan of Ahmad ibn Yahya ibn Jabir Al Baladuri, an extract from which appears in “History of India” by Elliott & Dowson.

By far the most detailed and reliable history appears in Tarikh-i-Hind wa Sind, known as the Chach Nama. It is a translation from an Arabic original, now lost, by Muhammad ‘Ali bin hamid bin Abu Bakar Kufi, who lived in reign of Sultan Nasir-ud-din Qubacha. The internal evidence of the Persian text is quite strong, and proves beyond doubt that though the translator added to it here and there, the original Arabic history was written at the time of the invasion, by a person who was well informed of the facts (possibly the Qazi appointed by Qasim at Alor).

SOURCES AVILABLE ON THE INTERNET

John Keay “A History of India”
http://books.google.com/books?id=ibLUu6RlvqwC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=dahir sind&source=web&ots=X_KC_COFWD&sig=eoorTPxeR_8vXsGdca7MRD2EV_Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA183,M1

Hugh Kennedy “The Great Arab conquests”
http://books.google.com/books?id=oLyZhTuIczMC&pg=PA299&lpg=PA299&dq=dahir sind&source=web&ots=UUkQEyumyb&sig=DKtSC9PcU3PZc9UiZ0vhL0FLVZQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA302,M1

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~makhdoom/sindh.html
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~makhdoom/sindstor.html
http://www.experiencefestival.com/dahir
http://india_resource.tripod.com/sindh.html

I am sure you can read internet excerpts from the John Keay & Hugh Kennedy books if you google properly.

As a conclusion, I advise you to be far more certain of your facts before cavaliarly and carelessly banding around the term “liar” to people who dissent with you. You must know by now, that many of these dissenters know the facts in far more depth and breadth than you imagined, and terms like “liar” may boomerang back on you !!

JEDIMASTER : [edited by me] “HHBB MENTIONED THAT WHEN MUSLIM ARMY WAS ABOUT TO ENTER THE CAPITAL OF SINDH, THE QUEEN OF “TO SAVE HER HONOR” COMMITTED JAUHAR. GOOGLING REVEALED THE QUEEN DIDN’T COMMIT JAUHAR BUT SATI AS HER HUSBAND HAD RECENTLY DIED IN BATTLE. SHE DIED AN UNNATURAL DEATH (PROBABLY UNDER PRESSURE) BY IMMOLATING HERSELF, BUT IF WE LOOK AT THE HINDUTVA VERSIONS SHE DIED TO SAVE HERSELF FROM “RAPING” AND “PILLAGING” MUSLIMS, WHEREAS WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT SHE FELL VICTIM TO ONE OF THE MOST CRUEL AND INHUMAN MALPRACTICE OF HINDU RELIGION”.

You are incorrect, my friend on many, many levels. Let’s take a look at the facts, one by one.

“JM SAYS : HHBB LIES WHEN HE SAYS QUEEN KILLED HERSELF TO SAVE HONOUR”

You allege that my post states “when Muslim army was about to enter the capital of Sindh, the queen of “to save her honor” committed Jauhar”.

Go and read my post, it says nothing of the sort. All it says is “Dahir’s half-sister wife committed jauhar”. Nothing more, nothing less. Show me where that post remotely says “to save her honour”, or “when the Muslim army was about to enter the capital of Sindh”. It never says this.

You are reading things which don’t exist. Am I the liar here, or you?

JM SAYS “HHBB LIES WHEN HE SAYS QUEEN COMMITTED JAUHAR. IT WAS SATI”

Your second point was that “the queen” (sic)’ committed Sati, not Jauhar. You claimed that some elemental googling was enough to expose this canard. Hmm. Bote.

Sati is an individual action. It is collectively practiced only when wives of the same husband undergo the ritual (death of Krishna or Ranjit Singh). When disparate and unconnected womenfolk immolate themselves, especially when fearing attacks, it is Jauhar.

In many places, the terms have been used interchangeably, as the action is the same, self-immolation. If so, it is the context that will reveal whether it is sati or jauhar. Let us see the context here.

Hugh Kennedy (“The Great Arab conquests”) quotes from the Chachnama that “Many of Dahir’s women committed suicide, burning themselves, their ATTENDANTS and ALL THEIR POSSESSIONS RATHER THAN BE CAPTURED. The Chachnama puts a little speech in to the mouth of the dead king’s sister (queen) “Our glory has gone and the term of our life has come to a close. AS THERE IS NO HOPE OF SAFETY AND LIBERTY, let US collect firewood and cotton and oil. The best thing for US, I think, is to burn ourselves to ashes so quickly we meet our husbands in the other world. THEY all entered a house, set fire to it, and were burnt alive.

http://books.google.com/books?id=oLyZhTuIczMC&pg=PA299&lpg=PA299&dq=dahir sind&source=web&ots=UUkQEyumyb&sig=DKtSC9PcU3PZc9UiZ0vhL0FLVZQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA302,M1

This is also available in the website http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~makhdoom/chach.html
which says “ Kasim disposed his army, and ordered the miners to dig and undermine the walls….thus the bastions were thrown down. Bai (Maai), the sister of Dahir, assembled all her women, and said, “Jaisiya is separated from us, and Kasim is come. God forbid that we should owe our liberty to these outcast cow-eaters! Our honor would be lost! Our respite is at an end, and there is nowhere any hope of escape; let us collect wood, cotton and oil, for I think we should burn ourselves and go to meet our husbands. If any wish to save herself, she may.”

Does this seem like an individual act of Sati, or a collective act of Jauhar? What about the willingness of the attendants to self-immolate themselves as well, a la the companions of Padmini of Chittor? How many Satis do you know where the sacrificer burns all her possessions with her? Why does Bai say “AS THERE IS NO HOPE OF SAFETY AND LIBERTY”? Why does the Chachnama, per the website above, make mention of the act immediately following “after the bastions were thrown down?

Do you think this could this be jauhar after all?

SURELY BAI’S FEARS WERE UNFOUNDED? THE DEFEATED WOMEN WERE TREATED WITH RESPECT?
And were the queen’s fears unfounded? What fate awaited the surrendered surviving womenfolk? We know what the JediMaster fervently believes. But what about the real world? What did the Chachnama say? What did Baladuri say?

“When the fort was captured, all the treasures, property and arms fell into the hands of the victors. When the number OF PRISONERS WAS CALCULATED, IT WAS FOUND TO AMOUNT TO THIRTY THOUSAND PERSONS, AMONGST WHOM THIRTY WERE DAUGHTERS OF CHIEFS, AND ONE OF THEM WAS RAI DAHIR’S SISTER’S DAUGHTER, whose name was Jaisiya [another manuscript uses Hasna]. They were sent to Hajaj (Governor in Baghdad).

The HEAD of Dahir and the fifth part of the prisoners were forwarded When the head of Dahir, the women, and the property all reached Hajja’j, he prostrated himself before God. Hajjaj then forwarded the head, the wealth and the prisoners to the Khalifa.

When the Khalifa read the letter, he praised Allah. HE SOLD SOME OF THE DAUGHTERS OF THE CHIEFS, AND SOME HE GRANTED AS REWARDS. When he saw the daughter of Rai Dahir’s sister, he was much struck by her beauty and charms.

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~makhdoom/chach.html

When Dahir’s severed head was presented to Hajjaj, a courtier sang: “we have conquered Sindh …. Rejoice, the evil doers are disgraced. Their wealth has been brought away . . . They are now solitary and brittle as eggs AND THEIR WOMEN, FAIR AND FRAGRANT AS MUSK-DEER, ARE NOW ASLEEP IN OUR HAREMS.”

http://sindhjagarta.blogspot.com/2007/12/raja-dahir.html
http://yangtze.cs.uiuc.edu/~jamali/sindh/story/node8.html

Of course, this was a far better fate than the temple priests of Deval . “The governor of Dewal fled, and the priests of the temple were massacred.”

http://www.geocities.com/a_habib/Dada/qasim.html

JM SAYS : “THE QUEEN” DID NOT COMMIT JAUHAR. SHE COMMITTED SATI, PROBABLY UNDER PRESSURE”.

I’ve proved Mai committed Jauhar, not Sati. Also, note above that she was who proposed the Jauhar, she was not persuaded to accept. She also permitted any unwilling woman to retire. So you see, it was not sati, and neither was it “probably under pressure”.

JM SAYS “HHBB QUOTES SELECTIVELY”

Please highlight which quotes you would like me to say. There are reports suggesting Qasim was not a mindless fanatic. After his blutlust abated, he performed commendable tasks of maintaining harmony among all his subjects, both Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim.

There are further reports (albeit very dubious) that Hajjaj himself instructed Qasim not to harm his Hindu subjects and allow them to perform their rites and rituals, provided they paid their extortionate jizzya, and the huge annual revenue to Baghdad was maintained.

Qasim even may have permitted the rebuilding of the Debal temple. His wazir was Sisakar, the ex-minister of Raja Dahir, while his treasurer was a relative of Dahir, Kaksa.
All this is from the Chachnama and Baladuri.

However, remember that both (Chanchnama’s & Baladuri’s account) are Muslim documents, and are highly likely to, consciously or unconsciously, extol their invader’s deeds, curtail his brutality, and denigrate the enemy.

Though the Chachnama is refreshingly candid, it is not completely free from bias. While extolling Chach and Dahir for their bravery, it nevertheless firmly claims these heathens went to hell !! Further, there is no proof at all that the Deval temple was rebuilt during his reign, even though the Chachnama claims so.

And how does this stack up with the bloodthirsty image of Qasim that even the Chachnama has to admit :
“The Musalmans entered the town … protection was given to the artificers, merchants and common people … but he sat on the seat of cruelty and put all those who had fought to the sword. It is said that about six thousand fighting men were slain, but according to others sixteen thousand were killed.”

After Multan held out for over two months, Qasim captured it by employing treachery. Six thousand defeated warriors were put to death, and all their relations and dependents were taken as slaves. Qasim allowed his army to have the whole of the spoils.

Excerpts from “The Arab Conquest of Sind” by Mohammad Habib
http://www.geocities.com/a_habib/Dada/qasim.html

As such, I don’t ‘quote selectively’. Claiming ‘calling Hitler a monster without balancing it by mentioning he was vegetarian and kind to animals’ is stupid. I don’t do that.

I quote ‘relevant facts’. Hitler was a monster. Full stop. As are all belief systems mirroring his.

JediMaster commented (in the TERROR OF HYPOCRISY) about the posting on Sindh. He thought it was full of lies !! This is to prove contrarywise.

GIST OF JEDIMASTER’S COMMENTS : (edited by me) “HINDUTVAVADIS SKEW HISTORY, THEIR MOST IMPORTANT TACTIC. ONE SIMPLE E.G., HHBB POSTED (IN POST: IMPERIALISM ARGUMENT) A VERY DETAILED AND ESPECIALLY SELECTIVE HISTORY OF SINDH. ALL ONE NEEDED TO DO WAS A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH TO SEE HOW FULL OF “LIES” IT WAS. I DID TRY TO COMMENT ON THIS BUT IT DIDN’T SHOW UP ON THE BLOG SITE).”

Since I, HHBB, posted that history, you are welcome to direct your comments at me.

I am very surprised at your claim, as I did not hear from you after I presented that post on Sindh to you. If you tried to post a rebuttal and it did not appear :
1. did you try posting it again?
2. did you contact GB asking if there was a technical hitch?

This would have helped in getting it posted.

About ‘my lies’, please point out where my ‘lies’ are, and I will indeed consider if my facts need updating or changing. If you cannot come up with any valid ones, you should retract your allegation.

Let’s start with your point about sati below.

EMC3 Mian,

Listen up. If we needed Islamist propaganda, we would all watch QTV.

I have to hand it to you. You are very consistent with the rest of your ilk when it comes to brazen Taqiyya propaganda.

Lets examine your Taqiyya carefully:

1) “Hindus left Kashmir of their own will.”

How true. Only those that resisted the forced exodus were subjected to some very subtle, persuasive hints from their “freedom-fighting” brethren:

- Being gangraped and sliced in half with a saw-mill (Ms. Girija Kumari Ticku)
- Being tied to a cot, doused with kerosene and burnt alive (Mrs. Soni)
- Having their tongue chopped off, a hole drilled in the head with a power drill (Mr. Durga Nath Rafiz)
- Skinned alive (Mr. Pushker Nath Koul)
- Skin peeled off, mouth stitched with a needle and thread (to prevent him from screaming) and finally strangled with a rope (Mr. Brij Nath Shah)
- Strangled with steel wires (Mr. Zinda Lal Pandita and Mr. Jagar Nath Pandita)
- Ashok Kumar Qazi was surrounded by a pack of Muslim hounds when he was found in the local market doing some shopping. He was shot in his knees, fell down in utter agonising state and started screaming for help from all present on the scene. He was thoroughly known to all the Muslim shopkeepers who never felt kindly to intervene with a view to saving him from the Muslim butchers. They tenaciously held that his killers were fighting for Islam which meant death for the Kafirs. The Muslim killers led by Bitta Karate drew pathological pleasure from Qazi’s agonies and in sheer glee started singing and dancing. They plucked out his hair, slapped him incessantly in the face and spat at him out of absolute contempt. One of the Muslim brutes opened his trousers, flaunted his genitals and pissed over him. Meanwhile the siren of a police jeep could be heard from a distance and the killers pierced him with a barrage of bullets. They melted away as victors in the Muslim dominated locality and Qazi’s bullet-riddled body was lying for hours together on the road covered with blood-stained snow. (Mr. Ashok Kumar Qazi)
- Cheeks cut off with knives, face smashed with rods, tortured for days, chopped into pieces (Mr.Shyam Lal Shalla)
- Tortured for 4 days, eye-balls gouged out, tongue hacked off, legs chopped off below the knee, hair pulled off, skin burnt and finally beheaded (Mr. Jia Lal Kaw, his wife, 2 daughters and 1 son)
- Nailed through the forehead (where he had applied the Tilak mark), burnt by lighted cigarettes, limbs broken, eye-balls gouged out with knives and finally hanged from a tree (Respected Scholar and Poet Mr. Sarwanand Koul “Premi” and his son Virendra Koul)

If I may request you to look into the eyes of these dead Hindu cowards and others (from the photographs in the online book below) and brazenly repeat your Taqiyya again:

http://www.kashmir-information.com/WailValley/B2chap8b.html

2) “In fact we were all supporting them and begging them not to leave.”

I am sure you were. I am also sure you were not among the tens of thousands of our neighbours, classmates and friends who flocked night-after-night to midnight marches (juloos) to intimidate the Kashmiri Hindus into . In these rallies, my “brethren” held mashaals (flaming torches) and cheered masked “freedom fighters” firing from Kalashnikovs, as they snaked their way through various Kashmiri towns and villages, banging on the doors of Hindu homes and screaming in unison to the cowering, terrified Pandits inside

Where were you then?

3) The Kashmiri Muslims threatened Kashmiri Pandits with death and destruction, allowing them no lee-way, frightening them to quit and buzz off, stressing the establishment of the Prophet’s governance and exposing low levels of cultural achievements. The threatening slogans:

· Kashmir main rahna hai, Allah-ho-Akbar Kahna hai.
(If you choose to live in Kashmir, you will have to say Allah-o- Akbar).

· Asi gachi Pakistan, Bata ros ta batanev san.
(We want Pakistan along with Kashmiri Hindu women, but without their men-folk).

· Allah-o-Akbar, Musalmano jago Kafiro bhago, jehad aa raha hai.
(Allah-o-Akbar, arise and awake Muslims, buzz off infidels, jehad is approaching.)

· Kashmir kya banega – Pakistan
(What will Kashmir be – Pakistan)

· Zalimo O, Kafiro, Kashmir hamara chhod do
(Ye cruel Kafirs (infidels) vacate our Kashmir)

· Yahan kya chalega, Nizam – e – Mustafa
(What will have sway here – Prophet’s governance)

· Arise ye, fearless Momins,
For Russia has lost the race,
Now the sword hangs on India’s neck
Now it is Kashmir’s turn.

· Islam hamara maksad hai
Kuran hamara dastur hai
Jehad hamara rasta hai.
(Islam is our destination
Koran is our constitution
Jehad is our way.)

· Hamein kya chahye, Nizame Mustafa
Kashmere main kya chalaiga, Nizame Mustafa
Hindustan mein kya chalaiga, Nizame Mustafa
(What do we need – Prophet’s governance. What will
have sway in Kashmir – Prophet’s governance.
What will have sway in India – Prophet’s governance.

· Ganga-Jamuna mein aag lagayenge
(We will destroy Ganga and Yamuna)

4) Just a recap of the tragedy of the Kashmiri Hindus:

Aftab, a local Urdu newspaper, publishes a Press release issued by Hizb-ul Mujahideen, set up by the Jamaat-e-Islami in 1989 to wage jihad for Jammu & Kashmir’s secession from India and accession to Pakistan, asking all Hindus to pack up and leave. Another local paper, Al Safa, repeats this expulsion order. In the following days, there is near chaos in the Kashmir Valley with then Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah and his National Conference Government abdicating all responsibilities. Masked men run amok, waving Kalashnikovs, shooting to kill and shouting anti-India slogans. Reports of killing of Hindus, invariably Kashmiri Pandits, begin to trickle in; there are explosions; inflammatory speeches are made from the pulpits of mosques, using public address systems meant for calling the faithful to prayers. A terrifying fear psychosis begins to take grip of Kashmiri Pandits.

Srinagar, January 19, 1990. Mr Jagmohan arrives to take charge as Governor. Mr Farooq Abdullah, whose pathetic, whimpering, snivelling Government has all but ceased to exist, resigns and goes into a sulk. Curfew is imposed as a first measure to restore some semblance of law and order. But it fails to have a deterrent effect. Throughout the day, Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front and Hizb-ul Mujahideen terrorists use public address systems at mosques to exhort people to defy curfew and take to the streets. Masked men, firing from their Kalashnikovs, march up and down, terrorising Pandits. As evening falls, the exhortations become louder and shriller. Three taped slogans are repeatedly played the whole night from mosques: “Kashmir mei agar rehna hai, Allah-hu-Akbar kehna hai” (If you want to stay in Kashmir, you have to say Allah-hu-Akbar); “Yahan kya chalega, Nizam-e-Mustafa” (What do we want here? Rule of shari’ah); “Asi gachchi Pakistan, batao roas te batanev san” (We want Pakistan along with Hindu women but without their men). As the night of January 19, 1990, wears itself out, despondency gives way to desperation. And hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Pandits across the Valley take a painful decision: To flee their homeland to save their lives. Thus takes place a 20th century Exodus.

Those who refused to leave were massacred, raped and tortured. It goes to the credit of the Kashmiri Hindus that we did not raise a finger in retaliation against the Muslims who wiped them out from our homeland. We practised Gandhi-giri and look what happened to us.

You have the gall to label the Kafir victims as ‘cowards’ after doing what your ‘valiant’ Ghazis historically do best. Why am I not surprised?

Selective amnesia is indeed curable. Hence my advise to you to get yourself some help. Forgetting 5000 years of Kashmir’s Hindu civilisation and denying your Hindu forefathers’ genocide is not easy, is it?

Is it hard trying to brush under the carpet the wanton slaughters & forcible conversions of one’s noble forefathers and erasing of the refined Kashmiri identity during Islamic occupation?

Are you in denial? Are you ashamed and would rather not speak about it?

Or do you somehow justify their genocide by the invaders (as some Pakistanis do, by cheering Ghaznavi and Aurangzeb as their heroes) by convincing yourself that your ancestors were all living in Jahiliyah and hence, they definitely deserved what they got?

Tsk…Tsk…seems like you need to see a shrink for your Stockholm Syndrome, as well.

No clothes were stolen in the first place. Kashyap had merely mislaid them under the wrong rock.

But he enjoyed being au natural so much, that he got rid of the clothes forthwith and started basking in the sun.

err..as per the story – Rishi Kashyap’s clothes were stolen. After strenuously denying that kashmir has a shared culture, you agree to the view that an Indian has stolen from another Indian So what next – kashyap turned into kashyapuddin and started agitating for freedom

Anyway, continuing the joke..

After the Indian Representative had made his point, the US representative (but ofcourse) interjected, “Hey wait a minute! If the Paki didnt exist then, who stole the clothes?”

After a poignant silence in the hall, the guy in the corner whom no one had paid much attention to till now, said, “It was, my dear friends, the Indian who stole the Kashmiris clothes”
(/Joke)

A bit of inside humour regarding the “disputed” region to which Pakistan lays claim.

An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly that made the world community smile.

A representative from India began: ‘Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Rishi Kashyap of Kashmir, after whom Kashmir is named.

When he struck a rock and it brought forth water, he thought, ‘What a good opportunity to have a bath.’

He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water.

When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Pakistani had stolen them.’

The Pakistani representative jumped up furiously and shouted, ‘What are you talking about? The Pakistanis weren’t there then.’

The Indian representative smiled and said, ‘And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech’