The blasts are a conspiracy to divert attention from the cash-for-votes scandal. It is not an off-the-cuff remark. I mean what I say,” Ms Swaraj told reporters here.“Attacks in two BJP-ruled states in a span of two days and within four days of the UPA government winning the trust vote have some meaning, and what I am saying is proved by enough circumstantial evidence,” Ms Swaraj said.
When asked if she was pointing fingers at the Manmohan Singh government as being behind the blasts, she said: “I have said what I wanted, it is for you all to interpret the rest. [link]”
And with this the BJP, under the inspirational leadership of Advani, has officially gone off the deep end. To the stellar achievements of Ms. Swaraj, which include saving the moral fiber of the nation by butchering bharatiya-sabhyata-and-sanskriti-denuding scenes from “Wide Sargasso Sea” and “Lake Consequence”, has now been added the glorious distinction of publicly endorsing the viewpoint of the Arundhatis and the Haskars that Jihadi bomb blasts are actually government conspiracies to discredit the minorities/its enemies. (Mercifully she did not confirm whether the Government of India and Israel actually caused the Tsunami, which is what an Egyptian news outlet once claimed)
From now on, when our liberals and apologists and our friends from across the border blame all acts of terror on the Indian government and by extension the majority Hindu population, they can say “Not just us, but even the Hindu right wing attest to the fact that terror attacks are done by the Indian administration”.
And so, thanks in no small part due to the certificate from the BJP, all the Jihadis—the SIMIs and the HUJIs — can now be argued to be as innocent as the diaphanously-clad Ganga, played by Mandakini, in “Ram Teri Ganga Maili” who had become sullied “papiyon ke paap dhote dhote”. [replace “papiyon” with the “government 
of India”]
Shocking though Ms. Swaraj’s statement was, considering how the BJP under Advani has become a train wreck of the magnitude of “Love Story 2050”, it was hardly unexpected. On the issue of the nuclear deal, which was about national security and the forging of a strategic alliance with the US against the enemy states that surround us (causes that the BJP has traditionally endorsed) it bit off its own tail by making common cause with its bete noire—the Marxists.
The reason was obvious.
Humiliate the UPA government at all costs.
Of course in the process, it was the BJP and Advani in particular who got thoroughly humiliated—first getting outmaneuvered by the machinations of “Singh is Bling” Amar Singh and then taking the “jaani isi ko kahete hain superhit” mukka of mega-proportions from “Singh is King” Manmohan straight on the chin.
The Leader of Opposition, Shri L.K. Advani has chosen to use all manner of abusive adjectives to describe my performance. He has described me as the weakest Prime Minister, a nikamma PM, and of having devalued the office of PM. To fulfill his ambitions, he has made at least three attempts to topple our government. But on each occasion his astrologers have misled him. This pattern, I am sure, will be repeated today. At his ripe old age, I do not expect Shri Advani to change his thinking. But for his sake and India’s sake, I urge him at least to change his astrologers so that he gets more accurate predictions of things to come. [link]
Ouch !
Here’s the deal. When even Manmohan Singh can own you, you have indeed hit rock bottom. Time for some introspection. And yes most importantly, Ms Swaraj, some silence.
Honestly.
{last image courtesy the BBC}
The Greatbong Blog & Podcast 
a size 10 foot, I must say.
I want a Iphone this time…G3.
Rishi is new man with a new phone. Breaking news = Rishi has embraced Islam. He has accpeted Koran as ultimate truth.
Arnab – you have to feel bad for Advani. He is tied down by a suicidal RSS that wants to foist a joker for party president and a behenji of its own. Unless he takes control of the party, we are looking at the possibility of coalition governments that put our forgotten decade (90s) to shame.
Congress has gotten smarter after seeing Rahul baba make no impact anywhere. They want to put MMS front and center in the 2009 election. In spite of four amazingly inept years, MMS and Chidambaram are more saleable to urban middle classes than Swaraj type extremists and even the family. It also serves makes sonia and rahul baba seem holier than thou while Advani is caught in a war of words with a puppet PM.
Not the first time she has spoken off stupidly. Last time she literally had a “hairy escape” after the general elections.
The best thing would be to ignore people like Sushma Swaraj and Raj Thakre.
@breaking news
aaah…the tablighi jamaat makes a entry at arnab’s blog.
Arnab,
My thoughts exactly: during 2005, I had to research on the BJP’s achievements in foreign policy. They left a record of abysmal failure in nearly every sphere except US-India relations. These folks actually started on the nuclear deal. There have been a few changes, but they had been informed about them. Thus, the whole ‘anti-India’ matter is irrelevant. I refuse to dignify their Communist allies’ stance of ‘nationalism’ with a response.
Assuming the Colonel Blimps and their friendly minions across the western border are the major sponsors of terrorism in India, the BJP Government’s policy weakness resulted from their assumption that the Muslim minority is a fifth column of Pakistan. This exacerbated their notion that Muslims in India could be appeased via foreign policy gymnastics (read: bending over backwards) with Pakistan. Consequently, their Pakistan policy was ineffectual, if not self-destructive with regards to the Kargil War. Also, due to this assumption, the self-perception of the members of government was that of illegitimacy in their dealings with Pakistan, Kashmiris, and Indian Muslims. So, they compensated with a policy of appeasement, best symbolized by the Kargil War and Mr. Azhar’s (sp.) handing over in Kabul. This appeasement was punctuated by the Machiavellian pogroms in Gujarat, designed to mobilize their base.
When, in the words of Omar Abdullah, the enemies of most Muslims in India are the same prosaic ones as most other Indians: poverty, ignorance, and disease. Most Muslims, as most Hindus, are least bothered about foreign policy equations. They are more worried about the demon on their back; call it the system or the establishment.
Sidebar: I do not appreciate the well known ‘secularist’ credo for various reasons, including the fact that it has become a blanket apology for every casteist, ethnic, regional, and outright obscurantist politician in India. Worse still, the term is used by the Anglicised Babalog of Delhi to justify their crumbling control over the political system. Laws cannot be based on dogma, whether it be ‘secularism’ or ‘Hindutva’. Laws have to apply to individuals based on ‘general, indeterminate, and universal’ standards, if we are not to recreate a hierarchical and segregated society.
Vasabjit
It is true that BJP has exhibited some high caliber idiotic stunts to attack the government. They had already lost it with flashing of currency notes, and now with their ridiculous stand on terrorist attacks, they are down under. Advani uncle, a ripe (or rotten) mango that he is already, looks like, won’t be able to see a BJP government in this life.
“When even Manmohan Singh can own you, you have indeed hit rock bottom.”
i don’t agree with this.
this is a guy who the entire middle class of india owes its new found prosperity to.
not just technically qualified, i think manmohan singh has proved himself to be politically shrewd way beyond anyone gave him credit for. he gave advani and karat the jack of their lives by personally engineering a coalition with amar singh.
he is genuinely one of the most under estimated people of India. the anil kumble of the political world.
also:
just when you think the BJP can sink lower, they better sergi bubka in reverse.
one would have thought their conduct in parliament was shameful enough.
Wasnt it Sushma Swaraj who pulled off Mala-d ads from DD because her daughter thought they were candies?
Why the Hell cant it be true….
In their heydays of Power,Congress has started communal riots to change Chief Ministers…
And why is the so called secular media not showing us the tapes of the bribing scandal?
All said and done,BJP is much better than the Congress!
Whatever little respect I had for BJP dissappeared with Sushma Swaraj’s comments. I mean, how low can a political party go in an election year?
BJP could have come out of this N-deal fiasco with dignity amidst left’s cheap and immature political sense. They could’ve used the fact that BJP is in power in the terror-impacted states to their advantage by showing some efficiancy on the invstigation front, which in turn would’ve been great campaign fodder for the election.
But they have chosen to crash and burn instead. I hope that BJP’s loss leads to Congress’s gain and a teeny-tiny ray of hope towards a single party government.
The BJP had it all served to them on a platter. The crumbling stock markets and the rocketing prices were fuel enough to burn the government.
Add to that the fact that love-hate allies the Congress and the Left were on ‘i dont wanna see your face’ terms. I mean nothing gets better than this.
Yet, incredulously enough the they nosedived. I support the point that BJP is much better than the Congress. But at this rate it seems a really far-fetched notion to see the saffron brigade come to power soon.
Frankly, in today’s days of coalition govts, no one govt is better or worse than the other, at least so far as UPA, vs NDA is concerned, for I have serious reservations with a possible UNPA/third front governance. The problem is that power-sharing equations give too much muscle and voice to small, mostly regional parties, that keep the govt hostage and mostly always miss the bigger picture in national interest. BJP and Congress basically do the same kind of good things and bad things, but it’s the regional politics, the RSS Left DMK SP BSP et al that swings the balance. The only reason Congress is a little preferable over BJP can be seen in how the last four year front page headlines have been about policies economics and sensex rather than Hindutva and communal nonsense any paper in the NDA tenure was littered with.
Even then, BJP is ineffectual and stupid under the current leadership, and let’s not forget it was the media that constantly aired the “BJP-led states” question before anyone came with a statement despite Advani trashing it. Still, this attitude is unpardonable. No govt ever sponsors mass bombings, not even in India. Dont take away the credit from the SIMIs and the IMs or they’d get annoyed and make more noise to be noticed.
Often its seen that people who always has all the solutions to a problem are actually a problem themselves. This would be a perfect way of judging the current BJP leadership. It turns out that Advani & BJP considers the sole reason of being in the opposition bench is to topple the ruling party. Why..? Becoz they only have the best knowledge of India’s every aliments and its most soothing cure.
Manmahon Singhs govt may not be a loud mouth, brazen, sword wielding bunch of macho men. But surprisingly its vulnerability seems to be most appealing to me. Its acceptance of making some faulty policy and learn from it may be its strength.
I am so sick of this “I am always right… rest of you are dumb ass” kind of attitude in US and also now in India.
Vasabjit wrote:
“…the BJP Government’s policy weakness resulted from their assumption that the Muslim minority is a fifth column of Pakistan. This exacerbated their notion that Muslims in India could be appeased via foreign policy gymnastics (read: bending over backwards) with Pakistan”.
Rishi’s resp:
Thats a very interesting observation you make. But I think the BJP is less a culprit here, compared to other governments before them, the most notable being that of IK Gujral.
Still, the Vajpayee government wanted to use the mandate of being a pro-Hindu party in power, to create a paradigm shift in India’s approach to relationship with its Islamic neighbour. Lack of experience and individual magnanimity showed through with unfortunate results.
Your dabbling in Gujrat riots, is quite peurile, and not expected from a professional like you.
Today, Ms. Swaraj says she stands by her statement, but it should “not be taken as the view of the BJP”.
Well, that’s alright then!
Political hara-kiri, thy name is Sushama!
I would really like a nice alternative to the “Hand” for the next elections. Unfortunately, the “Lotus” is hell-bent on proving itself to be an incompetent and impotent force.
And I refuse to accept the mad lady from the northern state as my PM.
One reason why the BJP still is a better choice for some
Cong struggles to catch up as BJP rallies RSS for relief operations in Karnawati
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/341675.html
AHMEDABAD/KARNAWATI, JULY 28: Far more organised, the BJP and the cadre-based Sangh outfits were quick to reach the blast victims soon after the blasts tore up East Ahmedabad on Saturday, while the Congress was trying to get its act together.
rest of the article..read the link
@Rishi: The riots in Gujrat were absolutely based on electoral equations. Read Wilkinson’s book, “Votes and Violence” for a detailed analysis. Of course, Congress has done/instigated the same in previous years. Riots and pogroms can be carried out without the religious label. These can include the “Bangali Khedao” movement in Assam, or the “jabar dakhal” movement in West Bengal. However, one unpunished murder does not justify another.
Moreover, there is an assumption that the BJP cadre and the leadership are the same, when you are considering response times. They were at some point of time, through the eighties and uptil the end of nineties. The party elites have become disconnected, especially after they came to power in 1998. The reason is rather staid: corruption. The BJP government, starting from its allied Environmental minister to the PMO was reportedly mired in corruption. They continue to hanker for more of the same.
This has resulted in a continued fracturing between the right-RSS (organization) wing and the BJP-VHP wing. By the way, Modi belongs to the organization wing, which is assiduously kept out of power in the center. The continuing internal problems with leadership election/selection is proof positive of it.
One last question, which countries are the pro-Hindutva people in this conversation from? The reason being that Pakistanis can come into conversations to polarize them, thereby self-fulfilling the notion that all Indians are crafty Hindus wanting to dominate them! Just a question, eh!
Cheers,
VB
@ VB
The Gujarat riots had little to do with electoral equations. In fact, the electoral equations developed as a consequence of the riots at a later stage.
VB wrote:
“This has resulted in a continued fracturing between the right-RSS (organization) wing and the BJP-VHP wing”.
Rishi’s resp:
Rapid increase in the support base and access to political power structure, does lead to dilution of organizational integrity. But it is not as pronounced as it is made out to be.
VB wrote:
“One last question, which countries are the pro-Hindutva people in this conversation from? The reason being that Pakistanis can come into conversations to polarize them, thereby self-fulfilling the notion that all Indians are crafty Hindus wanting to dominate them! Just a question, eh!”
Rishi’s resp:
One has to fear that “Pakistanis” will use this conversation to polarize, in order to “prove” that Hindus are “crafty” domineers?
The polarization already exists at a global level. Any educated reader, will take very little time to figure out the depth of conversation, vis-a-vis, rhetorics and facts.
I did not get something here – why did the bombs in Surat did not blast ? were they put up for display – to make the hide and seek game more interesting. And what is a bomb doing on a tree top – an unusual place to hide bomb for maximizing damage but a good angle for mass display.
Frankly, I have no reason to deny the circumstantial evidence that Sushma Swaraj has put forth – other than the fact that it was sounding inhuman – at least till both the bombing and the Cash for vote scandal is resolved.
I am sympathetic towards the victims – but my point is totally different if you can understand.
@ anything
Why bombs were up on trees?
Because it maximizes the impact of the explosion (ideally, if 6 to 8 ft above the ground. The shrapnel spread and shockwave damage is maximum at this height.
Military grade ordnances (like shells and aircraft launched bombs) are often set to blow 6 ft above the ground (using baromtric fuses).
The jihadis have done their research.
@anything and that kailash
Going by the same logic.. can we claim that kargil war was in fact started by BJP to get sympathy votes in the general elections?
either we accept both these hard-to-digest facts that our politicians are inhuman or we realise the fact that we are indeed talking utter BS
Is old age affecting Advani ? I think in our country we are facing a serious shortage of Vajpayee like leaders. It’s a pity that Rajesh Pilot, Madhavrao Schindhia and Pramod Mahajan passed away before peaking in their political careers. I’m not saying this out of regional bias, but I think India could really do with a Netaji (minus his socialism) at this point in time as it’s PM.
That was under-the-belt by Swaraj. Total cheapshot. BJP would do well without emotional fools like Swaraj.
There was an interesting column by Vinod Mehta sometime back. (Just for the record I don’t like this Mehta guy really). He reported how Arun Jaitly was exasperated by Sushma Swaraj’s foolish and emotional outburst after UPA win in 2004 elections. (The famous going bald stunt)
If only Sonia had taken the reigns, that halo would have been eliminated long back. Consider this – for all the failures of this governments(mis)rule, her reputation has largely remained unaffected. All the shit is being taken by Manmohan while Madam and her family largely remains un-tainted.
Sonia has enjoyed power all along without accountability. That’s like having best of both worlds.
If only BJP could learn better politics.
@Rishi: First, how do you defining the ‘globe’: a geographical entity, the entirety of the human race, or the literate section, or the section subscribing to a notion of civilization outside of their quotidian existence? Second, what do you mean by polarization? Do you mean political differences, creation of social cleavages, a combination of both or the concept that identities are formed by relationships of economic production? Please, give me a few proxy variables by way of which polarization can be measured. Finally, what empirical evidence do you have for the existence of the polarization? Please, provide statistical evidence, I shall even accept survey research scores, on this topic.
In case my questions are construed to be digressing from the discussion on the BJP statements, I want to make the reasons clear. I argue that the latest attacks attempt to instigate this exact polarization by crystallizing Muslim and Hindu identities as abstract all encompassing identities that are mutually opposed by their very definition. It also assumes that people subscribe and practice, therefore, instantiate this opposition. When, in reality both Muslim and Hindu identity exist as quotidian, ever changing, constructs based on changing political, economic, and social interaction. Therefore, accepting polarization based on reified identities as an assumption is to locate the policy debate in a dogma. This is what has happened to the debate on abortion in the US. Both sides believe that they are morally right, the other side either obscurantist or unethical.
Therefore, let us open this box to reason.
By the way, which countries are people provoking this thesis from? I am from India, Calcutta. We ought to know about biases when making objective statements, right, that is, as good researchers, social scientists, etc.. So, let us table our origins to prevent devious manipulation by Pakistanis and other Muslim interests.:)
Cheers,
VB
Just when you think the BJP idiots can’t be stupider they outdo themselves…look at the choices we have for the next government:
1.Sonia madam and Rahul baba Amar Singh
2.Mayawati Prakash Karat
3.L K Advani Sushma Swaraj…god help us Indians…
I have to disagree that BJP has hit rock bottom. BJP has won 80% of the state elections held in tha last two years. I dont know how you guys can complain about BJP.
Congress is indeed a very weak party relying on “brain-dead & pathetic” parties like Left, SP, RJD.
I am also not surprised that Bengalis & Muslims detest BJP?
I am not telling that BJP is “THE PARTY”. But it is anyday better than a spinelss Congress party.
@ VB
My assumption of the “globe” is a overlap of
“the literate section” with specific focus on “the section subscribing to a notion of civilization outside of their quotidian existence”.
The latter being a subset of the former.
By polarization, I mean a clearly defined “social scism”, arising out of socio-political, economic, ideological differences.
In this particualr instance, the ideological pan-islamic ideology overwhelming the others decisively.
I think that your assumption, about this event, is oversimplified, for the event itself is a result of the polarization, that never ceased in the first place (only punctuated with individual events).
Our previous discussion (about 7 months back) regarding Bangladesh and its creation is worth recalling.
Identifying generational polarization, as a a assumption to locate political debate is not dogma but realism.
The debate on abortion is based on the subjective definition of morality and conscience, quite different from our discussion.
To answer your last remaining question, I am originally from India.
Live in Washington DC.
I am not agree with Sushama Swaraj. And not belive on any politician as my country’s PM right now. Think about my people who were suffer from bomb blast where were those politicians at that time? what were they doing that time.
Statement made by Mrs. Swaraj is indeed foolish. However it is just an expression of anger that Indians are feeling towards this government’s inept handling of terrorism and its soft stand on the same. One day I ring up my friends in Bangalore to know if they are well and the very next day I have to ring up my sister in Ahmedabad to know whether they are safe. Damn whats the government for? What it is doing?
@ Vasabjit
I don’t understand what research u did on BJP’s foreign policy? After Nuclear tests, respect for India grew up several notches in the international community. Kargil was a war and it couldn’t have been avoided by any other government. But the main point is that the aggressor was defeated conclusively and every single inch of our territory was wrested back from Pakistan. BJP improved India’s relation with Israel without angering the Arab states. Regarding the Kandhar case, do u seriously believe this UPA govt with or w/o Commies would have done anything different, namely refused to release the terrorist. If u think so, you are living in the fool’s paradise.
Regarding terrorism, this government has repealed the important anti-terror law the POTA. It is delaying the death sentence of Afzal Guru. The police and other agencies have been asked to go slow on terror related investigations so as not to anger the Minority community.
Not surprisingly, Congress and its allies are being defeated in state after state. My biggest fear is an all out attack by Pakistan before the next elections (and hopefully coming of BJP led Govt). There are renewed skirmishes at the border right now. I sincerely doubt the ability of this spineless government to defend our territory.
@ VB
Acknowledgement of importance of Islam as the sole factor for the existance of Pakistan (whether failed state or not), is of paramount importance to the world.
Be it the resistance and eventual reversal to further Islamization in the subcontinent (demographic and political), or the establishment of a favorable geopolitical role, vis-a-vis, the role of Hindus (and by extension, India); identification and a procative approach to this scism bodes well for everybody concerned.
Post-sept 11, world is beginning to recognize this.
cheers
Rishi Khujur
@Aditya
“I am also not surprised that Bengalis & Muslims detest BJP?”
Just for the record, in the recent Kartnataka assembly polls BJP’s vote percentage was 33.9% (see http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3072673.cms).
In other words almost 2/3rds of people DID NOT vote for it. So kindly add kannadigas into your statement too. And lest I forget add the remaining south indian states as well because they don’t have any significant legislative presence of BJP.
And I agree BJP has not hit rock bottom yet, just wait for some more time.
@VB
“I argue that the latest attacks attempt to instigate this exact polarization by crystallizing Muslim and Hindu identities as abstract all encompassing identities that are mutually opposed by their very definition. It also assumes that people subscribe and practice, therefore, instantiate this opposition. When, in reality both Muslim and Hindu identity exist as quotidian, ever changing, constructs based on changing political, economic, and social interaction. Therefore, accepting polarization based on reified identities as an assumption is to locate the policy debate in a dogma. This is what has happened to the debate on abortion in the US. Both sides believe that they are morally right, the other side either obscurantist or unethical.
Therefore, let us open this box to reason”
Dude you totally sound like the ‘architect of the matrix’!!:)
@DumbGraduate
In a first past the post system, vote share doesn’t matter. In the whole history of independent India, no party has got a vote share of more than 50% ( I think Rajiv Gandhi got it, but not sure). So this brandishing of rubbish figures that 2/3 people didn’t vote for BJP is bullshit. Congress also had similar vote share, so by your logic, Kannadigas dont like congress as well. What about JD(S), a regional party whose share was even lower ?
@anonymous coward
“Congress also had similar vote share, so by your logic, Kannadigas dont like congress as well”
Yes ofcourse they don’t and can’t you see that from the current state of congress!
And if vote percentage is not a way to judge LIKING OR DISLIKING (I have no problems with WINNING or LOOSING on the basis of seats) by a whole community as Aditya claims then what is it according to you? And if kannadigas as a whole really like the BJP then why didn’t 2/3rd didnt vote for them?
@Dumb Graduate….
BJP never had a presence in Karnataka, it was always dominated by congress and morons like devegowda. But if you look at the growth of BJP in Karnataka and the voter demographics across the state, you would understand that the 34% is a huge number. BJP has lost out in areas where gowda has paid money, liqour, land to the ppl.
(And if you check those numbers 85% of literates in the state have voted for BJP)
So my “learned” friend, stop using numbers to degrade BJP. (Moderated)
@Aditya,
85% literates.. where did you pull that number out of? “literates” an euphemism for upper caste cons who can’t tolerate anybody other than themselves in power.Gowda gets your goat because he doesn’t give a hoot to your upper caste antics.
Everybody knows how hotblooded and foolish you BJP leaders look at state and national level. Advani, Yeddy… They are just mirroring their core constituencies’ hand-wringing… hah hah..
If you want to play holier than thou, chuck out Sriramulu and other thugs from your dear party and then let’s see how well BJP’s treasury functions.
@Aditya
“BJP never had a presence in Karnataka, it was always dominated by congress and morons like devegowda. But if you look at the growth of BJP in Karnataka and the voter demographics across the state, you would understand that the 34% is a huge number.”
Yes I am not contesting the claim that its not a huge number but you still can’t say bengalis as a whole hate BJP (I agree Muslims as a whole would come to nearly 100% in hatred of BJP) because outside bengal, we don’t know how they vote. Yes, they may hate it more or like it less but just as 67% kannadigas go on the voting day and choose to vote for another party even after seeing BJPs sign on the voting list, probably 85% (may be much less depending on how many seats BJP puts candidates up) of bengalis also do the same.
Let me tell you that in the adjoining state of Bihar, many prominent bengalis helped support BJP in the dark days of 1990s (Jagbandhu Adhikari even managed to be a BJP MLA from katihar, with high concentration of muslims, see http://archive.eci.gov.in/se2000/pollupd/ac/candlwc/S04/S04BJPAcnst.htm). He later went on to become deputy speaker in Bihar vidhan sabha. And there were many others who stood up to Lalu and indirectly helped BJP (and erstwhile Samata Party). So you see kindly don’t make that kind of generalization.
“So my “learned” friend, stop using numbers to degrade BJP. (I would be really surprised if you aren’t a Muslim)”
Regarding my views please go through the last post of GB. Thank you for calling me ‘learned’ even if sarcastically 🙂
And here goes our great Peeta-Rum Khichdi (Comrade Sitaram Yechury)..
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=&id=01df1389-faab-4549-8b60-5ebb8d4b6f46&MatchID1=4727&TeamID1=2&TeamID2=3&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1191&PrimaryID=4727&Headline=Collateral Damage&strParent=strParentID
No surprises about ‘root-cause’ and ‘palestine’ in this article 🙂
@d0tslash…
Your comments are laughable dude….you are telling me that you would prefer a corrupt to the core and useless leader like gowda to BJP?
I can name a dozen names of Congress, JD, SP, RJD leaders who are goons and have gone to jail many times.
I am surprised with your hotblooded comment on BJP Leaders, you would not have said it if you had follwed the Karnataka Elections. BJP was the only party that went to elections on a growth & development agenda. Gowdas state was deplorable while Congress was spineless and till date they do not have one strong leader in the state.
You would not find people better than Yeddi & Ananthkumar to govern the state.
Bottomline- Congress is inept to lead State or Centre (No strong leaders Bad Coalition partners)
BJP is the only good alternative that India has got.
@Aditya:
http://ia.rediff.com/news/2008/may/27kgovt1.htm
Look at the 18 MLAs from Cong with a criminal record in Karnataka….oooops they are all from the BJP. 🙂
Pot calling the kettle Gowda? Foot in mouth?
First, you still have not given me any way to measure polarization on a civilizational scale, that is, no proxy variables have been presented. Also, you have not presented anything but anecdotal evidence to support your points. What about some empirical data that correlates your variables? You can deliver a probit analysis perhaps, in case you are using survey data. As you have made the original claim, therefore, you need to defend your argument; we need proof.
“My assumption of the “globe” is a overlap of “the literate section” with specific focus on “the section subscribing to a notion of civilization outside of their quotidian existence”. The latter being a subset of the former.”
So you mean the literate Muslims who believe in Pan-Islamic ideology? Or, do you mean the Islamic masses who are led by the literate Muslims who believe in Pan-Islamism? The first, are a minority in the entire Muslim populace. If the literate section believes in Pan-Islamism, then arrest them and/or re-educate them.
The second considers that it is not Islam per se, but the role of the literate elites, who may want to attain or retain power in the community or dominion over other communities, which increase terrorism. This is an instrumental argument, not a primordial one. You are blaming the elites, not the religion.
“By polarization, I mean a clearly defined “social scism”, arising out of socio-political, economic, ideological differences.”
This is interesting indeed because you have picked up the broadest definition of a ‘schism’ or cleavage structure. Now, I argue with you based on two points: first, by broadening the definition to this extent, you have made it applicable to almost anything, therefore, inapplicable as a bounded concept that can be applied; second, since you have accepted the role of power structures, and production relationships, how can you merely rely on primordial definitions of identity to forward your argument, when it assumes that there are other mechanisms of ‘schism’ or cleavage formation that are equally internally and externally ‘valid’.
“In this particualr instance, the ideological pan-islamic ideology overwhelming the others decisively.”
I do hear a lot about Pan-Islamic ideology, actually, mostly from my Pakistani friends. It may be perhaps because every other Muslim derogatorily call their Pakistani brethren ‘Hindu-Muslims’, therefore, Pan-Islamism may be a self-compensating mechanism. Now, Pan-Islamic culture does not exist when you study individual Islamic societies. Consider the most intimate of law and justice issues: women’s rights in Morocco, ante-bellum Iraq, and Lebanon. In all three societies, the rights and social obligations of what it meant/means to be a woman were based on a mixture of a specific interpretive school of Islam, laws from the ancien regime, laws from the colonial/mandate period, and laws imposed by the post-colonial governments. All these laws had very specific notions of what it meant to be a woman in an Islamic society, yet they vary considerably. So, there are theological, chronological, geo-spatial, and philosophical differences. You may argue that I generalize from an n of 1, that is, I extrapolate from one arena the general characteristics applicable to all Muslims. However, consider that women’s rights is central to private law, property rights, contract law, statutory law, and the debate between ‘progressive’ and ‘conservative’ notions of society.
“I think that your assumption, about this event, is oversimplified, for the event itself is a result of the polarization, that never ceased in the first place (only punctuated with individual events).
That never ceased in the first place? Could you, please, clarify this point? Do you mean this polarization was eternal, it started without human agency? How can polarization, an inter-relational concept start and exist without human agency?
“Our previous discussion (about 7 months back) regarding Bangladesh and its creation is worth recalling. Identifying generational polarization, as a a assumption to locate political debate is not dogma but realism.”
I continue to argue against the basic assumptions on which you construct your arguments. Also, assumptions can be used for any debate, I agree with you, but your assumptions must be open to scrutiny. You can either use assumptions based solely on their highly general explanatory power and not on their external validity; these are known as unrealistic assumptions. Or, you can use externally valid assumptions that have less scope in terms of explanation, but give more accurate explanations. You could justify your assumptions as of the former type, but your notion of civilization necessitates questions of external validity.
“The debate on abortion is based on the subjective definition of morality and conscience, quite different from our discussion.”
If you think that Islam and other religions have different perspectives on morality, then you too subscribe to a subjective definition. Now, if you consider that one perspective ought to dominate because it is correct or the only ways, then you are evaluating based on ‘objective’ criterion. However, since it is you, not I who thusly evaluates, and you are embedded in your own social and religious realities, your objectivity is subjective.
“To answer your last remaining question, I am originally from India. Live in Washington DC.”
Good, but look at how your answer is divided into two sentences, which reveals that though you originally come from India, your new identity, the identity that you stress on enough to deliver a latency effect on the reader, is your position in Washington DC. Now, the question is whether you are an Indian or an Indian in Washington DC? Are these two concepts the same, then why have the label of Non-Resident Indian, for example?
Anyway, I retire from this debate, as I do not intend to dominate it further.
VB
My interpretation of Granny Sushmaji is this – “Why must I not assume that indeed BJP themselves planted the bombs in their own state to blame the center?”
“Ooooh, now thats unthinkable” would be her reply “che che! I am the moral guardian of your late night TV, and u blame for organizing this!”
Well whatever I was saying – long and short, BJP needs to get rid of Sushma and Advani, and give the mantle of its head to Modi. Pronto.
This is the first time that I’m reading your blog. I’m an instant fan!
@Anonymous
That is not good news for Aditya.
And Aditya where did you pull that 85% number? I am sorry I was unable to locate any such record.
@ Vasabjit
While I presentthe data in a detailed mail, some comments on our points of agreement
Vasabjit wrote:
“If the literate section believes in Pan-Islamism, then arrest them and/or re-educate them”.
Rishi’s response:
Lets go ahead.
Vasabjit wrote:
…Now, Pan-Islamic culture does not exist when you study individual Islamic societies.
Rishi’s response:
As highlighted many times before, Pan-Islamism exists in the common hatred of the followers of Koran against those that are not. Again, the discussion on Bangladesh might remind you a few things.
Vasabjit wrote:
Now, the question is whether you are an Indian or an Indian in Washington DC? Are these two concepts the same, then why have the label of Non-Resident Indian, for example?
Anyway, I retire from this debate, as I do not intend to dominate it further.
Rishi’s response:
Now before you get into any further hairsplitting analyses of why I wrote it in two sentences, let me clarify that my philosophy and appraoch to issues has changed considerably as I have travelled around the world and have been exposed to different views and ideas.
The fact that I mention Washington DC, is because, this city has been a signifact thought provoker for me, in terms of giving me access to knowledge on issues that otherwise, I would not have access to.
A detailed analysis to follow soon.
Anonymous,
The majority of the charges against the 18 BJP MLAs (out of a total of 110 BJP MLAs) in Karnataka are: “Unlawful assembly, rioting, member of unlawful assembly”.
You do know that the police can foist these bogus charges on anyone leading a protest march or defying police lathi-charge
If these charges (and the other charges) weren’t bogus, then why didn’t all the Congress and Janata Dal regimes of Karnataka dare to convict these so-called criminals in the past two decades?
That’s because they were spurious charges and the local courts would have thrown these charges out in a jiffy.
This journalist Vicky Nanjappa’s bias against BJP was obvious in his articles.
Vicky did not bother to come up with a similar list of criminal Congress MLAs or criminal Janata Dal MLAs in Karnataka, did he?
@Ninna Aji/Aditya,
Nice. So charges against BJP= framed by police. Charges against Congress= they deserve it. Recent bomb blasts= UPA behind it. Attack on Parliament= Anyone but BJP behind it. Anyone who points out anything against BJP= biased. Anyone else= Not biased.
I know that rioting is not an offense in the eyes of the BJP so some part of your logic I do get.
@Aditya,
your response clearly outs you. My “learned” friend, you say Yeddi AND Anantamurthy are the only …
How can you even put those two in the same sentence? All that masturbating to BJP must have made you blind to the rivalry between the two. They can’t even stand each other.
Yeddi is a Lingayat and Anantamurthy a Brahmin. They are *never* aligned about anything. While you were busy blaming Gowda and sons for not handing over the reigns to Yeddy, who do you think was working in the background to make sure that whole incident was handled most ineptly by the BJP Central… Nobody other than the illustrious Anantu.
This is politics, my dear learned one! nobody *gives* anything. If JDS wasn’t ready to give away the keys on the agreed date, BJP should have seen it coming. They were sitting on their hands.. no.. they were fighting between themselves so much that they did not have a strategy to TAKE the power from JDS.
Kumara bungled up his chances of becoming a CM again for a long-time to come by going back on his word. People of karnataka have punished him for it. But, he was also a much dynamic politician than Yeddy. Yeddy is all angry-oldman and no stuff.
In Karnataka, BJP has no leader worth following. JDS is being punished for its slip between the cup and the lip because *Appearing* honest is very important for the so -called NON-“Literate” people. They may not understand the nuances of politicking but they do understand what it is to go back on your word.
The aam-janta forgives a politician who made a few bucks for himself. Who doesn’t. But, the political shelf life depends a lot also on how *clean* you appear.
For all the ad-hominem attacks against Gowda, can you quote him or even his sons saying things like what Sushma ajji has said or even Advani?
He is a rude man, but only to the newspaper and media-wallahs. You “learned” ones can’t identify with him because he is not “Urbane” like you and doesn’t sell snake oil to your communities.
@ Vasabjit
Quoting Pew Global Survey 2005
How followers of Koran view relationship with the rest of the world
In Morocco, 84% feel Islam needs to be more powerful in global
In Jordan 73%
In Pakistan 70%
In Indonesia 64% (a country recently converted to Islam relative to others)
If followers of Koran feel that Islam is under threat
Jordan and Morocco where 82% and 72%.
Lebanon 65%
Pakistan 52%
Indonesia 46%
Turkey 58%
Remember, Vasabjit, in all these countries, non-Islamic populations have been converted largely into Islam.
QUOTING PEW GLOBAL SURVEY FURTHER
“Substantial majorities in all but one of the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed – including as many as 85% in Indonesia and 75% in Morocco – say that Islam plays a very large or fairly large role in the political life of their countries”.
in Turkey has the proportion of those seeing a large Islamic political influence increased substantially, from 46% in 2002 to 62% currently.*
Further, large majorities in most of these countries welcome the idea of Islam playing a greater role in political life. Here, the exceptions are Turkey, where half of those who see Islam playing a greater role say this as a bad thing; and Lebanon (32% bad thing).
*PLEASE NOT VASABJIT* Lebanese Muslims and Christians divide on this issue; Muslims who believe Islam’s political role is increasing are unanimous in thinking this is a good thing, while Christians mostly view this as a negative development (71%).
Those who see Islam playing a greater role differ as to the reasons for this. In Jordan, a majority (58%) among this group attributes Islam’s larger role in politics to growing immorality in society, as do pluralities in Morocco and Turkey. Indonesians are divided, with a narrow plurality citing growing immorality”.
Vasabjit, I am not going into the historical context atall, as HHBB, Hujur, Myself have dealt in detail about that here.
I rest my case.
apologise for the spelling errors.
@dotslash- There might be infighting among BJP (which party doesn’t)?
If you know JDS, you would know the friction between the gowda brothers. That is not the point though. As far as devegowda is concerned, he is the most corrupt politician india has ever had. Yeddi might not be charismatic, but sure has a honest history behind him and has worked hard to become CM.
I believe Karnataka can benefit only with a single party at the helm (be it Congress or BJP), it is the JDS which was hampering Karnataka’s growth till now. I am happy that Karnataka ppl have not given that leverage to Gowda and his sons.
I am not a fan of BJP as perceived by you, but i believe that NDA is far better than a COngress led UPA which has the likes of left, RJD & SP.
@ the BJP:
1. in my opinion the biggest achievement of the BJP was the appointment of Kalam as President. I cannot believe Pratibha Patil was chosen to follow a person of that stature.
2. I also think the delinking of Pakistan from India’s foriegn policy was a stellar achievement.
3. The nuclear test was total cock. All right wing parties wanna play with the big toys. It’s like Iran right now. the entire prestige of the country is hinged on the nuclear programme forgetting the fact that petrol is being rationed there and they’re one of the biggest producers of oil.
4. In my experience, the BJP of Karnataka is a different kettle of fish. It enjoys support from muslims.
however, my truck with the BJP is their general attitude. it cannot be said better than sounak. This “I am always right… rest of you are dumb ass”.
Because of this:
1. they have walked out or prevented Parliament from functioning on numerous occassions. they sat with their fingers on their lips pulling one stunt like that after the other culiminating in that cash display during the trust vote.
2. they do not let other people speak on televised debates (in particular Pratap Singh Rudy).
3. they have been an irresponsible and unconstructive opposition.
4. they attacked the homes of their MLA’s who voted who defected. no other political party did this.
i really think that if they come to power everyone will have to shut up. that’s what the BJP represents now: violent intolerance of dissent.
—
irrelevant aside:
also, modi advani and jaitley do not enjoy the support of the Sangh Parivar. (modi for example did not allow bandhs for the amarnath yatra in gujarat. may i also say his handling of the terrorism situation has been stellar. sadly, that raises questions about what he was doing during godhra)
The Sangh like fucks like Rajnath Singh. They even tried to sabotage Modi’s re-election. This is what is going to prevent the BJP from realizing its true potential, india’s oldest problem- factionalism.
Slashdot
The “clean images” that Gowda and his clan have projected is, to an extent, because of the rocket toddy they hand out. Dynamism, they show in sleeping in parliament and cheating in public. We, Indians and especially Bengaloorians, do have a way of justifying what is served ‘at’ us is what we asked for – And then of course, since urbane people are exempt from the nuances of the complicated simplicity of unlearned politics, it is blasphemous to tarnish the image is a mannina maga. So kindly adjusht maadi.. But some self-stroking that!
to tarnish the image of a mannina maga
(Wall Street Journal) Muslims in India do not even pay lip service to integration
A survey by the distinguished Pakistani scholar Akbar Ahmed revealed that most educated Indian Muslims view as role models the late Islamist ideologue Abul Ala Maududi, the 19th century Muslim supremacist Sayyed Ahmad Khan, and an influential Bombay-based cleric named Zakir Naik, who eulogizes Osama bin Laden and calls for Shariah for all Indians.
============================================================
India’s Counterterrorism Failings
By SADANAND DHUME
FROM TODAY’S WALL STREET JOURNAL ASIA
July 29, 2008
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121727252464290655.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
In recent years few countries have changed their public image as dramatically as India. But though pictures of starving peasants and rutted roads have given way to those of svelte supermodels and bustling call centers, in at least one respect India remains more a basketcase than a potential great power. As Friday’s bomb blasts in India’s software capital, Bangalore, and Saturday’s in the industrial city of Ahmedabad show, India is singularly ill-equipped to deal with the scourge of terrorism.
Reuters
Too little, too late: Forensic personnel inspect the site of a bomb blast in Ahmedabad on Sunday, July 27, 2008.
The Bangalore and Ahmedabad bombings, which killed one and 49 people respectively and cumulatively wounded more than 200, are only the most recent in a spate of attacks. In the past two years terrorists have targeted the northern city of Jaipur, the high-tech hub Hyderabad, the temple town of Varanasi and India’s financial capital, Mumbai.
Officials have pinned the most recent attacks on Indian Mujahedeen, a homegrown group linked to the Bangladesh-based Harkat-ul Jihad-al-Islami and the banned Students Islamic Movement of India. Both Pakistan and Bangladesh — carved out of British India to create a homeland for the subcontinent’s Muslims — give shelter and succor to terrorists. But the fact that the most recent attacks were carried out by a made-in-India group shows it’s about time that India comes to terms with its own counterterrorism failings.
Among India’s worst mistakes is that instead of uniting behind the minimal goal of providing security for all citizens, India’s constantly bickering politicians have played football with counterterrorism policy. In 2004, one of the first acts in office of the ruling Congress-led coalition government — at the time supported by Communist allies — was to scrap a national terrorism law that allowed for enhanced witness protection and extended detention of suspects in terrorism cases. This had the twin effects of demoralizing law enforcement agencies and signaling to terrorists that the Indian state lacked fight. The paucity of arrests and convictions in the string of bombings that have followed have only strengthened this perception. For its part, the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party has stalled the creation of a much-needed federal antiterrorism force.
The problem is that India’s counterterrorism effort falls between two stools. As a democracy, it cannot adopt the heavy-handed but effective measures favored by, say, Russia or China. At the same time, India lacks the sophisticated intelligence and law enforcement capacities that allow European countries such as France, Spain and, of late, even Britain to safeguard individual rights and yet uncover terrorist plots before they are executed.
Yet although this may be an explanation, it’s hardly an excuse given that other countries have surmounted their own counterterrorism hurdles. Even Indonesia, a Muslim-majority nation where public sympathy for terrorism in the name of Islam runs deeper than it does in India, has done an infinitely better job of protecting its citizens. Thanks largely to Detachment 88, a special police unit equipped and trained by Australia and the U.S., it has been nearly three years since the last major terrorist strike on Indonesian soil.
Ultimately, though, terrorism is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. The larger question is whether India’s Muslims will embrace modernity like so many of their Turkish, Tunisian and Indonesian co-religionists, or reject it like increasing numbers of their militant cousins in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
On this front too India’s leaders have failed to get to the heart of the matter. The country tends to exercise a hands-off approach to its 140-million-strong Muslim community. Unlike in Europe or America, Muslims in India are governed by Shariah law in matters such as marriage, divorce and inheritance. This parallel legal system slows integration into the national mainstream and perpetuates backward practices such as polygamy and the neglect of education for girls. The result has been a disaffected minority, largely lacking the skills to compete in a modern economy and susceptible to calls for violence in the name of faith.
If India is to live up to its potential — and indeed to its hype — it must embrace both the short-term goal of upgrading its counterterrorism capability and the long-term goal of modernizing and mainstreaming its Muslims.
India’s Muslims have enriched national life in countless ways. The vast majority, like people of any faith, are nonviolent. But contrary to popular belief, Indian Muslims have not been immune to the rising global tide of orthodox practice and militant politics. Indian doctors played a role in last year’s failed attacks in London and Glasgow. At home, Muslim groups have assaulted critics such as the exiled Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen. A survey by the distinguished Pakistani scholar Akbar Ahmed revealed that most educated Indian Muslims view as role models the late Islamist ideologue Abul Ala Maududi, the 19th century Muslim supremacist Sayyed Ahmad Khan, and an influential Bombay-based cleric named Zakir Naik, who eulogizes Osama bin Laden and calls for Shariah for all Indians.
India’s Muslims hardly have a monopoly on either violence or obscurantism. Nonetheless the challenges they face are particularly acute. Will the community be forward-looking, eager to seize new economic opportunities, and at peace with a rapidly changing world? Or will it forsake the future for an idealized past, foster a culture of grievance that condones violence, and view globalization as a mortal threat? Depending on the answer, the Bangalore and Ahmedabad bombings are either a passing event or a dark harbinger of things to come.
Mr. Dhume is a fellow at the Asia Society in Washington D.C., and the author of “My Friend the Fanatic: Travels with an Indonesian Islamist” (Text Publishing, 2008).
@Rishi:
1: you have given me results from a survey, whose validity I do not know. Whose replicability I have not evaluated. Whose basic statistical operations, and issues such as sampling error, selection bias, etc., you have not told me. What were the questions asked, using what language? Who translated the languages? who were asked the questions, and by whom (foreign of domestic interviewers, male of female), and at what time of day, in what income bracket? You have just given a set of numbers.
2: So, says someone in a newspaper (Mr. Dhume), a reputable newspaper, but someone’s opinion. If it was not someone’s opinion, it would be a statement of fact, which would be open to a libel suit. Someone’s opinion, remains just that: an opinion, not a statement of fact!
You know, I am rather tired of people passing opinion as fact, as evidence. the problem affects everything from 10 Janpath to Capitol Hill. However, we have come to accept it as normal. We have come to accept spin as a way of life in the Rovian reality. As an academic, I say, speak, but speak with evidence. People disguise themselves on the internet, away from the reality of India, away from where they can see the effects of their mindset, and go on and on spitting communal venom. I have seen Kashmiri immigrants who openly stated their support for the LeT and other groups, even stated that they supported them with money. I have heard such rants from Sikhs, who continue to relive the Punjab insurgency and fund groups spitting venom against India based on factual fallacies and selective memory. But, does that make it right for us? Have we reduced ourselves to their status? We have the law, and we can create more transparent enforcement mechanisms that are neutrally applied. I agree that law enforcement should be devoid of political influence. However, to blame the core values of a community, of every innocent woman and child, for creating hate, without an iota of introspection about our deeds, about the greed and domination that exists in our exalted value system, is rather presumptive don’t you think?
VB
Vasabjit wrote:
”
….you have given me results from a survey, whose validity I do not know. Whose replicability I have not evaluated. Whose basic statistical operations, and issues such as sampling error, selection bias, etc…
But, does that make it right for us? Have we reduced ourselves to their status? We have the law, and we can create more transparent enforcement mechanisms that are neutrally applied. I agree that law enforcement should be devoid of political influence”.
Rishi’s response:
Vasabjit:
I gave you the most detailed information (P.E.W report 2005) publicly available, covering the maximum sampling that has ever been done in the Koran believing world, covering the largest deviation range.
We have to work with the most detailed information available at our disposal.You as a professional in this field, know that better than I do.
Just like you are tired of people passing opinions as facts, I am tired of people overlooking reality and facts, and almost suicidally considering them as conjectures. I would never say though that you are one of them, for I know your background and appreciate the work people like you do.
As for “reducing ourselves to their level” question, that will always remain a moral dilemna in the civilized world. And civilizations have come and gone trying to answer that question.
Let me take the liberty of asking you to re-read the Bhagavat Gita with that question in mind.
how did u get that news paper clipping regarding tsunami conspiracy,i am sure there is enf masala for a bollywood movie to be directed by anil sharma
@rishi: are you a citizen of the United States of America or India? As declared by your passport.
VB
Vasabjit,
I have seen Kashmiri immigrants who openly stated their support for the LeT and other groups, even stated that they supported them with money. I have heard such rants from Sikhs, who continue to relive the Punjab insurgency and fund groups spitting venom against India based on factual fallacies and selective memory. But, does that make it right for us? Have we reduced ourselves to their status?
Interesting. Can you please cite your source for this? especially for the Kashmiri immigrants’ support to LeT et al –> (assuming you are talking of Kashmiri Hindus (pundits) i nthe context of your last reply).
I am not refuting that this may indeed be true (subject to the source it is coming from). But you seem to to be missing an apparent point – the part that starts with “because”. The hint: cite where they derive their inspiration from – as you see it?
I am not blaming the entire community – alls am saying is that misdeeds have been happening – and based on the inspiration derived from the literature of this one particular religion. If you dont think this is true, then there is no use in trying to convince each other.
The other obvious “why not, then, all people are like ‘that?'” has been beaten to death. So lets try and avoid that can of worms.
Sorry I just saw your “I have seen”. No more comments.
@Onechance:
Certainly not the Hindu Pundits, their plight is unimaginable. I am talking about Kashmiris from PoK currently residing in the US. I, in fact, asked Sashi Tharoor in 1996/97 (then still at the UNHCR or just reassigned) about the Pundits. He was clueless or refused to answer. My problems with his UN Sec. Gen. nomination started from that time.
@ VB
U mean Fai and Farook Kathwari types?
🙂 Sashi Tharoor hehehe
Aah the digression… This comment section reminds me of Rediff message boards.
@ Dr. Zakir Naik:
i used to love watching his sermons on QTV (which has strangely disappeared off late).
He has a lisp and his invective is similar to Daffy Duck. He goes like ‘spho Allah hasph sphoken..’.
My favourite was his scientific justification of polygamy (all mammalian societies have extra females, except of course for India). Also Jay Leno has nothing on the ‘official islamic way to wear a coat’.
i miss QTV.
Well, it’s sad that the BJP under the likes of Sushma Swaraj has gone so deep down. I remember being a fan of this party especially in the 1998 nuclear test era, more so because of people like Vajpayee and Pramod Mahajan.
I wonder what a nice party to support in India :). Guess we need more people like this – http://www.lok-paritran.org/, though I have not read much of their ideology and can’t comment on their credibility.
The sad truth is that even if educated people become leaders, they are sure to succumb to party and coalition politics. However, if greatbong runs for Prime Minister, I’ll vote for sure 🙂 .
Kudos to Sushmaji. She has said what needed to be said. The Congress party, it should be understood is not sqeamish about using violence for achieving political ends. In fact, the party has used violence with such consummate skill and with such telling effect one wonders whether this is not a terrorist outfit masquerading as a political party. The terror tracks of the Congress party all over the place, nobody can deny it – the butchering of Sikhs in the ’84 riots, the terror unleashed on the entire nation – the judiciary, the bureaucracy, the media during the emergency, the training imparted to the LTTE – one can go on and on. The BJP is being ridiculed for telling the truth, but does that change the truth. After all smiliar ridicule and scorn was poured on those who opposed the flat earth paradigm. Terror is the trade mark of the Congress party.
Dear Vasabjit Banerjee,
It’s interesting you mentioned the “jabar dakhal” movement in West Bengal, which turned Hindu refugees from East Bengal into impoverished squatters. These starving Bangaal refugees were manipulated into becoming permanent vote-banks for the CPI(M), thanks to another Bangaal – Mr.Prasanta Sur (first Communist Mayor of Kolkata and a subsequent state-level minister)
Its important to understand the psyche of Prasanta Sur, as it may provide us a glimpse into the psyche of these Communists who fled from East Bengal and took dictatorial control of the destiny of West Bengal.
The Communists ran from Muslim mobs in East Bengal as fast their legs could carry them, with their tails carefully tucked between their legs and without a whimper or fight. Only in India, did these mice have the guts to come out and roar like hyenas.
“Rai Saheb” Nagendra Kumar Sur, an eminent lawyer in Noakhali, was killed like a dog by the Muslim League faithful. (Read his eye-opening story below, from “India Today”).
His son, Prasanta Sur fled to West Bengal and like millions of other Bangaals, joined the Communist Party en masse.
Just imagine what their plight in East Bengal/East Pakistan/Bangladesh would have been, had they not left. Their convert cousins (including Golam Azam and Bangla Bhai) would have butchered them just like they massacred the brave Hindus who stayed behind.
These Communists’ forefathers were hunted like dogs in Bangladesh and were killed, converted or driven away to India.
And what do these Commies do again? They lick the feet of those very killers. They allow Bangladeshi Muslim infiltrators to cross over to India in the millions and provide them readily with Voters ID Cards and Ration Cards, thereby dealing a “double whammy” on India by:
(i) swelling the ranks of “the Believers” in West Bengal and creating a Lebensraum for the complete Islamisation of India
(ii) nullifying two things that the Hindus took for granted post-partition viz: demographic security and freedom from a total genocide.
With the Muslim population of West Bengal at 28% and rising, where will YOU run to, now? This time, there will be no “other” Bengal to run to.
See: http://www.bengalgenocide.com
————————————————————–
Article: “Eastern Exodus”
Author: Swapan Dasgupta
Publication: India Today
Date: January 21, 2002
Rai Saheb Nagendra Kumar Sur was a leading lawyer of Noakhali in East Bengal in 1946. When the pro-Pakistan riots broke out that year, he was kidnapped by a Muslim League gang, taken to a lonely spot and asked to dig his own grave. Sur told his abductors that since he was going to be killed in any case, there was no reason why he should oblige them. He was bluntly told that if he obeyed he would die swiftly, otherwise death would be slow and painful. Sur is said to have obliged. He was then beheaded.
Sur’s son is Prasanta Sur who fled to India, joined the Communist Party, became a stalwart of the refugee movement and was even mayor of Calcutta. When Tathagata Roy met him on a number of occasions to talk about the refugee experience, he preferred to be silent about his father’s brutal murder.
A refusal to reopen a family trauma could be a reason for this silence. However, assessed in terms of how at least two generations of Hindus from erstwhile East Pakistan reacted to Partition, a different conclusion is inescapable. An entire community, it would seem, went into a state of denial about its collective misfortune. It was almost as if the victims were desperate to pretend that a horrible ethnic cleansing hadn’t taken place in East Pakistan. A community that was in the forefront of militant nationalism during the freedom struggle was cornered into forgetting the assaults on its dignity.
Roy’s polemic on the post-Partition trauma in Bengal attempts to grapple with this phenomenon. He goes over the history of the exodus of some six million Hindus from East Pakistan-it didn’t happen at one go in 1947 but was spread over 25 years-and locates the wilful denial of the past in a spurious reconstruction of the state’s Hindu-Muslim relations. He narrates a forgotten story of how intimidation, rape, murder and religious terror contributed in the dispossession of Hindus after 1947.
Roy is not a professional historian and his work is often marred by an imperfect handling of evidence and shoddy editing. Despite these shortcomings, this is an important book. Whereas the horrors of Partition have become a trendy theme to beat the Indo-Pak peace drum in north India, its fallout in the east has been greeted with squeamishness. Roy’s book not only explains why but also offers sufficient leads for others to take the story further.
————————————————————–
You may have heard of Prof. Tathagata Roy’s book. It’s called “My People, Uprooted – A Saga of the Hindus of Eastern Bengal”
I invite you and other GB readers to critique Prof. Tathagata Roy’s book which is available to read online – free of cost – at: http://bengalvoice.blogspot.com
West Bengal can only improve when Left is kicked out by the people, but am not sure whether the bengali people would do that. It is one of the biggest mysteries of Indian politics, “How come bengali folks allow Left to rule them and **** the state royally”?
Brainless git.