So now the government, in its full mafia glory, has made an offer industry cannot refuse.
Either the private sector voluntarily puts quotas for backward classes in place or the government will enact legislation which will force them to do the same thing.
Some industry bigwigs had put up a proposal to train backward classes at company cost in order to make them competitive in the job market—-but the government is not concerned about training, it wants their vote banks to have jobs—training and competency be damned.
In a way, extension of reservations to private sectors was inevitable —-after all Ram Vilas Paswan’s son may have been satisfied with a job in SAIL or ONGC but his grandson considers governmental jobs passe. He wants to work at Infosys and Wipro and its upto Ram Vilas Paswan to ensure that his grandson has the same sinecure that his son held.
The supporters of reservation (an ovewhelming majority of whom stand to gain from it) base their arguments on two principal premises.
1. For 5000 years, there has been total discrimination against Dalits. So now for another 5000 years, there should be “social justice” based on the injustices of the past as a means for a historical balancing of equations.
2. A higher class official is likely to discriminate against a lower-caste candidate because he is assumed to be incompetent by virtue of his birth. Hence the government needs to step in to make sure that biased people in power are “forced” to take lower-caste candidates.
Let’s look at point number 1. If we accept the premise, then we logically should also allow for the demolition of mosques (because temples were destroyed), the forced conversions of Muslims into Hindus (because Hindus were converted to Muslims by the sword) and massive pillage for the sake of historical retaliation against Muslim invaders. As a matter of fact, right wing loons like Praveen Togadia base their anti-Islamic vitriol on the basis of precisely such “historical” arguments.
Most sensible men realize that historical wrongs cannot be rectified in such a manner–it merely doubles the injustice rather than canceling each other out.
2. For government jobs, this logic indeed makes some sense. In a culture where productivity and performance are alien concepts, it can be argued that people in power could keep on perpetrating historic wrongs by choosing people of their own kind. However this logic cannot be applied for reservations in private sectors because of the presence of a factor governmental agencies do not concern themselves with (because of their inherent monopolistic nature)—the market.
If private companies discriminate against otherwise competent people on the basis of their birth, then they are compromising their ability to stay in competition. By the laws of the “market”, there will be at least one company which will understand that caste-based discrimination is not good for business and will derive a competitive advantage from it— a state of affairs so unstable that its competitors wont allow it to exist. As a result, no company is going to base their recruitment based on caste considerations.
In this context, it is indeed sad to see someone like Dr. Singh, who is wise enough to understand the egalitarian effects of market forces, attempt to force companies to base their recruitment on factors other than the competence of the candidate. The implementation of this caste-politics-driven heavy handedness would lead to a compromise of the competitiveness of Indian companies in the global market—-something Narayana Murthy obviously understood because of which he proposed other options.
Someone may point out that I am also making a connection between incompetence and low caste—-if a certain percentage of the workforce is drawn from backwards sections, why does it automatically mean that quality will be compromised?
Again the answer is market forces. An individual cultivates personal competency based on a system of incentives (in this case negative)—-if I am not competent, I won’t get a job. The assumption made here is that there is competition for jobs ie the number of candidates outnumber the number of positions. However, a system of reservations takes away the competition for a certain section of the population with the result that their incentive for cultivating personal competence is lost. Why slog away at getting an A in Compilers when I know that my birth certificate itself will guarantee me a cushy job?
In conclusion, historical wrongs do need to rectified. Sections of the population are still deprived of opportunities and it is the responsibility of the government to make sure that social justice is handed out. But the way to do that is through training and need-based financial assistance and by putting in checks and balances so that “backward classes” who have already availed of assistance do not keep on qualifying for it generation after generation based on their last name. However this is precisely what Paswan wants—he not only wants to look after his grandson but also his grandson’s grandson so that independent India keeps on apologizing to them, by giving them “guaranteed jobs ” for the wrongs meted out to Paswan’s grandfather.
PS: The author has no personal stake in the argument. I am not a high-class Bramhin. And I also think Ram Vilas Paswan rocks. I really do. Honest.
Update 1: Excellent post on the same topic at the Acorn .
The Greatbong Blog & Podcast 
This is the price democracy has to pay – democracy based on votes , i.e. vote-gathering power. Policies based only on past (social justice or injustice) would take the country only so far unless present and future conditions are also taken into account (basically taking cognizance of the market, and increasingly the world market, which shows no mercy on policies which is mum on efficiency and is based on social justice alone.
All a politician cares is for his vote bank – he puts his mouth where the vote is or by which agenda he can milk some money from the exchequer. Otherwise how can anybody justify our WB government giving free land in Noapara to the squatters on the railways property? The answer is simple: vote. They may not get the chance to vote this time (due to change of address) but they will remember all their lives which party gave them the land! That means assured vote for the party! Isn’t it that the govt is giving wrong signal or doing “historical wrongs†by providing free land for life to squatters!
Can you justify why tax payer’s money is being used by local councilor to lay tiles (yes you heard me right – tiles) in the toilets of bustee people in the name of improvement for the poor!! How ludicrous it is. But that buys vote – I heard from my maid servant that ‘this councilor only looks after us’ – which translates into vote allegiance. For politicians there is no word like right or wrong.
Excellently argued, Arnab. Sometimes I think that the tongue-in-cheek posts tend to play down your very competent debating skills. I only wish more people understood simple economic logic.
This post has been removed by the author.
Arnab da,
(1) Its an incisive analysis of it. Kudos. However, you would do more justice to the issue/topic and come up with a more tempered account, if you go through some scholarly work. I understand the topic is very tempting.
Suggested course:
Sociology -> Concept of Affirmative Action -> Strategies/Alternatives, Historical perspective, Comparative Perspective (a good example US vis-a-vis India)
(2)
Affirmative Action DEFN: Remedial actions, originally relating to employment, but now also covering college and university admissions, contracting and other areas, designed to overcome effects of past societal and individual discrimination against minorities and women.
A few excerpts from elsewhere:
[Snip]
In his 1965 commencement address at Howard University, Presidet Johnson said:
You do not take a person who for years has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, “you’re free to compete with all the others,” and still justly believe that you have been completely fair. Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates …. We seek not…just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact and equality as a result.
…
…the major lines or argument within the controversy. The authors agree that injustices have occurred, that their victims deserve compensation, and that strenuous efforts should be made to try to prevent any further wrongdoing while striving to achieve a more enlightened society. The disagreements arise in specifying who has suffered injustice, what is appropriate compensation to them, and which steps should be taken to promote justice and amity.
[snip end]
If you want to know which side (industry or the politicians) will win, just follow the money.
Hi greatBong,
I read your piece with great interest. Infact, I like your style by placing Ram vilas paswan as a lynch-pin character of the pro-reservation point of view.
Nice move. Afterall its easy to demerit (pun intended) an argument by associating rustic, unsophesticated characters with the debate.
Nicer move, is your personal endorsement that RVP rocks. Takes the wind out of the previous argument.
Even nicer move, is your admission that you honestly believe so. All this I view as linguistic skills with a significant dose of sarcasm. Well done.
I just now, posted a detailed reply to acron’s article on the same subject (Read http://opinion.paifamily.com/?p=1773).
Just to give a summary of what I said in two lines.
“Merit” (as it exists today) is not the most important thing. Certainly not more than the political wishes of the people of the country. Vote bank politics is right and has precedence over any other moral theory of best and worst.
The rest of them are fickle money makers who can be made to accomodate within the setup. If they are so touchy as to jump ship if affirmative action is enforced, we dont need them. Honestly. My take is the great economic strides India seems to be making will be made even if we have reservations in place. They are more due to economic cycle’s than any one person’s supreme ability to launch rockets.
Just my take on it and many thanks for using Ram vilas paswan rathan than Laloo Prasad yadav. That way you would have instantly and unfarily ridden on the dislike of many of India’s (Pravasi India’s too) dislike for a caricature politician.
Thanks. Honestly.
vasu
PS: The author has no personal stake in the argument. I am not a beneficiary of the reservation system. And I also think Ram Vilas Paswan rocks. I really do. Honest.
1. Historical injustice should also mean rebuilding temples over mosques: If mosques and temples were people, it would’ve been a considerable idea.
2. A higher class official is likely to discriminate against a lower class person only in government : GreatBong should get out more often. Almost all privately held company have higher caste people. A bania company will preferably hire banias, a brahmin owner company will preferably hire brahmins. Not so much the case now may be because of demand supply, but still a bare truth.
The argument of market forces: If market forces were allowed a free hand, the bubble would not’ve developed. The stock markets (including in India) will never crash and lead to dismay all around.
The argument that all supporters of reservation gain to benefit from it: Absolutely false. In fact, all supporters of non-reservation gain to benefit from non-reservation as they take away a sizeable bunch of people out of the competetion.
I would’ve taken the Lyndon Johnson’s comment more seriously if it had come from someone else other than Johnson himself.
In absolute terms any reservation is bad, but looking at the society and even after 50 years of independence and ‘equality’ caste persecution exists.
A few more points about why reservation can be good is here http://unsaid.blogsome.com/2005/12/19/in-favour-of-job-quota
@Tarit: The rule of the mob as Pericles once called it. Very true.
@Yourfan: Precisely. All the high falutin ideals and debates be damned, reservations ultimately come down to bribing the electorate…the same reason why tiles are being put by spending tax money.
@Gamesmaster G9: Thank you. I am sure Dr. Singh understands. But he is not the power behind this as we all know.
@ Soul @Haldia:
You do not take a person who for years has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, “you’re free to compete with all the others,” and still justly believe that you have been completely fair. Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates …. We seek not…just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact and equality as a result.
Nobody is arguing with that. There is urgent need to provide training and financial assistance to historically depressed classes so that they may stand in the starting line of a race with an equitable chance of winning.
However RVP and his ilk want the Dalits to be given the gold medal without even standing at the starting line. That’s where the problem is.
@Anil: Wonder who has more.
@Vasu:
My take is the great economic strides India seems to be making will be made even if we have reservations in place. They are more due to economic cycle’s than any one person’s supreme ability to launch rockets.
It may be your take but it doesnt stand on reason. The fact that India has made great strides is despite reservations and not because of it. This is because reservations were restricted to the government—which by and large has never been competitive and almost always inefficient. Hence not much harm has been done.
And if you think that “merit” has to take second place to the wishes of the people then there is no merit to arguing—-you support the wisdom of the mob.
@Sachin Kumar:
1. Temples are more than people—they represent beliefs. And unlike people like RVP’s grandad who cannot be compensated no matter how much we want to, it is very easy to rectify “historical wrongs” in the said context: rebuild temples by destroying the mosques on which they are constructed. Plus many Muslims you see today are descendants of forced converts—-why should we not, based on your logic, convert them back?
2. All the rest of your points are “assertions” without any logic behind them. Baniyas take only Baniyas—who said so? You did. There may be one Baniya who took all baniyas but statistically, what you said cannot be true as it goes against the laws of the market. Which were defined by minds far bigger than both of ours.
If market forces were allowed a free hand, the bubble would not’ve developed. The stock markets (including in India) will never crash and lead to dismay all around.
Didnt quite get that. Market forces are what makes stock markets
crash…
In fact, all supporters of non-reservation gain to benefit from non-reservation as they take away a sizeable bunch of people out of the competetion.
Whoa. Supporters of non-reservation welcome competition , its supporters of reservation who dont. The fact is not of competition, even now Dalits are not competing. They are, as I previously pointed out,being given the gold medal at the starting line.
And Sachin, it would help if you not make personal comments (whether I need to get out more or not) while debating…..because my retort might be that you may want to use your brain more often. However I wont say that as it would go against the grain of a proper debate.
I’m sorry for making you feel bad for something I wrote, it was certainly not my intention. My reason for not using my brain sometimes is that I usually keep my brain in deep freeze for a while, but it helps me in looking at things from all angles, not just one or two. I recommend it to a lot of people here. Even if you wrote what you said you could’ve written, you certainly have the right to pull or hide any kinds of thoughts that you want, this being your blog.
Any reservation is indeed bad, as I mentioned in the other blog too, but what is a better alternative that will not hurt the higher caste in a worse way,to help bring up a huge part of society?
1. Temples are more than people—
True to a sense, but please think again. Also, tell me that apart from voting for a certain party, and sometimes even donating money, what has anyone here done to bring up a temple at a place there was a mosque before? What has anyone here done to try to reconvert muslims back to Hinduism? Apart from going on a jingoistic binge, of course.
2. All the rest of your points are “assertions” without any logic behind them. Baniyas take only Baniyas—who said so? You did.
—Please don’t mind me saying this again, and I say this with all humility, Please try to go out more often(and I’ll try to use my barins too). A company like even Reliance started out primarily as a ‘certain’ caste majority company. Its the internet age, I’m sure people can do their own verification of all the things I said earlier too.
About the market forces—That was my bad totally in not making it clearer. May be because I was still half asleep when I wrote that. But what you say is exactly my point, if market forces can lead to a crash with profound conequences, atleast for a majority of small investors, where is the certainty that market forces will ultimately lead to a better society and economy? The government has a duty to step in and take corrective measures if things are not in balance (which it is trying to do now, in case of society).
Whoa. Supporters of non-reservation welcome competition , its supporters of reservation who dont. The fact is not of competition, even now Dalits are not competing. They are, as I previously pointed out,being given the gold medal at the starting line.
Not quite. If supporters of non-reservation welcome competetion, why are there multiple industry based hurdles to opening up the economy (to give a side example)? Absolutely right about Dalits not welcoming competetion, but that’s exactly the point. They are not capable of competetion from richer and influential classes, that’s why the need to give a jump start (which you call gold medal). Without a jump start, they will stay where they are as our society will ensure that (people do need someone to take out their nightly crap out of theior homes, don’t they?)
Just to be a slimeball here, I’ve tried to address a lot of points on my blog, so instead of writing a long post (as if..), I recommend people going there.
Great Post, greatbong. You can trust the politicians to mess up anything valuable for the sake of a vote bank.
The argument that reservation in educational institutions alone isn’t enough because the powers-that-be refuse jobs to qualified reservation candidates is completely specious. What’s next? A quota for promotions? May be the government can mandate that 50% of all CEOs in India have to be from the backward castes.
India’s hopes of becoming an economic power will be grievously harmed if this regulation goes through. Which it will…. the politicians are perfectly happy with the status quo.
Ultimately, this is harmful to the beneficiaries of reservation as there is no incentive for them to excel.
Again, I keep nodding to everything you had to say here. Bravo; I agree with you completely.
Not only private, I think its about time India did away with any kind of reservations for anybody – not just backward, but sc / st, muslim, minorities and all the assorted groups of people. Indeed, a secular country that we are, everyone other than a Hindu is more equal than others :).
And then ppl ridicule and cry about brain drain and all that – oh well, if the majority of the population stands to be discriminated, because, discriminated idiots want to get back – well who will save the merit based ppl?
This is indeed a shameful step from govt, and esp from someone like Manmohan Singh – pathetic. Pathetic wretches, all they care abt is the vote.
Great post!
Suyog
Hi Arnab,
For permission to reproduce your articles in other websites – http://www.sportnetwork.net (ICF) – what is your email?
Thanks,
Gokul
In the US, the ugly riots of 1960’s for civil rights was largely responsible for Affirmative Action and todays pursuit of “diversity” by education and industry.
I wish to highlight this because I find it remarkable that this type of groundswelling is highly conspicous by its complete absence in the Indian context. The cat is happily and quietly licking her whiskers at the corner eyeing the bowl of milk being pushed to it.
Also, doesnt reservation-in-education run contrary to reservation-in-jobs ? You just helped a bunch of underprepared kids to get into college. But now they cannot get jobs because they failed in their studies. Ok, now you have to get them a job as well. So why did you let them occupy a precious seat at an educational institution in the first place ? Why didnt you just give them a job when they turn 20 ? Or even better, why do you need to give them a job all ? Just write them a cheque every month under the pretext of reserved-salaries. Isnt this what it is. Pay-the-SCs/STs-at-all-costs scheme ?
It seems India is yet again true to its record of formulating random top-down policies which will cost generations after generations their futures and livelihood.
Boy, am I happy to be out of there.
Some disclosures before start: I don’t think the Ram Vilas Paswan rocks. I also happen to be a dalit who works in the Indian private sector and a admirer of Great Bong and his blog… …A very pertinent subject. My take on this…..
The Myth: India is a free market economy where, meritocracy rules and people are hired for talent:
Reality:
In India, people are sometimes hired because of they are most suitable for a job , but sometimes they are hired because they belong to the same caste as the recruiter. And as Dalits are mostly peons and chaprasis in most companies they get hired as peons and chapriasis. Great Bong..I guess you have been too long out of India to remember the phrase “Apna admi hai, jara dhyan rakhna†. The result most companies in India are run by people who have been in the business community. Just look at the names of people in the senior management of most private sector companies…2 or 3 caste groups dominate ( I will not take names but you know the traditional business classes). There is not a single Dalit as far as I know who runs or is even in senior management of a private sector company, despite reservations and all….
I have mixed feelings about reservations, and can understand the feelings of people who have been denied seats in educational institutions because of their caste. I have never used reservations myself , but have seen the benefits of reservations among my extended family. And I think they have a place in India ..
The concept of Merit: Merit in the private sector is not just intelligence, but can mean a whole host of things like confidence, the way you look, even the ability to speak in English. And often these are determined by socialization and your education…I have seen many very bright Dalit students being handicapped just because they went to badly run rural government schools….admittedly this is a problem that many upper caste poor students also face.
I think just dismissing reservation as a vote bank politics is simplifying the issue… ( though this is a result of democracy like elsewhere in the world like Malaysia and South Africa). If you have forgotten how it is India, Great Bong, caste is still one of the biggest factors around often which determines which job you get, whom you marry and how much money you have. Things are changing for the better…but a bit too slowly and so the noises coming from politicians..
Some links which are much more eloquent that I am about this issue. Check them out…
http://indiatogether.org/2005/apr/soc-rsvstudy.htm
http://indiatogether.com/2005/dec/ivw-jadhav.htm
Vinod
Great Bong,
There is this thing in the US (I think it is the same as what is referred to as ‘affirmative action’ above). How does it work in the US? I do see this “we are an equal opportunity employer” line on Americcan websites – how is the euql opportunity quantified in US? Is it similar to reservations in India? If it works in US, how come it does ? In what way is the US situation in this regard different from India?
I know I probably sound like a clown, but would like to hear your answer.
PS: I do not belong to SC/ST – I am an “OBC” – but never took recourse to any advantage due to that (probably because I cleared JEEE … else of course…;)
Anyway, look forward to what you say about above.
Thanks.
one thing which i dont understand is the reason for having reservations in jobs. after all, if a person uses reservation to get a seat in some college, he is imparted the same education as his peers. in some institutions his fees may be waived etc.
now despite all this, if he doesnt do well in his studies, he does not deserve the job over another candidate. are any of the supporters of reservation willing to be operated by a quota doctor ? he may have barely passed, but still he gets the job coz its reserved.
and what about the children of a Dalit IAS officer ? wouldnt they have had the better opportunities at school ? but still they can use reservation to get admission into a college. further, their caste certificate allows them to get a job. clearly, we are not moving in the right direction.
Link
@Sachin:
Also, tell me that apart from voting for a certain party, and sometimes even donating money, what has anyone here done to bring up a temple at a place there was a mosque before?
Well they did pull down the Babri masjid if you remember.
As to the rest of your point, maybe I didnt make myself clear. People dont like competition and neither do companies. People want assured jobs and companies want assured profits. Which is why people want “reservations” and companies want “protection”. But only SC/STs will get resevations and people who will lose their jobs to them want a fair competition. That’s all thats being asked for.
Again without training SC/ST’s the competition wont be fair—I am well aware of that. But getting the job is the “gold medal”—you cant hand that away without any race being run in the first place.
@Adir: Valid point. So backward classes get into the private sector. Will their promotions be also mandated by law? Does every private company have to have 2 Dalit VPs? When are we going to stop this madness?
@Supremus: That’s all it is—vote bank politics of the worst kind. Congress’s attempt to bite into the vote bank it lost after Mandal.
@Bengali Guy: True. This is just equivalent to writing a cheque for Dalits—which is what votebank politics is all about…writing cheques for constituents.
@Gokul: My email id is on the side pane of the blog and I have also posted it in one of the other posts where you commented. You are free to put up any Ganguly posts on the website as long as
1) I am credited
2) A link-back to my blog is provided.
@Anon1: What you said is true—looking after one’s own kind is an inherent trait in Indian work culture. However in this case the bias is not against Dalits alone—it is based on religion, region and even choice of food (veg vs non-veg…yes I have heard friends feel they are not “popular” at work because they are non veg). So why single out the Dalit non-Dalit divide? Having said that, these “looking after one’s own kind” is much less in private companies where one’s contribution is measured by rational metrices like productivity. Does that mean its all fair? No of course not. But statistically, following the law of large numbers, things happen to balance themselves out equitably.
As to things like soft skills, I am all for special subsidized training to Dalits that will bring them upto speed with the rest. But with a restriction: if your father or anyone above him availed of reservations you CANNOT do so.
@Anon2: Equal Opportunities means you cannot be discriminated on the basis of sex, gender, veteran status or sexual orientation in the workplace. In US after the Vietnam war there was a lot of bad blood for Viternam veterans for basically losing the war and they were greeted with hostility (see “First Blood”) and often refused jobs. EO means that you will not be discriminated against—it has nothing to do directly with Affirmative Action as far as I know.
@Anon3: Very true. Once he gets into college, he should be the same as everyone. However this issue is not really about fairness or proper policy—its about bribing a section of the population for captive votes.
Actually, this step does not go far enough. The judiciary and armed forces should also have reservations put in place.
Then, students taking GRE, and going abroad for higher studies mostly comprise upper caste students. The Indian govt should demand that among the Indian students offered admission and/or scholarship to US universities, an adequate percentage must be reserved according to GOI norms. Also, this proposal only talks about reservations in the Indian private sector.. but what about H1B visas? Reservations should be put in place so that an appropriate percentage of Indian H1B visa recepients belong to the reserved categories. Of course, it goes without saying that the same policy should be in place when US govt grants Green cards to people from India.
While we are at it, we also need to fine tune the reservation policy. I propose we perfect the system and limit representation to the exact percentage of poulation. So if, say, 0.2% of the Indian population has the surname Ghosh (like yours truly), then only 0.2% of positions should go to people with the surname Ghosh. Exactly 0.2% (no more and no less, mind you) of engineers, doctors, IAS officers, lawyers, and most importantly, cricketers should have the surname Ghosh. I know what we you are thinking of.. the Indian cricket team has only 11 places.. how do we implement this there.. well, we would have to make do with broader categories over there, like SC/ST/OBC and also Bengali. That would also have the fringe benefit of eliminiating the Ganguly debate once and for all, as all would agree that he is probably the best Bengali candidate for the cricket team right now.
P.S. Arnab: I liked your earlier mug better.
In a country where education is a right, you’d think it would make more sense to improve the quality and reach of the government funded schools. Give people of all castes and equally good education and you have an equal playing field on which to judge merit. OR there’s the easier way out, which is to create more and more reserved categories. And this way, you get votes too – that it is actually strengthening the idea of caste and resentment between castes is irrelevant, as long as you have your votebank, right? *rolls eyes*
The whole issue depresses me.
I appreciate the dignified arguments put forth by you all. I believe Reservation as it is being argued today is no longer for the needy but for the lazy. Reservations for SCs/STs has been there since Independence and nobody seems to object that. And rightly so. But now people are making all sorts of arbitary demands like reservation for OBC, EBC, Muslims, Dalits among Minorities etc. Obviously there is no historical evidence to suggest that these communities were socially oppressed at any point in the past. Their misery is due to their economic backwardness and failed leaders. Today such leaders are showing them the easy route that of reservation instead of the hard one based on education and competence. The worst manifestation of such politics is this demand for reservation in private sector. Corporations have every right to choose the best available candidates. If they are prejudiced based on their caste, they are doing it at their own peril. Its easy to point out the disproportionate presense of so called higher class people in say Software Industry and demand reservation. But this is a very convenient way to hide the fact that despite the forced-reservation at levels of schooling, people from backward classes are still struggling to compete with the rest. Indeed the problem lies at the lower levels, the kind of education and social environment provided to backward classes. This were we should concentrate.
ps: I am afraid Ram Vilas Paswan sucks for me and I can only blame such politicians for the sorry plight of many communities.
Indians are idiots! thats all i can say after my stay in Bangalore! forget the illiterate ppl who can be easily manipulated. Here , even literate people , engineers to be precise have this kind of hatred towards outsiders and this love for kannada which they feel everybody else living and breathing in bangalore SHOULD have! I think the india is the india we know bcoz we all were beggars at the time of independence. india today is like calling the entire europe a whole country. the differences are so wide and ppl just refuse to learn!
in engineering colleges, the have quotas for castes and have no restrictions of any kind. obviously really stupid ppl who have no chance of making it in the industry take up the job of profs. this is not restricted to castes , but generally bcoz the castes wallahs have no restrictions they have it easy. these profs , with their narrow perspective play with the careers of students, fail them in the vivas, ask their kids to check the university papers , take coaching classes when they are the paper setters and cover everything in class , make ppl cry during vivas, then console girls by telling them that its for their own good bcoz thats what expected in the industry . something strange bcoz they NEVER have been in the industry!
with quota in the pvt insitutions , meritocracy will go for a toss. all of a sudden you are reporting to an idiot boss just bcoz he is of a lower caste than you! the reason why ppl dont join govt services , IAS is bcos of this reservation issue! if the same goes for indian companies ppl will work for mncs or go abroad.
everybody knows everything and thats why its called the great indian tamasha!
In general, I agree with what you have to say.
What I don’t get is why you support Paswan. Or maybe you have just not seen his antics in Bihar…..
do away with caste
Good one
Too bad that pyschologically one is forced to put a “disclaimer” that you aren’t a high-class Br. Shouldn’t that be immaterial .. ideally ?! but yeah, it isn’t an ideal world
“Indians are idiots! thats all i can say after my stay in Bangalore”
Amazing article… I totally agree with you.
But what about this site????? greatbong????
when eveyone else is mad about their respective mother tongue… I think kannadigas getting mad at ppl abusing their mother tongue is totally justified…( Not to forget… abuse by ppl who stay here … eat here and then spit here)
Why only talk about kannadigas…
Go to Keral and see what they do to you ( Its a different thing that you choose not to go there…) … Go to TN and try speaking in Hindi and see what they do to you… or just go look at all Indians who display that look of satisfaction which says nothing but ” I love America” as soon as they step into that country.
EVERYONE HAS WRITTEN IN SMALL LETTERS SO I WILL WRITE IN CAPITAL LETTERS, SO THAT AT LEAST SOMEONE WILL READ THE REPLY. 🙂
1) I WANT TO SAY ONE THING, THAT THE AUTHOR OF A BLOG DOESN’T HAVE AN IDEA ABOUT THE CUT-OFF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GENERAL CATEGORY CANDIDATE AND RESERVED CATEGORY CANDIDATE ?
FOR YOUR INFO. IT’S NEVER MORE THAN 5%.
I AM STUDYING FOR UPSC AND I AM GENERAL CATEGORY CANDIDATE BUT I DON’T HOLD ANY SUCH BIAS AGAINST RESERVED CATEGORY CANDIDATES.
2) THE WAY AUTHOR HAS WRITTEN A BLOG IS SO HUMOROUS THAT I CAN’T MAKE MYSELF STOP LAUGHING. IT LOOKS LIKE THAT HE MEAN TO SAY THAT BY JUST HAVING A CERTIFICATE OF BY VIRTUE OF BEING RESERVED CASTE BY BIRTH MAKES YOU AN IAS OFFICER OR A SURE JOB RESERVED FOR YOU.
THIS IS THE MYTH SPREAD BY US BUT IT’S NOT IN THE GREATER INTEREST OF INDIAN UNION. ( IN WHICH REGIONALISM IS GROWING AT A VERY RAPID PACE WITH NO SIGN OF STOPPING, HEAVILY UNDERMINING NATIONALISM )
IN DELHI WHILE STUDYING I SEE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT RESERVED CATEGORY CANDIDATE BECOMING AN OFFICER BY JUST GETTING 0%.
DO YOU THINK THIS CAN BE TRUE ? CAN A PERSON GETTING A DIFFERENCE OF 20-30% BE SELECTED AS AN OFFICER OR CAN HE BE RECOMMENDED FOR JOB ? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
3) IF YOU ARE SO MUCH SURE ABOUT THE INCOMPETENCY OF A RESERVED CATEGORY CANDIDATE, THEN WHY NOT YOU ASK THE RECRUITING AUTHORITIES TO REVEAL THE CUT-OFF MARKS OF ALL THE CANDIDATES ? WHY KEEP MUM ABOUT THIS ?
BECAUSE WHEN CUT-OFF WILL BE RELEASED THEN YOU WILL SEE THERE ISN’T MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VARIOUS CATEGORIES OF STUDENTS.
ALL THESE MISINFORMATION IS SPREAD TO KEEP THE THOUSANDS YEARS OLD HOSTILITY ALIVE BETWEEN UPPER AND LOWER CASTES OF INDIA BECAUSE RESERVATION HAS DEBARRED GENERAL CATEGORY STUDENTS FROM 49.5% OF SEATS.
4) IF YOU REGULARLY READ THE NEWSPAPERS THEN YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED THAT THE DIRECTOR OF IIM HAS SAID ( DURING THE PERIOD OF OBC RESERVATION ) THAT, ” THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AMONG GENERAL AND RESERVED CATEGORY STUDENTS AND THEY PERFORM IN IIM IN THE SAME WAY AS GENERAL CATEGORY STUDENTS ”
THEN WHY SUCH DOUBLE STANDARD FOR REVEALING THE MARKS ? IF THERE IS RTI THEN WHY NOT EVERYTHING BE OPEN ? LET THE MARKS BE REVEALED.
5) SACCHAR COMMITTEE REPORT HAS CLEARLY STATED THE STATE OF DIFFERENT GROUPS IN INDIA.
IN THE REPORT YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ” UPPER CASTE ” AND ” MUSLIMS, SC, ETC.”
AND THE PLIGHT OF SC’S ARE EVEN MORE WORST THAN THE MUSLIMS.
6) SO DO YOU THINK THEY DON’T NEED ANY RESERVATION WHATSOEVER.
YOU ARE MADE TO THINK THAT THEY DON’T REQUIRE ANY RESERVATION OR ETHICALITY OF RESERVATION. SINCE THE % OF GRADUATES AMONG UPPER CASTES IS A LOT HIGH COMPARED TO OTHER GROUPS, SO ALSO THE COMPETITION FOR SEATS AMONG THEM, SO ALSO THE DISCONTENT, AND MAKING THEM FEEL THAT THEY ARE LOOSING THE SEATS WHICH THEY WOULD HAVE GOT IF THEY WOULD HAVE BELONGED TO THE RESERVED CATEGORY ? BUT THIS ISN’T TRUE.
7) AND THERE IS ONE MORE THING FUNNY ABOUT AUTHOR HE IS TAKING 5000 YEARS OF HISTORICAL DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PEOPLES ( ESP. DALITS ) AS A “NO” RELEVANT FACTOR.
HOW CAN THIS BE NOT A FACTOR TO ACCORD PREFERENTIAL FACILITIES TO RESERVED CATEGORIES.
8) SACCHAR COMMITTEE HAS CLEARLY REVEALED ALL THESE THINGS. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THEN, GRADUATE PEOPLE % AMONG UPPER CASTE ( BASICALLY GENERAL CATEGORY ) IS 15% AND FOR DALITS IT’S 2-2.5%.
SEE THE DIFFERENCE AND STILL YOU SAY THEY DON’T REQUIRE RESERVATION.
9) AND IMAGINE A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION ( YOU MAY FIND IT HUMOROUS ) BECAUSE EVERY RELIGION OF A WORLD HAS DEVELOPED CASTE SYSTEM ( WHICH WESTERN PEOPLE SAY ” RACE ” AND WE CALL IT ” CASTE ” ),
SUPPOSE ALL KINDS OF RESERVATION ARE DISSOLVED THEN CAN YOU GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL MARRY A GIRL IRRESPECTIVE OF HER CASTE/SUB-CASTE/VARNA/GOTRA/PRAVARA STATUS OR RELIGIOUS STATUS, AND MAKING INDIA TRULY A ” MELTING POT ” OF CASTES AND RELIGIONS AND LEADING TO JUST ONLY ONE THING I.E. IDENTITIY THAT ” WE ARE INDIANS ” WITH NO REGARD TO SO-CALLED SURNAMES.
10) ALL THE YOUNG, ENERGETIC, PEOPLE OF INDIA DON’T YOU THINK WE WOULD FEEL MORE PROUD IF WE CAN SHOW TO THE WORLD THAT:
” WE ARE ONE ” ,
” WE HAVE ONLY ONE RELIGION,I.E HUMANISM ” ,
” WE HAVE NO CASTES AND WE HAVE ONLY ONE IDENTITY WHICH WE ARE PROUD OF I.E BEING AN INDIAN ”
” WE SEE THE POSSIBILITY OF WORLD-STATE ” ( WHICH IS INEVITABLE IF PEOPLE OF THE COUNTRY FEEL THEY ARE THE ONE WITH NO RACIAL, RELIGIOUS, ETHNIC, CREED DIFFERENCES WHATSOEVER. BY THIS WAY, FIRST THE INTERNAL DIFFERENCES SHOULD BE RESOLVED IN THE COUNTRY THEN EACH COUNTRY WILL JOIN TO MAKE A “WORLD-STATE” AND PEOPLE A ” WORLD-CITIZEN”)
” WILL WORK TOGETHER TOWARDS COMBATING GLOBAL WARMING AND MAKING OUR EARTH ( I.E. EARTH OF ALL HUMAN BEING, PLANTS, ANIMALS, WITH NOT DIFFERENCE CLASSES, CASTES, RELIGIONS OF PEOPLE AND OF NATIONALITIES)
11) AND WITH ALL THIS THINGS RELIGION SHOULD WITHER AWAY, THOUGH IT HAS HELPED TO UNITE AND FORGE SIMILAR THINKING TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE. BUT BECAUSE OF MANY RELIGION AND HIERARCHY WITHIN THE RELIGION, IT HAS DONE CONSIDERABLE DAMAGE TO HUMANS AND IS STILL DOING, IF NOT STOPPED THEN ON THE NAME OF IT MAY ULTIMATELY BECOME THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF HUMANS.
12) I KNOW YOU MAY LAUGH ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS, BUT THINK SERIOUSLY ARE THEY NOT THE NEED OF TODAY AND FUTURE TO MAKE THIS WORLD SECURE AND FOR EVERYONE’S REALIZATION OF HIS OR HER’S POTENTIAL.
13) BECAUSE OF OUR DIFFERENCES WITH DON’T BELIEVE IN OTHER PERSON BUT BY BEING IN THE SAME RACE, CASTE, RELIGION, WE MAY BELIEVE THE OTHER PERSON OR THE BARRIERS TO BELIEVING OTHER IS CERTAINLY REDUCED.
IS THIS GOOD FOR ALL THE PEOPLES OF OUR BEAUTIFUL EARTH ? NO, FRIEND NO.
14) BUT TO MAKE THIS THING HAPPEN, WE SHOULD CERTAINLY MAKE THIS THING HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY, THEN EVERYBODY WILL NOTICE US SINCE THE DIFFERENCE AMONG THE PEOPLES IS HIGHEST IN INDIA THEN ANY OTHER COUNTRY OF THE WORLD.
15) AND PLEASE DONT’ LISTEN TO YOUR ORTHODOX, CONSERVATIVE PARENTS IF THEY DON’T ALLOW YOU TO MARRY A GIRL/BOY OTHER THAN YOUR CASTE, RELIGION, ETHNICITY ,ETC. THOUGH THEY ARE THINKING GOOD FOR YOU BY KEEPING IN MIND ” SHORT SPAN ” OF 60 YEARS, SO THAT YOU CAN LEAD YOUR LIFE RESPECTABLY BY ENJOYING YOUR SO-CALLED UPPER CASTE STATUS,
BUT DON’T, YES THEY DON’T THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HUMANS AFTER HUNDREDS OF YEARS, THEY CERTAINLY NOT. BUT YOU ARE THE YOUTH, WHO IS ASPIRING TO MAKE YOUR LIFE AND LIFE OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD AND PEOPLE AROUND YOU, BEAUTIFUL WITH NO RELIGIOUS, CASTEIST, RACIST, STRIFE.
SO RISE ABOVE THESE SO-CALLED THINGS BECAUSE WHAT THE MAN BECOMES NOT BY HIS/HER CASTE BUT BECAUSE OF HIS/HER PERSEVERANCE TOWARDS ACHIEVING MORE HIGHER LEVELS OF LIFE.
16) HOW CAN BY BIRTH ONE CAN BECOME BRAHMIN, KSHATRIYA, DALIT ,ETC. ?
SIMPLE ARGUMENT, WHEN ALL THE OCCUPATIONS HAS CHANGED THAT HOW CAN YOU STILL BELONG TO PARTICULAR CASTE WHEN YOU HAVEN’T READ A SINGLE PAGE OF VEDA’S OR NOT FOUGHT LIKE REAL ANCIENT KSHTRIYA ?
17) AND PLEASE STOP REGARDING ANY WORK AS DIRTY,LIKE SCAVENGER’S WORK ? ONLY BECAUSE OF HIM/HER YOUR HOUSE AND ENVIRONMENT IS CLEAN, YOU FAMILY IS IN GOOD HEALTH AND HAPPY.
18) RISE ABOVE ALL THIS, LETS CHANGE THE HISTORY ( IN WHICH THE SAME THING WHICH IS HAPPENING AGAIN AND AGAIN). LET’S MAKE IT REAL WORTHWHILE FOR US, FOR EARTH, AND FOR OUR PROGENY.
CONCLUSION: MY REQUEST IS ONLY THIS, REVEAL THE MARKS, CUT-OFF SCORE, IT WON’T DO ANY DAMAGE BECAUSE MYTH SPREAD AGAINST RESERVED CATEGORY IS SO HIGH THAT EVEN IF REVEALED MARKS DON’T COME IN THEIR FAVOUR THEN IT WON’T DO A DAMAGE AND IF IT COMES IN THEIR FAVOUR THEN IT WOULD CERTAINLY LEAD TO RECONCILIATION OF MISUNDERSTANDINGS.
Arnab:
Discrimination exists even in private industry. It is not talked about – because usually it is subtle.
Here’s a link:
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/caste-does-matter-in-pvt-sector/51259-3.html