Thoughts on the UP Elections

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Uttar Pradesh has historically exerted great influence (some may say undue) over national politics, having been the home of some of our most influential politicians. Which makes its politics fascinating, if not for anything else than for its impact on the Delhi throne. For the last ten years, UP politics can be looked upon, very simplistically, as a punch-counter-punch battle between two large voting blocs—-the OBC(Yadav)-Muslim combine represented by Mulayam “Netaji” Yadav and the Dalits represented by Maya “Behenji” Wati with each side trying to muscle on each other’s turf while trying to tip the scales by poaching the Bramhin and higher castes from the BJP. Kind of like Montagues vs Capulets, but with criminals, rifles, wrestlers, elephants, statues, mandir and India’s only royal family added for good measure.

For me of course what has been the most fascinating is how the Congress and the BJP have been, once again, relegated to third and fourth position-scrappers in what has historically been their “headquarters state” and how this marginalization reflects generally on the moribund state of our biggest national players.

The Congress has many problems, perhaps none more than the fact that its focus has almost entirely been on creating a stage-managed success for Rahul Gandhi, a task that is even more difficult than getting Abhishek Bacchan to deliver a hit. This time they rolled out the entire royal family, making UP a whirring circus of helicopters, plastic smiles and photo-ops. Digvijay Singh tried his best to rile up the Muslim vote-base by blubbering Batla-Batla-Batla  but it is difficult to quite drive home the point of Muslim victimization when it was your government at the center that was responsible for what happened there. Salman Khursheed also tried gamely, like a kindly uncle swinging his arm around for a bowl at the family picnic, but the Congress was never in it to win. The best they could hope to get would be a manufactured triumph for Rahul Gandhi (“Look he increased the number of seats”) . They did do better than last time, increasing their seats by a whopping 6 (from 22), which was as impressive as Dad hiring 3 private maths tutors and Junior then coming with his report card and saying “Dad, half-yearly I got 2 out of 100 and this time I got 8″. What was more telling than this increase in seats was that even in the pampered home constituencies of the Prince and the Queen, they were decimated. Yes Frodo has breached Mordor and it would take a special kind of chutzpah, not that the Congress does not have a lot of it, to claim it that the royal family has the people’s love when they cannot hold their own castle.

Talking about losing safe constituencies, the BJP lost Ayodhya. If this does not convince the BJP honchos that the Mandir is no longer an issue, then I don’t know what will. The BJP at its height had great leaders—-Vajpayee as the centrist moderate statesman and Advani as the rabble-rouser who could get the base behind him. Now no one knows what they are—Jinnah fan-boys, impossibly old men nodding away in a world that has spun past, a party without an issue or a cogent strategy against the Congress, except saying “We are not the Congress”. This time, they tried to make another Kalyan Singh (who used to be their greatest OBC-vote-puller) out of Uma Bharati and Mayawati-friend-turned-foe Babu Ram Kushwaha. It did not work. The BJP actually lost 4 seats and this despite Mayawati’s social contract with Bramhins collapsing in the later part of her rule, when she aggressively returned to her upper-caste-baiting roots in order to rally the base around her. Very very sad.

It is perhaps the biggest tragedy when one needs to point to Samajwadi Party and say “That’s how you should do it.” Akhilesh Yadav, young and unfettered by history, was able to make a case that this time Samajwadi Party would be different from the English-hating, computer-bashing, gun-firing party of troglodytes that they were known to be. Then of course they do this, immediately after coming to power, showing that some things stay the same. But at the very least, they were able to project, perhaps disingenuously,  something moderately fresh and even in the caste-and-religion-stove-piped landscape of UP, with tenuous alliances and violence that simmers below the surface, it was perhaps this hope, which combined with anti-incumbency, led to the BSP getting unseated from its elephant.

National parties, kindly note.

 

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94 thoughts on “Thoughts on the UP Elections

  1. And yet again a balanced and well informed article covering all aspects of the story. I am of the firm opinion that between the roles of satirist, humourist, fiction writer and essayist that you don, the serious, well researched columnist is head and shoulders above the rest (which are at very high standards to begin with).

  2. Unleash the Lion!!

    Polarization would drive the shit-scared seculars to vote en masse for Congress, giving them 200 seats in 2014. On the other side hindu fanatics will make BJP touch 200. Who will form govt will depend on who is SLP. The race in 2014 is not for majority but who can become the SLP between Con and Bhajapa even if by one seat.

  3. Congress won Faizabad (Ayodhya is part of it) in 2009 elections. It has been for quite some time that BJP lost its bastion in Ayodhya. Also, Ayodhya was not a local issue.

  4. well informed? 3 questions

    1. just batla? what about israel?
    2. ayodhya loss? who won? is ayodhya a constituency in itself?
    3. uma = kalyan? kushwaha = maya’s foe. or equal?

    3 more, not mentioned in piece

    1. future of social schemes like nrega?
    2. lack of alternatives / feudal mindset?
    3. delimitation with muslims getting increasing say in 120 constituencies + changed demographics?

    another piece meant only for loyal fans, mostly outside India who have no clue of ground realities – a collection of facts only. Smita Prakash writes better, you should stick to “disturbing horror” stories and cricket

  5. As cited by experts, one of the reasons for the poor show by BJP-Congress in UP was lack of local leaders. Congress brought Rahul while BJP brought Uma Bharti (both outsiders. Even Congress’ chief organizer Digvijay is also an outsider). Could it be that big parties actually don’t want any strong local leader in UP? Because if any strong leader emerges in a state like UP, at this stage would automatically throw a direct challenge to the established brigade in Delhi. The way BJP has been cutting leaders like Kalyan – Rajnath – Kalraj etc. to size in UP, it seems they really don’t want anyone to get settled in UP. It’s also interesting to see that these parties equate success in UP directly with prime-ministerial material. That’s the reason why Congress pushed Rahul too hard, while BJP didn’t ask Narendra Modi to campaign in UP.

  6. People do not have a choice other than swinging like a pendulum, do they?
    Who knows, five years later Mayawati might be back.
    I think Congress still has time to do some damage control if they put their brains to it. They still have 2 years and that is a long time as far as public memory goes. 2014 will be interesting.
    I really hope SP change their image in U.P. 5 years later, if all the cycles are wrapped in plastic sheets, it will be a very sad sight.

  7. I think congress and bjp do not have enough members or workers on ground Big leaders without foot soldiers are nothing…At one time BJP did have foot soldeirs on ground and hence used to win. I fear, national parties will fizzle out in few years as thier local base is eroding quickly. Is it good in long run for united India, dont know !

  8. Regarding Ayodhya, the message could also be ” build the temple or we’ll do this”… Not that I care one way or the other but who knows?

  9. I had to idea who Akhilesh Yadav was. So, I turned to Youtube and Wikipedia, the two most trusted sources of information on the internet. I caught two interviews with the young man. Each approximately 20 minutes long. Of those 20 min, 12 were spent asking questions like “Are you better than Rahul Gandhi?” or some variation of that, 7 min asking “Are you the next CM?” and about a minute talking about issues. They were abject and show clearly how awful things are in India when it comes to politics. Indians get governments they deserve.

  10. If the results truly represent people’s mandate (assuming the polls were conducted fairly), then this result was not at all surprising for me. Reasons:
    1. BJP is like a misfire. A bullet which has no direction. People dont really care about religion and community anymore.
    2. Congress cant fake it anymore. Wearing khadi and spending nights in huts wont impress anyone. People might still be illiterate but not innocent and dumb anymore.
    3. BSP cant flash its parks and elephants anymore. People are not blind and Dalit pride is all good but as long as the people dont have food to eat 3 times a day, it wont work. Its the time of Roadies and not ethics of BR Ambedkar. Dalits have given up on the change they were expecting from Bhenji.
    4. SP with the usual fake promises but this time in English. Crime scene hasn’t changed drastically and people dont care for gang wars. Who cares if 2 gangsters die. Moreover people with the attitude that Chalo, lets try imli ki chatney this time instead of pudine ki chutney.

    Some fascinating stuff I found lately at http://myneta.info/
    More than 50% of candidates in UP did not even had a graduate degree. Many of them were just 8th Class pass. And the icing to the cake was one Dr. Subodh Kumar contesting from Noida with a Doctorate degree but also with a criminal case for attempted murder … http://myneta.info/up2012/candidate.php?candidate_id=3977

  11. @dribler..dude, u giving too much credit to him for his cricketing acumen..arent you?
    btw BJP losing fort in ayodhya, congress in amethi and raw bareily…cannot be coincidence

  12. Re Ayodhya

    The Samajwadi Party’s Brahmin candidate won, apparently because 22,000 votes by polled by the independent hijra candidate. So I guess the people of Ayodhya were quite fed up with the BJP.

  13. Nice article Arnab.
    Development is not an issue in UP. Development of only a small section of the population at the cost of another IS.
    In the big picture, it is in the interest of the so called “secular parties” to divide the Hindus along every and all possible lines, and go for a united Islamic vote bank. They will continue to do so, and that woudl lead to some serious geopolitical problems in India’s future.

    BJP’s biggest failing in UP has been its inability to arrest SP+BSP+Congress, efforts (each in its own way) to break Hindus along caste lines and unite Muslims along Islamic hardline, over the past 10 years.

    The Hindu unity that BJP had painstakenly achieved, during the Janmabhoomi movement, between 1990-2000, was slowly taken apart in the 2000s…one election at a time by SP, BSP and Congress. Each time BJP thinkers and leaders bickered, allowing themselves into beleiving that in UP their core Hindutva vote is already with them….and if only they pander to one more pseudo-secularist talking-point, they might just gain a little bit more.

    In doing so, BJP not only lost its core audience but failed to gain any new pseudo-secular/casteist audience. Because whether it is playing caste poltics or pseudo-secular politics, the BSP or the SP or the Congress was already one step ahead of it, because thats all they do.

    As for the future, BJP has to realize that the Modi model of corruption free progress + honest Hindutva is what BJP’s strength is. Those who have a problem with either will anyway not vote for BJP anyway.

  14. There are a few fixed voting blocks in UP Dalits will vote for Mayawati , Yadavs will vote for Mulayam no matter what. BJP also has its fixed voting block, but it is small and confined to urban pockets these people are also most likely not to show up on polling day.

    Rest all change their vote depending on who reaches out to them, last time it was mayawati who reached out to Brahmins and she won, also it helped that mulayam has let the yadav goons free in UP casing widespread disenchantment.

    This time it was Mulayam who reached out to all non dalits, also helped by the fact that in last couple of years mayawati gave up her social experiment and fell back on dalits and corruption was high. Plus with Azam khan back he got back a lot of muslim vote, not like he used to get in 90’s but sufficient to see them through.

  15. As Amit says, people did not really have much choice and 5 years later may end up giving Behenji the same opportunity. Between SP and BSP none have any worthwhile agenda except so called social engineering. Will not waste time talking about INC and BJP here.

    Coming specifically to development or lack of it, at close to 200 Million people (5th largest if it were a country and all that) it is just too big to manage cohesively. Also anyone who has spent any length of time in different parts of the state will surely agree that each region has it’s distinct identity, characteristics and needs. There is no way you can speak of Deoria/Gorakhpur/Basti/Varanasi in the same breath as Lucknow/ Kanpur/Unnao/Sitapur/Hardoi, or Ghaziabad/Meerut/Moradabad belts.

    My point is that bifurcation of the state into Purvanchal, Awadh, Bundelkhand et al is an idea whose time has surely come. Does carving of new states always lead to development and riches? Not necessarily always, but at least there are ‘better chances’

    On the eve of election results, Akhilesh Yadav was categorically saying on TV that he is not looking for bifurcation of the state. Honestly I’m not impressed. Akhilesh is no Nitish but let’s see what he can do with the mandate he’s got. For the sake of its people, I seriously hope he makes a difference

  16. Great article and while most pro BJP guys may not agree to the dig taken at BJP, I think it is sincere and sensible effort at projecting the failure of both Congress and BJP. The whole concept of pro hindutva which bjp had embarked on is has limited viability and in long run, the only thing that will work is good governance and honest policies. As they say…U can’t fool all the people all the time.
    Of course there are always some exceptions….and some people can be fooled all the time. Pro hindutva will be a success in a state like gujarat which has highest nos of temple and temple going people. Can’t think of other state where this can be emulated so successfully. Maharashtra fell prey to it for a while but guess it fethred out after a while.
    In short, any party that has to succeed and get elected time and again has to fall back on good old concept of good governance, honesty and people first policies. Otherwise, they will shown the door in the next election.

    Best
    AR

  17. AR : “The whole concept of pro hindutva which bjp had embarked on is has limited viability and in long run, the only thing that will work is good governance and honest policies.”

    What makes you think being “pro-hindutwa” is at the exclusion of “good governance and honest policies” ? Gujarat, as you helpfully said is a hardcore hindutwa state. But it is also the best administered and least corrupt state in the country. Indeed, perhaps the only state in the country with a good and honest administration and pro-economic growth policies.

    I am fed up of the characterization of Gujaratis as a “communal”, “fascist” people who only vote for communal fascist causes. Gujaratis are more than anything else, self-employed business-people and entrepreneurs. And a good businessman only supports policies or politicians who can ensure an atmosphere where he can devote his energies to work alone, prosper and grow his business without fear or favour. Gujarat has under 4% of India’s population but produces 20% of India’s economic output. Gujarat gets more private sector investment than the next 5 states combined. Gujarat also has the highest economic growth rate in the country. Best infrastructure, only state in the country that is not only power surplus, but provides power to other states.

    Much of this is because of one man I know many of you hate. Narendra Modi. I know this blog is mostly read by Bengalis. Ask yourself. Lot of Bengalis are gainfully employed in the private sector in Gujarat. How many Gujaratis likewise are employed in the private sector in West Bengal ? That is assuming West Bengal has a private sector :) You know how West Bengal is like. Live in fascist Modi’s fascist Gujarat for 2 weeks. And compare.

  18. Read this article from The Economist on Gujarat. (Modi and Gujarat haters,read it and weep..)

    http://www.economist.com/node/18929279

    Excerpts :

    “SO MANY things work properly in Gujarat that it hardly feels like India.”

    “A recent comparison of Indian states by McKinsey, a consultancy, waxed lyrical about Gujarat. It might yet play the role of industrial locomotive for the country, as Guangdong province did for China in the 1990s. There is lots of excited talk about exporters switching from China to India.”

    “The state government uses the usual tricks to try to jump-start growth, including special economic zones. But more important, it has provided the bog-standard things that businesses pray for across India but often do not get—less onerous labour laws, passable roads, reliable electricity and effective bureaucracy.”

    “Gujarat could be a vision of India’s future, in which manufacturing flourishes, soaking up rural labour. Its economy is expected to grow by double digits, even as India’s rate slows to 7-8% this year.”

  19. Also, I just read somewhere that Kolkatta / West Bengal too has no load shedding, gets 24/7 power. I dont know if that is true or false, you guys know better. So if that is true, me telling you that Gujarat gets 24/7 power is no big deal to you.

    But understand this. Gujarat is India’s most industrialized state. Industries need power, suck up power more than anything else. West Bengal is a zero-industrial or non-industrial state. Politics has banished any productive activity from West Bengal. So it is much easier for WB to have 24/7 power than Gujarat.

  20. @Ranger

    Hate Naren Modi? May not be “Many” I can assure you that there are “many” silent admirers of the man

  21. the loosers in this whole business are the people of UP – they are being taken for a ride – they do not get a real choice.

    Akhilesh yadav seems to say all the right things – maybe he will take a lesson from Nitish in bihar and actually offer good governance!

  22. @Arnab
    Thank you for a succint and balanced summary of the UP verdict.And for not going gaga over the old-wine-in-new-bottle heir apparent of the SP.

    @Ranger
    The Economist article is good, but as always, people find it impossible to praise Gujarat without rehashing the 2002 riots. And like most accounts of the event, they spread lies such as “As many as 2,000 people (the official toll is lower) were killed in a month of riots …” What riled me the most is that the ‘have-nots’ mentioned in the article are exclusively Muslim. As if Hindus are all upper-class oppressors.

    @Everyone
    If the BJP is a party of “Hindu fanatics” then the fanaticism practised and preached by the Congress, SP-BSP is different only in kind not degree; it is far more insidious in nature and will eventually destroy the already-battered fabric of this country. Perhaps the people of UP (and India) deserve the ‘rulers’ they get.

  23. I dont think there is anything to note in the UP elections at all. This was just another caste driven election in UP, where the UPites once again proved bal thakrey’s statement that “In India, people do not cast their vote, they vote their caste”.
    The congress has been marginalised because the muslims voted en masse for the SP because they knew the congress wouldnt be able to capture power, and hitched their lot with mullah mulayam; but come the national elections, this community will vote for the congress/ allies just to prevent the bjp from coming to power.
    The bjp’s mistake is that it has moved away from its ideology of protecting hindu interests which is what had helped them capture power 2 elections before. They still havent realised that projecting a moderate image will not help, as they will then lose their core support base (who will see no difference between them and the congress), while muslims and pseudo secularists will never vote for them, no matter what they do. The bjp would do well to adopt Modi’s style where he focusses on progress and development, while ensuring that islamic terrorism is dealth with sternly (something the average gujrati acknowledges and appreciates by voting for modi).
    The biggest loser in all this is the average indian hindu, who will have to face numerous more deganga’s for now; and in the next few decades might well face systematic persecution, as is happening in bangladesh and pakistan right now.
    Jai Hind.

  24. @ranger
    yup. I agree.
    Let’s exporters switch from guandong province to Gujarat.
    Let’s get gujus stitch nike shoes instead.
    I am all for it, except, it has nothing to do with this article, now is it?

  25. Vivek, good points. I belong to UP , but now I rarely go there, like once in two years.The impression I got that during Mayawati’s tenure the infrastructure has drastically improved. The decrepit roads that I had been seeing since my childhood in the Basti/Gorakhpur/Faizabad area have been fixed.Even in Lucknow, there is visible change. Whats your opinion? Am I making too much of a fleeting impression?

  26. Arnab and others, what do you think about the Peace Party? Media seems to be projecting it as a “Muslim” party, but I think it is an oversimplification.
    The thing that I like about this party is that it is not made of career politicians, and I will be keenly following its course.

  27. Ranger…
    The economic progress you talk about is not the only form of progress. A country, an individual can grow to be more successful and progressive on multiple dimensions be it literacy, art/culture, research and above all, in humanity. Just barking on the lone tree of fat bank accounts, greed driven by money approach and flashy roads and buildings limits a human capacity to progress. Shows your limited thinking of assessing human progress.
    Germany was a very progressive and economically successful state prior to World war II. It was this arrogance, superiority complex that led to birth of nazisim, and Hitler led them into a war, killing millions of human and jews in particular. In short, just economic success in wrong hands leads to arrogance and intolerance and humanity suffers.

    About private sector investments coming to Gujarat, let me re-iterate some hidden facts on the Tata nano project that is being credited to Modi’s smartness……It was a well-executed business move, but reeks of cronyism/corruption. The company was provided stamp duty & tax-exemption of nearly Rs.600 crores, exemption on electricity duty, concessional power tariff and half the land alloted for the plant was sold at throwaway rate of Rs.14 lac per acre. After all these indirect subsidies offered to him by Narendra Modi, the poor goat-herders are provided loans of few thousand rupees at 24-40% interest by our micro-financers, our middle-class hero was given a loan of Rs.9570 crores at 0.1 percent % by our other middle-class hero. Look beyond the propaganda and a few cancer hospitals thrown our way to win our sympathies. The amount of money that Tatas saved from stamp duty exemption itself covered the cost of the Rs.120 crore cancer hospital. similar deals are happening and the Adani group is being sold land at ridiculous prices by the guj govt. If crooked deals with politicians help company save tens of thousands of crores in expenditure, cheap land etc, who wouldn’t invest in such state??…….

    More to follow, stay tuned.

  28. Ranger.
    Talking of industrial growth in Guj? The state reeks of one worst polluted land….Vapi smells like shit full of banned chemicals from Europe and US now shifted there. Ankleshwar and Bharuch are grave yards and dumping ground of worst chemicals products which no other prosperous countries want to manufacture. Baroda…pass through GSFC and urea…what do you smell? Vatva near Ahmedabad…what stuff is being poured out from those factories into the land of rural Indians?? You consider this progress? I have traveled the lenght & width of Western India as a finance consultant and know what I am talking about.

    On the Economist report…you should have read their post/publications from perhaps 10/12 years back, when they lauded the policies followed by Greece and other European countries…..they are all in deep shit now. The Economist and other media are here to create the bubble and hype, and then once their work is done, money made, dump the country and move on. China is the next bubble waiting to burst.

    And coming back to Gujarat entrepreneur…..he/she perhaps makes 4/10 times in income compared to a salaried employee in Govt & private sectors…but pay less taxes than the salaried employee, because the so called entrepreneur Cheats!!. So who contributes more to the expense of this country? The salaried employees of this country.

    Coming back to other form of contribution….how many IAS, IPS, IITs, PHDs and Administrative positions are held by Gujaratis? These are all competitive posts and needs hard work, dedication and appreciation of education and research and not just Money. A state/society having a large pool of such professional people support & drive the nation, its research and very essence of progress!! Also, how many Gujus join Indian army? negligible.

    You assume I am Bengali…fact is, it does NOT matter who I am. By attacking a state just on the basis of an assumption either shows your immaturity or intolerance. Both are dangerous. As for Bengal, forget your surplus power and Bengali working in guj, your very own Modi is emulating a great Bengali Swami Vivekanand to boost up his image..read the recent effort and posting on this…kawa chale hans ki chaal.

    reply to Fiend/JB….killing innocent people is one thing…chopping off hands and limbs, raping women in front of their family, and then killing is an act worst than a human can contemplate. Those acts have happened in Gujarat and the culprits are being protected. So ask yourself, who is the real terrorist?

    On conclusion, I would just like to say that…..it is not in good times, but in bad times that we need to remember that we are Humans first. That is the only thing that matters. But sadly, some people have forgotten that!!

  29. @AR (not Arundhati Roy I hope :)
    Allow me to clarify a few basic ‘facts’ you mention:
    “The whole concept of pro hindutva which bjp had embarked on is has limited viability and in long run, the only thing that will work is good governance and honest policies.”
    “Any party that has to succeed and get elected time and again has to fall back on good old concept of good governance, honesty and people first policies. Otherwise, they will be shown the door in the next election.”
    Examples of how good governance, honesty and ‘people first’ policies can go together in Gujarat

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-09-14/india/30153724_1_crs-governance-general-motors

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Ahmedabad/Gujarat-Govt-wins-UN-public-service-award/Article1-562140.aspx

    http://www.narendramodi.in/government-of-gujarat-wins-3-national-e-governance-awards/

    http://www.domain-b.com/economy/general/20110713_farming_model.html

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/land-act-a-fraud-learn-from-gujarat-says-sc/827449

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/wikileaks-show-narendra-modi-honest-bjp/766054/

    I could give you many such examples. Of course, you can always put them down to “cronyism” between Modi and the US govt/ UN/ Julian Assange and so on. But the above examples are conclusive proof why Gujarat has overwhelmingly supported Modi as CM.
    Now for your contention that really blew me away
    “Pro hindutva will be a success in a state like gujarat which has highest nos of temple and temple going people.”
    As the self-proclaimed expert on all matters Gujarat, did you individually count the number of temples in Gujarat? Because, you’re about to be sued by the outraged people of Tamil Nadu, which holds the distinction of having the highest number of temples in the country. (re Wikipedia). Another interesting fact is that some of the holiest places of Hinduism (Ayodhya, Mathura, Vrindavan, Gokul, Varanasi and Allahabad) are located in UP, scene of the SP’s thumping victory. I really fail to see the connection between “highest nos of temple and temple going people” and voting “pro-hindutva.” Could you enlighten me here?
    And then you take the high moral ground (reminding me of your namesake the Arrogant R) citing parameters such as “literacy, art/culture, research and above all, in humanity” for gauging progress. I’m glad you brought that up. Let’s take just one subjective parameter ‘humanity’ – the quality that the people of Gujarat apparently lack. What role models do you recommend for them? West Bengal? The 34 years of CPM rule in WB were notable for the breakdown of education, healthcare and other essential services in the state as well as endemic political violence and graft. Read up on the NCW report indicting the CPM for intimidation, murder, extortion and yes gang rape. Even the poor in WB, as in many other states of Bharat are worse off than the poor of Gujarat.
    And surprise surprise! The Sachar Committee report states “The literacy rate among Muslims in Gujarat is 73.5%, compared to national literacy of 59.1%. Literacy rate among Muslim women in Gujarat is 5% more compared to national literacy average in urban areas. In rural areas, it is 57%, compared to the national average of 43%. In Gujarat, 45.3% Muslim children receive secondary education as against the national average of 40.5%. Against the plan of the Government of India to provide scholarship to 52,260 minority students under the pre-matric scheme, Gujarat has made available scholarship to the tune of R 227 lakh to 2,25,000 Muslim students during 2010-11 and paid assistance worth R 535 lakh for school uniform to 3,57,000 Muslim students studying in Std 1-7,”
    Surely, the Monster of Gujarat must be doing something right!
    More holes will be plugged. Stay tuned.

  30. Just one thing. If “money-making” Gujju style is a sign of low culture, then let me remind you that Gujarat, having under 5% of India’s population, is responsible for 22% of India’s export earnings and 16% of India’s industrial output…. and contributes 13-14% of India’s tax revenues annually. Much of the money India earns out of Gujarat goes into the funding of loss making public sector units and sending money in thousands of crore rupees to economically weak, (but indeed, culturally rich :) ) states like West Bengal can feed their people and provide them with daily amenities of life.

    Anyway, if you people have so much contempt for Gujarat, Gujaratis and their low culture, I request you to convince your respective state governements not to take any money from Gujarat. You can request your national government not to tax Gujarat and to let Gujaratis keep the fruits of their labor for themselves.

    You are welcome to keep your “high culture”, “pursuit of humanity”, “literature” and stuff. Gujaratis just want to make money. (I know, I know, making money requires very low intellect as per your thesis. But what to do, thats the only thing Gujaratis are good at :) ) You keep your culture. Gujaratis will keep their money . Happy :)

  31. /*Much of the money India earns out of Gujarat goes into the funding of loss making public sector units and sending money in thousands of crore rupees to economically weak, (but indeed, culturally rich :) ) states like West Bengal, so that they can feed their people and provide them with daily amenities of life.*/

  32. “And coming back to Gujarat entrepreneur…..he/she perhaps makes 4/10 times in income compared to a salaried employee in Govt & private sectors…but pay less taxes than the salaried employee, because the so called entrepreneur Cheats!!. So who contributes more to the expense of this country? The salaried employees of this country.”

    Who pays the salaries of the saintly salaried employees ?

    “Coming back to other form of contribution….how many IAS, IPS, IITs, PHDs and Administrative positions are held by Gujaratis? These are all competitive posts and needs hard work, dedication and appreciation of education and research and not just Money. A state/society having a large pool of such professional people support & drive the nation, its research and very essence of progress!! Also, how many Gujus join Indian army? negligible.”

    Who pays the salaries of IAS,IPS officers, who finances IITS,IIMs etc. ? Who finances the Indian Army ?

    (I expect you to say – the taxes of the salaried govvernment, PSU and private sector employees do that. But I ask again, who pays for their salaries ? Who makes the jobs of the “hard-working”, “educated”, “dedicated” government and private sector employees possible so that they can afford to pay “taxes”? Who or what is the reason for these people to have “jobs” ?)

    Where does the money come from ? Indeed, what exactly is “money” ?

    Think about it. If you answer the question correctly, you will understand exactly why India is such a backward and poverty stricken country. No, its not because of lack of resources. Its because of a bankruptcy of ideology, which not just you, but majority of Indians exhibit, starting from Chacha Nehru.

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  34. @Arnab
    Please delete my earlier comment. I am posting it again minus the links.
    Apologies for hogging the comment space.

    @AR (not Arundhati Roy I hope :)
    Allow me to clarify a few basic ‘facts’ you mention:

    You say
    “The whole concept of pro hindutva which bjp had embarked on is has limited viability and in long run, the only thing that will work is good governance and honest policies.”
    “Any party that has to succeed and get elected time and again has to fall back on good old concept of good governance, honesty and people first policies. Otherwise, they will be shown the door in the next election.”

    My answer
    Examples of how good governance, honesty and ‘people first’ policies can go together in Gujarat

    “The Chief Minister’s Office, Government of Gujarat was awarded the Gold Award for SWAGAT programme for its outstanding performance in citizen-centric delivery through the State Wide Attention on Grievances with Application of Technology. Gujarat Chief Minister extended the SWAGAT programme up to village level in the name of Gram SWAGAT on 1st February 2011, to extend the access of grievance resolution sitting at the village level. In just nine days, GRAM SWAGAT has received 9000 applications. In 2010, the SWAGAT programme was internationally recognized by the United Nations through Public Service Awards for improving transparency and accountability in public service. SWAGAT is a key system for empowerment that allows voices of citizens to be heard and ensures the response is transparent , effective and time-bound.”

    “Gujarat’s Integrated Water-Shed Management Program (IWMP) won Silver Award for innovative technology usage in e-Governance. Gujarat is the first state to apply Satellite GIS to fully plan, implement and monitor watershed management. The GIS Satellite imagery is used to transparently identify watershed boundaries and most needy areas. GPS and mobile software are used to feed data and create maps to plan and to monitor progress. Gujarat State Watershed Management Agency (GSWMA) has used technology to benefit 1,048 villages, 7.08 lakh hectares, and 2.5 Lakh farmers”

    “Rajkot Municipal Corporation e-Governance won Bronze Award for innovative technology usage in e-Governance. All of Rajkot’s civic services have been covered with ‘M-Governance’ Mobile Governance. Over 1 lakh SMS alerts were sent for Property Tax, Birth registration, Awas Yojana instalment and other services. Over 49,000 SMS alerts were sent for out-standing dues and Rajkot Municipal Corporation’s dues have doubled to 320 Crore. A 24×7 Call Centre registers complaints through phone, SMS and website. Since 2009, citizens have sent more than 1.6 lakh SMS complaints to the call centre. Over 55,000 Vaccination SMS alerts were sent for timely immunization coverage”
    (Courtesy narendramodi.in)

    “Gujarat has registered the highest agricultural growth in real terms during the past decade, leaving other states far behind, according to a study conducted by Associated Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Assocham). The state stood first with a decadal compounded annual growth rate (CAGR) of 10.97 per cent between 2000-01 and 2009-10 among 15 non-special category states. Maharashtra stood second with a growth of 10.50 per cent during the period. “
    (Courtesy domain-b.com)

    “Forcible acquisition of land has turned the 117-year-old Land Acquisition Act into a “fraud”, the Supreme Court said on Thursday, calling the legislation a handiwork of “sick” minds with no concern for welfare of the poor. It went on to praise the Gujarat government, saying no cases of farmers or the poor being uprooted from their land had come to court from the state. The Supreme Court compared states where “forcible acquisition” using an emergency clause under the Act had almost become a norm to Gujarat. “But there is one state from where we do not receive any such complaints. Look at Ahmedabad which is developing but there are no complaints from that place. They have the same officers of the same cadre as in the rest of the country,” the court said, adding officers from other states can train under their Gujarat counterparts.”
    (courtesy indianexpress.com)

    I could give you many such examples. Of course, you can always put them down to “cronyism” between Modi and the US govt/ UN/ Julian Assange and so on. But the above examples are conclusive proof why Gujarat has overwhelmingly supported Modi as CM.

    Now for your contention that really blew me away

    You say
    “Pro hindutva will be a success in a state like gujarat which has highest nos of temple and temple going people.”

    As the self-proclaimed expert on all matters Gujarat, did you individually count the number of temples in Gujarat? Because, you’re about to be sued by the outraged people of Tamil Nadu, which holds the distinction of having the highest number of temples in the country. (re Wikipedia). Another interesting fact is that some of the holiest places of Hinduism (Ayodhya, Mathura, Vrindavan, Gokul, Varanasi and Allahabad) are located in UP, scene of the SP’s thumping victory. I really fail to see the connection between “highest nos of temple and temple going people” and voting “pro-hindutva.” Could you enlighten me here?
    And then you take the high moral ground (reminding me of your namesake the Arrogant R) citing parameters such as “literacy, art/culture, research and above all, in humanity” for gauging progress. I’m glad you brought that up. Let’s take just one subjective parameter ‘humanity’ – the quality that the people of Gujarat apparently lack. What role models do you recommend for them? West Bengal? The 34 years of CPM rule in WB were notable for the breakdown of education, healthcare and other essential services in the state as well as endemic political violence and graft. Read up on the NCW report indicting the CPM for intimidation, murder, extortion and yes gang rape. Even the poor in WB, as in many other states of Bharat are worse off than the poor of Gujarat.

    And surprise surprise! The Sachar Committee report states “The literacy rate among Muslims in Gujarat is 73.5%, compared to national literacy of 59.1%. Literacy rate among Muslim women in Gujarat is 5% more compared to national literacy average in urban areas. In rural areas, it is 57%, compared to the national average of 43%. In Gujarat, 45.3% Muslim children receive secondary education as against the national average of 40.5%. Against the plan of the Government of India to provide scholarship to 52,260 minority students under the pre-matric scheme, Gujarat has made available scholarship to the tune of R 227 lakh to 2,25,000 Muslim students during 2010-11 and paid assistance worth R 535 lakh for school uniform to 3,57,000 Muslim students studying in Std 1-7,”

    Surely, the Monster of Gujarat must be doing something right!

    More holes will be plugged. Stay tuned.

  35. Last point.

    “A state/society having a large pool of such professional people support & drive the nation, its research and very essence of progress!!”?

    India does not lack in professional people. Indeed India produces millions of professionals every year – comparable in numbers to China and USA.

    Why is India poor and backward ?

    You talk of “research”. Why is it that little Israel, whose population of 7 million is the same as number of engineering and science graduates India produces in 3-4 years – has twice the number of patents produced by India over the last 10 years ?

    I can name at least 10 Israeli tech start-ups who are doing wonders globally. How many Indian start-ups are even vaguely comparable ?

    Lastly, Gujarat. Facts will bear me out that Gujarat is the only state which is driving India forward economically. Gujarat is India’s economically fastest growing and most industrialized state. And you yourself say Gujaratis are not smart enough to become “professionals” and salaried employees. They are only good enough to become entrepreneurs and businessmen and employ these wonderful professionals . (So pathetic :) )

    Anyway, read your statements again. Do you see any contradiction ?

    Think about it.

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  37. If Gujarat is mentioned, can desi Godwin’s law be far behind? :)

    According to the extremely simplistic alternative history propagated by AR:

    “Germany was a very progressive and economically successful state prior to World war II. It was this arrogance, superiority complex that led to birth of nazisim, and Hitler led them into a war, killing millions of human and jews in particular. In short, just economic success in wrong hands leads to arrogance and intolerance and humanity suffers.”

    My answer
    It is a well known fact that German society and economy was in tatters after WW 1, thanks to the Blockade of Germany by the Allies, the occupation of the Ruhr and the crippling conditions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles, which plunged Germany into one of its worst financial and political crises ever. Hitler actually helped Germany come out of the morass by devising a number of ways of boosting the economy as well as the morale of the masses. Germany was economically strong when it plunged into WW2. Hitler’s pathological hatred and persecution of the Jews were primarily for economic and racial reasons; he also targeted Communists, gypsies and the handicapped.

    Hence, there is absolutely no basis for the oft-repeated comparison between the Holocaust and the post-Godhra riots. 6 MILLION European Jews were killed in the Holocaust. Whereas the grossly inflated figures of ‘2000 Muslims’ killed in the post-Godhra riots can be whittled down to a realistic 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus killed; 2548 people injured and 223 people missing (as mentioned in the Rajya Sabha records). Kindly refrain from mentioning Hitler and Modi in the same breath. And make sure you get your ‘facts’ right next time.

    Thank you

  38. Heh…just one more post. Last one for today..I promise. AR has to be given a reply not because of whoever he is, (he is just an internet nick I came across yesterday) but because the sentiments expressed by him are very common in India. And the reason India is poor and backward.

    “Talking of industrial growth in Guj? The state reeks of one worst polluted land….Vapi smells like shit full of banned chemicals from Europe and US now shifted there. Ankleshwar and Bharuch are grave yards and dumping ground of worst chemicals products which no other prosperous countries want to manufacture. Baroda…pass through GSFC and urea…what do you smell? Vatva near Ahmedabad…what stuff is being poured out from those factories into the land of rural Indians?? You consider this progress? I have traveled the lenght & width of Western India as a finance consultant and know what I am talking about.”

    Thank you AR for talking about how life is like in Gujarat. Funnily enough, I have never been there :) , being just a bored Kannadiga code coolie who very rarely in his life has left his beloved Bangalore for anything :) .

    I am like an American who admires Israel without ever having being there. Why do Americans (and many Indians) do that ? Because Israel represents the best that human will and enterprise aided by the right ideology (free market capitalism) can achieve. Gujarat is my Israel. In fact you will find a lot of Indians are like that. Gujarat represents to us a possibility of what India can be like. It shows us that even we can compete with the Chinese if we get things right.

    Anyway, back to your point about pollution and industry. Britain is a very rich country and London is a very beautiful city. But do you know why Britain is a rich country ? No, not because of their colonial conquests. Benefits of colonial rule to Britain are vastly exaggerated. But mainly because of the industrial revolution in England in the early-to-mid 19th century. The presence of textile factories and cotton mills in London in that period made it the most polluted city anywhere in the world. Multitudes of scholars and literary luminaries have been inspired to write about the depravities and ugliness of the industrial life. Karl Marx was inspired by the pollution and depravity of industrial life to write his tomes “Das Kapital” and “Communist Manifesto” which led to the birth of communism.

    India meanwhile, was a beautiful, unspoiled land, lush forests, green fields, with no sign of ugly industries to spoil the scene.

    We know what happened to London and Britain. We know what happened to communism and those who took to or supported communism. We know what happened to India.

    Creating wealth is the most difficult thing in the world. You can make the choice not to create wealth and be West Bengal, with zero industry, zero enterprise of any sort except in organising unions of public sector employees, participating in strikes, producing innumerable economics professors (Question : why does one of India’s worst state in terms of economics,produces so many professors in economics? :) )…. you can be West Bengal and be happy and satisfied with yourselves, even feel yourself “superior” for sacrificing monetary gains in “pursuit of higher goals in life” or you can be Gujarat.

    Choice is yours.

  39. Very nice post on the elections gb.You are articulate and balanced on the subject.I have also written on the subject at aU P elections

    I think its not off topic so you would let it be.comment if you happen to like it.Thank You.

  40. Fiend and Ranger,

    The point is not who has made the most money. If, as a people, Gujaratis truly want to bury the ghost of the riots and ‘move on’, there has to be closure. And closure on horrific chapters of history are never made by just throwing money at them. Didn’t work for Germany, didn’t work for Japan, will not work for Bosnia-Herzegovina.
    Closure comes with justice, which needs to be seen to be done. You cannot sweep a conflict under the carpet, and say ‘let’s move on’.

    Else they can scream themselves hoarse from the rooftops about their annual balance sheets decade after decade, and they will still be seen, unfortunately, as bigots, very rich ones, but bigots nevertheless. And yes, stereotyping has the sad reality of society down the ages. Live with it.

  41. @ Shubs

    Gujarat riots was the closure of a small chapter that started at Godhra, a localized chapter.
    After that closure, all the people of the state moved on, and took forward their progress in leaps and bounds. They are continuing to do so.

    The Jihad being perpetrated in the rest of India hasnt found closure yet. And some political parties are bowing to that, for short term peace and pleasure(of vote bank).

    To quote you above, “Closure comes with justice, which needs to be seen to be done. You cannot sweep a conflict under the carpet, and say ‘let’s move on’.”

    We are still waiting for that justice. From Kasab’s victims in Mumbai, to the villagers of Deganga and Sutia in Bengal. I suggest you forget Gujarat and find some justice for the people of Deganga, pronto.

  42. @Shubs

    Please read my comment of March 12, 2012 at 10:08 am again. It applies to you too.

    @Everone

    The web of lies, half-truths and factoids created by the corrupt English media about Gujarat, Gujaratis and Modi has beem adequately exposed elsewhere, so I won’t attempt it here.

    The people of Gujarat (including Muslims) have moved on long ago. It is the vested interests of BJP rivals and ‘civil’ society that cannot afford the luxury of ‘closure.’

    Unfotunately for his detractors, Modi is one of the most honest Indian politicians, who sincerely works for the people of his state. Gujaratis are pragmatic, progressive and peace loving people; they vote for Modi because he PERFORMS. On all parameters of good governance. The benefits of his good work have permeated to hitherto marginalized sections of the state INCLUDING Muslims. Which is more than can be said for the supposedly progressive states.

    Hence, his opponents work on the premise ‘throw dirt enough and some will stick.’ In fact, the media brainwashing has been so effective that we Indians have lost the ability to distinguish between truth and falsehood.

    Modi does not need to apologise, simply because he is NOT culpable for the Godhra train attack nor for the spontaneous outburst that followed. If he hadn’t acted decisively by swiftly calling in the Army, things could have been much worse.

    Yes I know. This is a bitter pill to swallow. But no amount of sugarcoating will make it palatable to Modi baiters and Gujarat haters. The only thing to do is to take off those blinkers and stop acting holier than thou.

    Forgive my bluntness but someone just has to say it.
    Gujarat has moved on far ahead of Bharat.
    So spare us the platitudes and look within.

    Thank you

    (Arnab my apologies for taking this thread off-topic)

  43. How did this article on UP become a Gujrat diatribe…
    @Ranger – Stating that WB is a non-industrialised state is just pure ignorance …obviously you have never been there and (like others) are just mouthing generalisations which is BS
    Kindly research the number of industries still operating in WB not to speak of agriculture, fisheries etc before you start mouthing off about WB…if West Bengal had only the basic population of Bengalis it would be a remarkably developed state maybe more so than any others…over 50% of the population in WB are migrants from other parts of India not to speak of illegal immigrants from Bangladesh…its just the Bengalis pluralism and broad mindedness that they do not persecute or discriminate against fellow Indians

  44. Okay Shourie, facts are that Gujarat produces 22% of India’s exports and 22% of India’s industrial output. How much does your “industrialised state” West Bengal produce ? Come out with facts. Let us see how “industrialised” West Bengal is.

  45. Okay Shourie, facts are that Gujarat produces 22% of India’s exports and 16% of India’s industrial output. How much does your “industrialised state” West Bengal produce ? Come out with facts. Let us see how “industrialised” West Bengal is.

  46. @Shouri
    “if West Bengal had only the basic population of Bengalis it would be a remarkably developed state maybe more so than any others”

    No state or country has the ‘basic’ population it started out with before the beginning of Time. Every Indian state, prosperous ones such as Gujarat and Maharashtra in particular, has migrants settling in from other states. Tolerance and/or pampering of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants in WB (for cultivating votebanks) does not signify ‘pluralism’ or ‘broad-mindedness’ any more than protestig against Islamic fundamentalism makes Gujarat ‘fascist.’

  47. @Ranger Could you let me know where you got your statistics from…then we can see where idiots like you get data to spout this nonsense…i am sure the same source can provide statistics for WB as well…unless you got them from some random article…anyway i cite from wikepedia “In terms net state domestic product (NSDP), West Bengal has the sixth largest economy (2009–2010) in India, with an NSDP of 366,318 crore Indian rupees, behind Maharashtra (817,891 crores), Uttar Pradesh (453,020 crores), Andhra Pradesh (426,816 crores), Tamil Nadu (417,716 crores), and Gujarat (370,400 crores)”
    I wonder what total idiots like you have against WB. If you dont like WB or bengalis get lost and cite your retarded bigotry and hatered elsewhere amongst your fellow fools….even the gujjus probarbly dont care for fools like you….

  48. Shouri, I got my stats from this article from The Economist. Heard of it ?

    http://www.economist.com/node/18929279

    Another interesting fact for you, from this article from rediff.com >>

    http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-real-reason-why-mamata-sacked-trivedi/20120315.htm

    ——————————————

    West Bengal has over Rs 2.04 lakh crore of debt piled up, making it the state with the highest ratio of gross state domestic product to debt in India.

    The state budget of 2010-11 said that Rs 15,000 crore was going towards debt servicing. Imagine Mamata’s predicament at having only Rs 5000 crore in hand to invest in development activity.

    ———————————

    So basically you Bengalis are beggars who survive on the alms of more productive Indian states like Gujarat and Karnataka. You contribute nothing to India. You survive by begging for the Indian tax payer’s money, most of which comes from states like Gujarat, Karnataka,Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu.

    You people are basically an entitlement based society. You expect to be given things without paying for it. You people are a curse on India. Name a single positive contribution to India from West Bengal. Your contribution is only negative. You people vote for the lies of Mamta Banerjee or Communists, who have successfully blocked economic reforms in India.

    It would be better if people of India throw your state out of the country. You can combine with your equally pathetic cousins from Bangladesh and form the Great Bengal Republic , a country of beggars and trade union members.

  49. Shouri, I got my stats from this article from The Economist. Heard of it ?

    http://www.economist.com/node/18929279

    Another interesting fact for you, from this article from rediff.com >>

    ——————————————

    West Bengal has over Rs 2.04 lakh crore of debt piled up, making it the state with the highest ratio of gross state domestic product to debt in India.

    The state budget of 2010-11 said that Rs 15,000 crore was going towards debt servicing. Imagine Mamata’s predicament at having only Rs 5000 crore in hand to invest in development activity.

    ———————————

    So basically you Bengalis are beggars who survive on the alms of more productive Indian states like Gujarat and Karnataka. You contribute nothing to India. You survive by begging for the Indian tax payer’s money, most of which comes from states like Gujarat, Karnataka,Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu.

    You people are basically an entitlement based society. You expect to be given things without paying for it. You people are a curse on India. Name a single positive contribution to India from West Bengal. Your contribution is only negative. You people vote for the lies of Mamta Banerjee or Communists, who have successfully blocked economic reforms in India.

    It would be better if people of India throw your state out of the country. You can combine with your equally pathetic cousins from Bangladesh and form the Great Bengal Republic , a country of beggars and trade union members.

  50. @ fiend

    The Bangladeshis are illegal migrants just like mexicans are to the US…people from WB like myself do not pamper them in any way and want them out asap…there is constant simmering conflict betn WB people (hindus) and BD people (muslims) is every border district in WB…its just not reported by the pseudo secular media and ignored by the rest of India…major riots are just a few years away….
    otherwise WB has an extremely large population of Marwaris from Rajasthan, Punjabis, Biharis, UPites, Oriyas, Assameese, North East people and believe it or not there are South Indian localities as well…btw even some Gujjus live there which is peculiar.
    It is no big deal for the local WB people like us to Gang up and cause some major trauma to these people…we could easily do what MNS does in Mumbai and burn a few cars or businesses which are migrant owned…in fact bigots like you will actually force us to start doing this in the near future….your disrespect for WB and bengalis in general will actually result in this scenario i am sure…keep in mind in the British era the bengalis produced violent revolutionaries …whereas gujjus and southies who talk big now were too busy having veg food and saving their own asses…heard of Subhash Chandra Bose??
    I can actually see why the MNS developed in Maharashtra…i guess without a constant threat of violence people from some states in India have no respect for the locals

  51. Shouri, forget Swami Vivekananda, Netaji etc. They belonged to an era when there was some pride in being a Bengali. What has been the situation in Bengal over the last 30 years ? Pathetic. My mom works in a public sector bank. In her bank, the worst punishment possible for an officer is to be transferred to West Bengal. Clerical staff take pride in not working there, takes weeks for a check to pass, or to make a DD. Pathetic work culture. And yet you people yap so much about your “great” culture and stuff….Anyway if you are still in West Bengal as you say you are, you must be a very dumb person. All smart Bengalis have got out of Bengal and are doing productive work in other states in India and abroad. Only dullards have got left behind.

  52. Also, you talk of migration from other states to West Bengal…. most migrants are probably 3rd generation or 4th generation. West Bengal was an industrial hub during British rule. So obviously lot of people all over India went there for a living. What has been the situation in WB over the last 30 years ? Pathetic. You may get migrants, but they are really illiterate and extremely poor laborers from Bihar, UP or Bangladesh. Why would an engineer from say Bangalore go to West Bengal ? In fact, no decent Bengali engineer stays back in WB. Why would they ? Where are the work opportunities ? I know how the situation is like in West Bengal because I have many Bengali friends here in Bangalore. There are literally tens of thousands of educated and smart Bengalis earning a livelihood in Bangalore. But I cannot think of a single person from Karnataka who would want to work in West Bengal. Where would he work there ?

  53. @ Ranger..lol…you dumb piece of @#$% ….i guess you must really be a kannadiga retard…if you did a bit more research on that rediff board you frequent…you could see that there was an article titled “Indias most debt ridden states”
    The list of staes are:
    Uttar Pradesh
    Loan burden: Rs 221,000 crore (Rs 2,210 billion)

    State: Maharastra
    Loan burden: Rs 208,000 crore (Rs 2,080 billion)

    State: West Bengal
    Loan burden: Rs 192,000 crore (Rs 1,920 billion)

    State: Andhra Pradesh
    Loan burden: Rs 126,000 crore (Rs 1,260 billion)

    State: Madhya Pradesh
    Loan burden: Rs 56,250 crore (Rs 562.50 billion)

    State: Orissa
    Loan burden: Rs 49,003.92 crore (Rs 490.03 billion)

    State: Karnataka
    Loan burden: Rs 66,000 crore (Rs 660 billion) ….ROTFL…lmaofffff…hahahahaha

    State: Kerala
    Loan burden: Rs 65,000 crore (Rs 650 billion)

    State: Bihar
    Loan burden: Rs 45,580.16 crore (Rs 455.8 billion)

    So by your own logic…your own state Karnataka is a state of beggars and all you Kannadigas are beggars who are an entitlement society who should be thrown out of India to form there own begging republics.

    This statement of yours :
    “So basically you Bengalis are beggars who survive on the alms of more productive Indian states like Gujarat and Karnataka. You contribute nothing to India. You survive by begging for the Indian tax payer’s money, most of which comes from states like Gujarat, Karnataka,Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu”

    is totally disproved by the above statistics from the article found in the link – http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/jul/28/slide-show-1-indias-most-debt-ridden-states.htm

    So you are a beggar and an IGNORANT HYPOCRITE…hahahaha this is priceless and just too funny…well to paraphrase you so basically you Kannadigas are beggars who live on the alms of more productive states. Your contribution to India is only negative and you should be thrown out into the Indian ocean to survive by begging from other staes….lol rotfl really made my day..))))

  54. @ Ranger

    Kindly read my above response…hahahahahaha….I like the word dullard…it describes you perfectly…lol what a priceless idiot you are

  55. Yaar Shouri…its really funny to hear a Bengali call Karnataka a “beggar” state. If you were even remotely smart or educated.. you would be in Bangalore, Karnataka like any Bengali who is smart or educated. But obviously, you are still in West Bengal. :)

  56. hahahahahaha…i love this…but the statistics are as above and they are totally genuine…let me repeat in case you missed it…

    State: Karnataka
    Loan burden: Rs 66,000 crore (Rs 660 billion) ….ROTFL…lmaofffff…hahahahaha

    You yourself condemned your state and all Kannadigas as beggars by your own statements…i merely used your own logic on yourself….hahahaha…I am Forex and commodities trader who is quite happy in Calcutta thank you very much…in Bangalore i would have to meet “dullards”…lol…rotfl…this is too goood

  57. People, dont get me wrong. There are some great Bengalis who have achieved a lot – people like Lakshmi Mittal. But all of them had to leave WB. Name a single high net worth successful company based in West Bengal and started by a Bengali?

    I can think of ITC… but it really is an offshoot of British Tobacco. Haldia Petrochemicals ? Small player. Really cant think of any.

  58. @ Ranger
    hahahahaha…you are priceless..better an ” incompetent idiot” and “dullard” (so quaint and south indian this expression) than be an ignorant hypocrite…man this will keep me smiling for the rest of the week

    @GB aka Arnab
    Kindly dont remove the above exchange with the great Texas Ranger…let my fellow WB folks have a good laugh too

  59. @ ranger
    Heard of Amar Bose …founder of Bose Speakers…the only brand WORLDWIDE founded by an Indian (A bengali) which is a technological world leader in its field…u are confused…either u hate bengalis or you dont …)))) that “in state / out of state” is just rubbish

  60. Wrong about Mittal. He’s actually a Marwari immigrant from Rajasthan, not of Bengali origin. Sort of person pure blooded Bengalis like Shouri just about “tolerate”.

  61. Shouri, read my comments again. I said there are a lot of smart Bengalis. Some are here in Bangalore. I am sure there are many in the US. But you wont find any in West Bengal. And no, I dont hate Bengalis. I have friends who are Bengalis from college. Great guys. And what I say is partly because of what they have told me about their state.

  62. @ Ranger

    This is priceless…i like the “pure blooded Bengalis” bit….actually i would love to say bad stuff about other communities living in WB but then i would run out of my supply of Friends who are from all over India and whom i love equally…i even have a great pal from Bangalore who is actually quite cool unlike you…)))))

  63. And is this company founded by Amar Bose based in West Bengal ? Does the company started by Amar Bose have anything to do with West Bengal apart from the fact that Mr.Bose had Bengali parents ? Is there a single decent company based in West Bengal started by a Bengali ?

  64. Ok so now there is not a single smart Bengali in WB……OMG…u actually did an IQ test for every Bengali living in WB to come to this conclusion…what amazing effort…anyway now being incompetent i have to get back to trading to make money…lol seeya later alligator….)))))

  65. Well there is Haldia Petrochem but its a “small player” as u said with your in depth knowledge of petrochemicals no doubt…also Peerless finance ummm Bengal Chemicals too..and plenty of others…by “pure blooded bengalis” as u put it…)))))

  66. @Shouri and Ranger

    This thread has now gone wayyyyy off topic and is actually degenerating into personal attacks and regional name calling. Since Arnab seems to be too busy to provide some much needed moderation, kindly keep the discourse civil.

    Thank you

  67. This is not to be – little Modi’s excellent work towards developing Gujarat, but in my humble opinion (IMHO), his success is largely magnified by the abysmal performance of his competitors like Maharashtra and Bengal. The situation is akin to a well groomed, well behaved child standing out in stark contrast to a bunch of unwashed and misbehaved contemporaries. However, grooming and manners by themselves are merely one requirement of human civilization. The 2002 Riots and Progress & Development at Gujarat are NOT related. One does not justify the other. Progress does not justify unlawful acts. The absence of unlawful acts does not justify lack of progress. Human society is all about progressing lawfully.

    Without belittling West Bengal’s great cultural heritage, Swami Vivekananda, lived a hundred years ago. While it’s all good to study history, to draw strategic lessons or personal inspiration, human society actually exists in the present. Also vicarious credit is a trap to avoid, the mere accident of being born a Bengali doesn’t make anyone superior, just because Satyajit Ray was also a Bengali or inferior because WB has been an industrial failure in the past 2 or 3 decades. Each person is a separate individual.

    Further, again IMHO, there’s NO connect between lack of material progress and intellectual or cultural achievement. The world’s leading universities in Oxford or the Boston area and technology companies in Silicon Valley are doing high levels of intellectual work in wealthy, comfortable surroundings. The works of art & music in Continental Europe continue to achieve greater heights & yet these are rich, developed countries. Material progress and cultural ferment are NOT related. One does not justify another. Cultural / intellectual achievements don’t justify poverty and lack of poverty does not justify lack of intellect. Mind and Matter, both are essential to human society.

  68. fiend.. you are right. I am sorry for my behaviour. I must have come across as some sort of a racist and somewhat parochialistic, which I am not. If anything, my goal in this thread was to fight off the racist insinuations made by some against Gujaratis, and I am not even a Gujarati. Anyway, to all, I apologise.

  69. Reading comments from Ranger and friends, I really long for the days when this message board was frequented by, well…adults, not kids with internet access.

  70. Hey..i have no interest in arguing with idiotic bigots…its only when fools start abusing WB and bengalis that i respond…but the ranger bit%^ sure got owned this time…lol…”dullard” rotfl straight from idli sambhar dictionary

    @ shubs & other “responsible adults”
    btw all u holier than thou souls who are sermonising good behaviour…where were u when this racist bas#$%^ was roundly abusing WB and Bengalis…
    anyway this is a total waste of time to argue with bigots…

  71. Shouri, wash your mouth first. Also wash your saliva soaked keyboard. It is true I should have not generalised every Bengali living in West Bengal as being stupid. (Although people like you do their best to prove me right just by their sheer presence here..)… But rest of my points about West Bengal being a very poor and backward state, which depends on funds from the centre (or basically the money of the tax payer from better off Indian states) just to provide its people with basic necessities of life, a state where industry is virtually dormant, with no real opportunities for the educated, a state whose people have always voted for politicians who are successfully destroying India by blocking economic reforms at every opportunity – all these facts are very much true.

    The point I apologise for, again, is the one I made about all smart and educated Bengalis leaving WB for jobs and a better life in other states like Karnataka or abroad. It was an exaggeration, but not too difficult to see the reason behind the statement. Where would you normally find a Bengali software engineer working ? They can be found in Bangalore, Hyderabad, or in the US. You wont find them in WB, because in WB there is no IT industry. WB is an industrial backwater where there is not much opportunity for science and engineering graduates.

    I also made certain irrefutable points about WB. I said migrants to WB are mostly of 3rd or 4th generation, and recent migrants are mostly poor, illiterate laborers from Bihar, UP and Bdesh. I also mentioned the absence of any iconic WB company – showing a distinct lack of enterprise. I also made a point about how officers in national public sector banks view a transfer to WB as the worst punishment possible, as clerical staff there simply refuse to work as a matter of pride. You have a very pernicious anti-industry mentality and culture where foul mouthed and trouble making trade unionists and government servants get the pride of place when it comes to policy formation. They are the reason industry has left WB.

    Seriously WB is in deep sh1t. Has been so for the last 30 years. The difference between WB and say, Karnataka or Gujarat, is like the difference between India and US. I can understand the extreme reaction of Bengalis to criticism of their state. Indians would react in the same way whenever say, Americans criticize India. Its okay to have pride and respond hard – but maybe there are times when there is some truth to the criticism. Thats all I have to say.

  72. I’m looking forward to the day Modi becomes PM and the US has to deal with the repercussions of its visa denial hypocrisy :)

    (Last off topic comment from me. Couldn’t resisit this one :) )

  73. Hey the article quotes Modi as saying he never went to college. But according to Wikipedia and my personal sources he has a Masters degree in Political Science from Gujarat University !!…??

  74. “Kind of like Montagues vs Capulets, but with criminals, rifles, wrestlers, elephants, statues, mandir” — I see. You are explaining UP politics to a predominantly Indian readership by invoking names like “Montagues” and “Capulets”. OK, we are very impressed by how eclectic and erudite you are. Next!

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