Mumbai Meri Jaan

178 Comments

There have been several events that have taken place in Mumbai of late which I cannot let go without some comment.

For one, I must congratulate the Shiv Sena for tearing down posters of Kareena Kapoor’s bare back. Someone needed to do that, in order to save Indian culture and our collective sanity. [Link]

She is known as ‘Size Zero’ of the Indian Film Industry. So we decided, let’s just call her ‘Half a Bagel’. She is slim, sleek and sexy. Kareena Kapoor is taking Bollywood by storm since a year, and taking the paparazzi by frenzy whenever she is spotted with boyfriend and actor Saif Ali Khan. Off screen, Kareena, popularly known as Bebo in Bollywood, exudes a smaller-than-life, self deprecating persona. She always looks hopeful about her future, whether it’s family, films or Saif Ali Khan. She is unique. She has the sort of untouchable star quality about her. In person, she is quite remarkably beautiful and lean. So lean that she seems almost to be a trick of perspective.

I am sorry but this worshipping of super-leaness just has to stop. When your body seems to be an optical illusion (a trick of perspective) then you are not only a danger to yourself but also to society.  Here’s the deal. If I wanted to look at Kareena Kapoor’s bare back, I would be looking at a skeleton hanging in a dissection room thank you.

If the vulgarity of that emaciated back is not enough, the sheer “Look we are a hot couple. Write about us” Brangelina thing that Saif and Kareena have going just has to stop. It just has to. I of course knew this kind of outrage was going to happen the moment Kareena, a person who specializes in getting press attention through wanton public displays of ” I am so hawt” affection (remember the Shahid Kapoor kiss), hooked up with Saif Ali Khan yet another person who likes to keep his relationships in the news. In case I appear too harsh,  I would like to say that I have nothing personal against Saif and Kareena—it is just that I always detested “couples” in college and school who would go out of their way to show everyone how in-love they were.

What I knew got them off, like I am sure it does for Saif and Kareena,  was not so much the fact that they were together but that so many of us others were not.

So Saifeena shoo shoo, go and adopt some babies like your inspiration Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie please and spare us displays of what a great couple you are. Please.

On the topic of hurting sentiments and Marathi pride, Sachin Tendulkar was rightfully dragged over the coals by Balasaheb for the following un-necessary remark.

” But I am an Indian first. And Mumbai belongs to all Indians.”

Yes Sachin, we know you play for Mumbai Indians. We got it dude. Now will you please go back, stop your franchise from retaining the services of Luke Ronchi (from Ranchi) and Saurabh Tiwari (from Bihar), score a couple of more centuries and not say anything that pisses off the great Balasaheb, his equally redoubtable nephew and their great Sena of supporters.

The third is of  Rahul Bhatt’s link with super-terrorist Headley. Now I am sure that Papa Bhatt, who specializes in turning his life-experiences into movies (as an example look at how many times he has flogged his affair with Parveen Babi, which some people may consider to be exploitative of the poor lady) will use this incident to make a movie (or two). Like handsome hunk bar-guitarist Amar (played by Emraan Hashmi) meets a hot-looking firang Sam (played by random beefed-up third-rate actor from Europe or the US), they get close, very close till Amar discovers that Sam is actually a terrorist who has come to finish off India because India has tortured its minorities.  The movie will then build on that dramatic conflict with stellar performances by Commissioner Chauhan (Avatar Gill), cocaine-snorting model Lucy (Kangana Ranaut) who pines for Amar, Pakistani handler Hawas Kashmiri (Gulshan Grover) with beautiful “Mushy”  music by Pakistani musical duo Pervez-Omar and lovely ballads like “Oh balaam ‘Ji Had’ kar di aapne” and hot foot-tappers like “Quatilana” (with a lounge remix),  “Toiba Toiba Tera Jalwa” and “Jaish-e-Jashn” (with trance mix) , finally leading to triumphant openings in Lahore, Karachi and an explosive one in Rawalpindi.

And I shall now leave you, off-topic, with a picture that was forwarded to me by Gurudutt Redkar, a picture that convinces me that there is God. And that not only does he have a sense of humor but that he loves “Gunda” as much as we do.

Advertisements

178 thoughts on “Mumbai Meri Jaan

  1. I stand corrected. The topic was enigmatic. All said Mumbai remains the happening place it is. The cynosure of the media eyes. A mystery which books like Shantaram or Maximum City try to decipher.
    Just to cite an example the Tolly affair of Param and Swastika or shall i say Parastika somehow dragged itself to page 3 in some dailies but no one cared. On the other hand everythng right from Kareena’s shooting break to her smooching prowess are dissected by the media.
    We are like that only!

  2. Your Mahesh Bhatt movie is spot on , only thing missed is it would either be directed by his other fav nephew Mohit Suri keeping it all in the family. Glad you enjoyed the facebook pic BTW.

  3. I wish I would have been as free as various Sena’s in Mumbai… Then even I would be keeping track of which movie posters are up, who is saying what about Mumbai or using word Bombay in dialogues. So that I could have joined them in destruction of public property…

    Senayi – Balasaheb balasaheb Karan Johar ne abhi abhi ek reporter ke saamne chatrapati shivaji terminal ko victoria terminal kaha

    BalaSaheb – Chalo bulao media ko…

    Saala Koi Kaise itna free ho sakta hai yaaar!!!

  4. For all of Balasaheb’s grandstanding, the writing is pretty much on the wall. Raj blows Uddhav out of the water in terms of political influence, and Balasaheb is an aging warhorse. Taking potshots at Marathi manoos icons is only going to make matters worse.

    By the way Asad, Swastika is way hotter than Kareena. No amount of PR bullshit can change that.

  5. true story this: one of my friends from hostel called me up and said he was in ranchi and if i could meet him. i asked him where he was. after like five seconds of silence he said- there is something wrong with my cellphone, it says i am in chutia.
    i will meet you there, i said.

  6. After the Mumbai terror attacks, investigation agencies tracked the ip address of the system from which the mail has come. The mail came from a posh residential area in Mumbai. An American was taken into custody, then within couple of days he was let off and he went back to America. I am not able to recollect his name. Now we have an American citizen in custody of FBI who planned the attacks. I might be thinking a lot but there is something missing in this entire investigation.

  7. About Raj and his Uncle Thakeray…
    Too parochial to be of any good.

    They are giving that [unsubstantiated allegation] Abu Aazmi, a platter full of delicious legitimacy.

  8. Most of the times, my thought process runs on the same lines on what GB blogs upon. However, being a marathi manus myself, I beg to differ completely on Balasaheb’s “equally redoubtable nephew”. Hindi and English media have made Raj into a villian. He is one of the brightest young political prospects like Rahul Gandhi, Ajit Pawar, Omar Abdulla. He is a natural leader. Not a single politician (including Sharad Pawar) in Modern Maharashtra commanded so much at the age of 41. Do you think it is easy to garner 13 assembly seats single handedly without some real fire in the belly? Raj is extremly thorough and well-planned. Not that I support all the MNS ways, I do find him to be one with lot of poltical will-power to bring in a change.

  9. Vinayak,

    Am curious. Besides of course his partymen making Karan Johar apologize for using the word Bombay and of him demanding 100% reservation for Marathis in all India banks and of his partymen physically beating up people from other parts of India coming to take exams in the state, what exactly has Raj done? And even if he has done something, there is no way this kind of regressiveness that is inimical to our survival as an united nation can be considered to be progressive.

  10. GB, as I said, I am not at all for MNS ways of doing things. At the same time, apart from the things that you have mentioned, Raj is getting support primarily in Urban maharashtra because what he is saying, is touching people somewhere. Typically, big cities like Mumbai, Pune, Nashik are the places where there is lot of pressure on infrastructure. And believe me, being closer to the ground now and having stayed abroad for years, Raj’s argument does seem to have a point. These are the places where MNS is going strong. If you get a chance, do listen to what Raj is saying carefully. You will also notice that he is not against north indians, but against the way political leaders like Abu Azami try to use these people as leverage. In Raj, you will see a genuineness which is utterly lacking in most of our politicians.
    Also, re. Marathi pride, why is it that only Mumbai/ Bombay, always becomes a news. Did KJ not know that such things will create controversy. Bombay became Mumbai in 1996. Did KJ do it intentionally? How many people do you hear calling Chennai as Madras now a days ?
    As for the jobs, I support merit based recruitment. But do you really believe, that central recruitments (railways etc.) always happen on merit ? Do check out MNS web site to find our more abt MNS.
    Disclaimer: I am not a MNS activist nor I do I believe in beating up innocent people.

  11. @Vinayak Kale: It staggers me that otherwise (presumably) educated Maharashtrians like you also support demagogues like Raj Thackeray. And I know you are not alone. I have seem many letter sin newspapers defending his actions. In fact I even read letters excoriating Sachin for “not thinking before speaking” and “hurting Marathi sentiments”.

    Why on earth should Sachin, or me, or anyone for that matter have to worry about Marathi ‘sentiments’ all the time? Why should I not be allowed to use any language I want to, when it is legally allowed? People like you seem to think that the ‘outsiders’ are taking away your “Marathi Asmita” illegally.

    I posit that if you had any Asmita at all, you would prove yourself in related fields and the job market rather than whinging all the time about how you are persecuted (Need an example? Your own statement about how the Hindi AND English media is against Raj! Ha!).

    Raj Thackeray is expertly exploiting this persecution complex, and using blinkered people like you. His solution, the quick-fix one of course, is to hit out violently, regardless of laws or propriety. In any other country where there was a rule of law, he would have been in jail by now.

    If Raj sincerely feels that Marathi Manoos are as good as, if not better than the Biharis and the UP-ites, let him ask the Marathi Manoos to prove it, instead of preventing others from earning a living.

    Natural leader? Brightest prospect? Yes, but only because in India the goondas’ prospects are always the brightest.

  12. @Vinayak – ….. thinking…..

    still thinking…..

    Forget it. Tum nahin samjhoge – Jao jake us aadmi ka statement leke aao jisne ‘Akhand Bharat’ ka nara diya, phir mein statement dunga.

  13. @Vinayak,

    I cannot speak for Chennai but I can say that noone made Sudhir Mishra apologize for using the word “Calcutta” in “Calcutta Mail” even though our cities name officially in Kolkata. I dont think anyone in Mumbai also cared about Bombay Boys. It is now an issue because a party which relies on violence and street justice chooses to make it an issue. As a matter of fact what would be even sadder is if educated people are actually be offended by someone referring to their city by its old name, which mind you is not pejorative in any way. And do I believe that government jobs happen on merit? No. But the solution to that is 100% reservation for Marathis? Is that a merit-based argument?

  14. A question – why is Bombay Times still called Bombay Times and not Mumbai Times? I am sure that everyone in Mumbai, including the Thackerays have noticed this. Is ToI too strong to take on? Or more likely, even they don’t want anything that is as poor a rag as Bombay Times is to be associated with their holy ‘Mumbai’.

  15. Everybody is criticizing Raj Tahckery, but nobody is looking at the facts. Yes, nobody can deny the freedom to live anywhere, but how long it will continue ? Govts in UP, MP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Jarkhand, etc, never care for their people. Actually those states have more minerals, natural resources, but they have been failing to create jobs and there has been 0% growth in aspect. All those states fail to perform, leave their citizens no option but to migrate to cities like Mumbai, creating lot of pressure on already densely populated cities. These kind of situations create politicians like Raj Thakcery. On one hand, I feel bad when MNS goondas beat up innocents, but on the other hand, I thank him for sending a message to these states. How long those states would live like parasites ? Why they cannot create business centers like Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad ? Why the citiznes there never protest and simply migrate to Mumbai ? To be frank, I too see some kind of justice in MNS actions.

  16. @Kishor, So, what are you suggesting? Do you seriously think the governments of UP, MP, Bihar etc. would be least interested in creating jobs in their state only because people from their states are being beaten up in Bombay?

    Is this hooliganism and bullying the way we gonna solve this issue?

    And what about the uproar over Abu Azmi’s speech in Hindi? That is also justified innit?

    And Using the word Mumbai instead of Bombay – What is the issue there?

  17. I support Vinayaka Kale. Raj looks to be a very cunning politician. I am not a Marathi nor do i stay in Maharastra. My comment is based on whatever i noticed in last election in Maharastra and this post by Gaurav
    http://gauravsabnis.blogspot.com/2009/10/on-raj-thackeray.html

    We so called “educated people” should think on why people like Raj Thackary are getting so many followers and assembly seats rather than just rejecting them outright. He is properly exploiting whatever opportunities (English media, infrastructure issues in Mumbai, sensitivities of Marathi youth etc) he is getting. even though its wrong in absolute sense, its getting him where he wants to be.

  18. observation 1. it is ok to take your oath either in english (which is not an indian language) or in marathi…. but if you speak any other indian language you are supposed to be unwelcome.

    observation 2. can’t get a decent job in my own state because the bloody government has screwed up the situation; can’t live and work elsewhere in a country in which i am a citizen because locals won’t let me…. next thing that will come up is interstate visas…. aaargh….

    observation 3. safest strategy is to leave the country and write a blog from the other side of the globe and leave everybody else to fight over it in the comments section….

    “ja khushi tai dao na likhe/
    byakhya kore chitro enke/
    tomay to ar dhorchhe na keu/
    jhogra koruk tin shalik-e.”

  19. Hi GB,

    Nice to see a good debate going on. On a bit of unrelated issue: pls pls write about some of the recent happenings in Cal (yes I note you’ve written Red Eye…still), e.g.:

    i. Kabir Suman’s diatribe aginst TMC (his facial expressions while being interviewed by Star Ananda is priceless!!),
    11. Didi’s industrialization plans, incl Singur.

    Cheers!

  20. This is how it is. The PDA, the attention-grabbing tactics, the fake undying love for India, the atrocities in the name of patriotism …..so on…..are all now an inevitable part of what defines our culture today. Unfortunately, i too don’t have any answer for them. The solution i have in mind and so that many others too certainly have would get conveniently lost in the power game!

  21. Seems my comment is being misunderstood. I cleary don’t support MNS agenda of ‘Mumbai is only for Marathis’. My question is why the situation of migration to Mumbai from northern states has been going on for over 50 years ? It is very sad to note that these people leave their villages just to earn daily bread, work for even Rs. 50 a day. What have these govts been doing to create employemnt, growth, and to prevent brain drain Is brain drain only related to Indians leaving the country ? Do states have no contribution to growth ? These states do nothing and create a lot of ruckus in media when somebody beats them in Mumbai. Who is going bell the cat ? In that aspect, MNS is doing the right thing. At least, now at least some people will pressurize their local govts to perform and feed its own people.

  22. @GB. No. 100% reservation is definately not the solution. Personally, if I have to recruit, I will not hesitate for a min, if I find a Non-marathi better than a Marathi. It should be based on merit and merit only, provided all are given equal opportunities.

    Bombay/ Mumbai may not make any material differece, however, when people like Abu Azami, KJ deliberately do it knowing that many Maharashtrians don’t like it, then the reaction happens (may be from a small portion).

    @Shan
    Assuming that you have read my comment and (presumably) understood it correctly, just reiterating what I meant.

    1. Wise people say “Be a roman while in Rome”. Similarly, be a Maharashtrian while in Maharashtra. Be a part of its culture. Raj had made interesting definition of ‘Marathi Manus’ during his election campaigns.

    2. Reg. rule of law, isn’t it ironic that people like Lalu, Mulayam and their ilk talk about it too. -:)

    3. Natural leader and prospect: Is there still a question about his natural leadership after assembly elections ? I have named Rahul Gandhi, Omar Abdulla as well as young prospect along with Raj. It is the genuinness with which they come across. Same quality you will see in Raj. Praniti Shinde also has that quality but Amit Deshmukh does not seem to have.

    4. Urban masses support: Considering that Maharashtra is well-literate state, why are many educated people also supporting Raj. Coz, in urban areas, life is becoming increasingly difficult due to uncontrolled influx.

    @Nilesh
    Gaurav Sabnis is very close on the subject. I do agree with him.

  23. @Rakesh:

    There are no easy answers to this problem. Everyone (marathi or not) condemns the ways of Raj Thackeray. But the real issues raised by him are not covered by the media (not that Raj minds it, but he uses that to create a “us versus them” hysteria, somewhat like Narendra Modi has so efficiently achieved).
    Who takes the ownership to create jobs and opportunities in the states mentioned by Kishor? Raj Thackeray or Abu Azmi(who conviniently migrated out of Azamgarh) If Azmi is so hellbent to lead a public life in service of the nation, why not do something for the very place he comes from. I know this argument does not hold water legally and there will be people who will show portions of constitution to me. But this debate is much more than that.
    The bottomline is – No one wants to dirty their hands by taking the initiative to clear up the rot in UP and Bihar. In those states, if you are in position of power, or have influence, then good for you or else you are left with no other option than migrating out.

    Has anything ever been said about Sunil Dutt who got elected time and again to the Lok Sabha from Mumbai?

    The fact remains that Mumbai (an in few years, Pune and Nashik) cannot take unauthorized migrants anymore. And its a no brainer that where this influx comes from.

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that sooner than later you will have similar protests taking place in other states which till now have not been subjected to the magnitude of migration that Maharashtra has faced till now. A microcosm of Shiv Sena or MNS is already in place in Karnataka. They are called the Karnataka Rakshana Vedike (KRV) – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnataka_Rakshana_Vedike

  24. For a change let’s ask:

    1. What to do with the Marathi manoos who work in Bangalore, Delhi & elsewhere? Shouldn’t they go back to Mumbai?
    2. Are all the employers in Mumbai Marathis? Isn’t it proper that they shift their businesses somewhere else?
    3. Why did they let Mumbai Indians be Mumbai Indians rather than Mumbai Marathis? And there are non-Marathi players in this team!!
    4. Why is Bollywood still making Hindi movies although it is based in Mumbai? And why hasn’t anyone objected to ‘B’ollywood so far?

  25. Dear Mallu-in-bangalore:

    I can understand your fears. Because Kerala is another parasite state and is called the Bihar of South India.

    Be brave.

  26. @Mallu in Bangalore:

    1. What to do with the Marathi manoos who work in Bangalore, Delhi & elsewhere? Shouldn’t they go back to Mumbai?

    PG: If they are unauthorized, live in illegally erected slums, drive taxis with fake permits from union (the list goes on), then they should be kicked out immediately.

    2. Are all the employers in Mumbai Marathis? Isn’t it proper that they shift their businesses somewhere else?

    PG: Certainly not. Neither are the employers Marathis nor they need to shift. No one has a problem with proper employment generation in organized sectors, and Marathis do not have a problem with any meritorious person coming from anywhere, getting a job in Maharashtra and live peacefully.
    But the question you need to answer is that why these employers are not so keen to set up shops in UP or Bihar? Think about it.

    3. Why did they let Mumbai Indians be Mumbai Indians rather than Mumbai Marathis? And there are non-Marathi players in this team!!

    PG: This is a innocuous jibe and not an argument in debate. I’ll take it sportingly.

    4. Why is Bollywood still making Hindi movies although it is based in Mumbai? And why hasn’t anyone objected to ‘B’ollywood so far?
    PG: Again, Bollywood does not hinder or cause problems in day to day life of a common man in Maharashtra. It grew in Mumbai because the first feature film was made by Dadasaheb Phalke. And no one stopped anyone from establishing the film industry in Delhi.

    PG (A bong in Maharashtra)

  27. @Kishor:

    You think Kerala is the Bihar of South India?? Please make that comparison clear. Many Indians work outside India. Are they all parasites? If Mallus get jobs, it is because they are more qualified than other candidates, thank you. And the last I knew, Indian constitution allowed me to work anywhere in India. I live in Bangalore. I am no parasite here. I also contribute to the growth/GDP of this city. That is called a symbiotic relationship.

    PG:

    Do only Biharis live in illegal slums? And even if they do, does that mean they have to be kicked out of Mumbai? That is unconstitutional, if you want to know. What is this ‘living unauthorized’ anyway? It is unfair to say that Mumbai wants the cream of the skilled labour, but cannot take the unskilled ones. The point I want to make is that Mumbai did not grow only because of Marathis. Other Indians also contributed to it’s growth, made it what it is today. In my view, it is perfectly ok for poor Biharis to work and live in Mumbai.

    And if Bal Thackerey gets offended because Sachin said that he is an Indian first, I don’t think why he is not offended by the name of Mumbai Indians team.

  28. Yes, I am making it clear that Kerala is Bihar of South India. Kerala has so many natural resources and receives highest rain fall, still they buy rice from Andhra. Yes, constitution gives u right to work anywhere, but as PG said, this is issue is more extensive than that. I don’t want to go on because it is an exercise in futile and goes nowhere.

  29. @PG

    I do not understand why people have to bring Narendra Modi in every other argument. People notice that he induced all the hatred but does anyone really realise how much he has done for the state of Gujarat. Most of the people who stay outside Gujarat think he’s a big bad guy who helped in killing Muslims in Gujarat but very few people know that many Muslims in Gujarat are big supporters of Narendra Modi. I would suggest that u should better not comment on something when u don’t really know the internal situation of a state.

    @GB: Sorry for going off topic but I really can’t take it when people criticise without really knowing the actual situation. Btw, really nice post:)

  30. @kishor

    Even i don’t want a futile argument. But please be clear of the facts. Kerala has more mountains than plains and a high density of population. We cultivate plenty of spices & cash crops in our hills and export it. Also, Kerala supplies water to Tamil Nadu to cultivate paddy, if you do not know. So, it is a two-way traffic. Yeah, it is true that we have to search for jobs elsewhere because of two reasons – there is a shortage of land for big industries, there are trade union problems for others. So what should we (common man in Kerala) do? Should we die of hunger? That’s why we get educated and search for jobs.

    I understand that Mumbai is overflowing. But it is not right to point to poor Biharis and ask them to leave Mumbai. It is not the answer to Mumbai’s problems. Nobody owns a city.

  31. @PG: “Everyone (marathi or not) condemns the ways of Raj Thackeray”. In response to that, just read the above posts and especially these lines…

    Vinayak: He is one of the brightest young political prospects like Rahul Gandhi, Ajit Pawar, Omar Abdulla. He is a natural leader.

    Kishor: On one hand, I feel bad when MNS goondas beat up innocents, but on the other hand, I thank him for sending a message to these states.

    “Who takes the ownership to create jobs and opportunities in the states mentioned by Kishor?”

    You cannot beat up innocent citizens and then say you’re teaching a lesson to the state. Fortunately (and I wish this never happens to anyone), Vinayak or Kishor have not been on the receiving end of this bashing. Only then would they understand the concepts about freedom and equality and the rights that this great country of ours has given to each citizen regardless of which state he/she comes from.

    “If they are unauthorized, live in illegally erected slums, drive taxis with fake permits from union (the list goes on), then they should be kicked out immediately.”

    Do you mean all of this is only done by people from other states? Do you mean, no marathis live in illegally erected slums and no marathis drive taxis with fake permits? Do you mean that Marathis are the most law abiding citizens India has ever produced?

    What Raj Thackrey does is he plays the politics of hate. There is nothing that works better than divide and rule and that is what he does. If uneducated people fall in that trap, it is understandable but it is up to the educated people like you and me to reject this drivel. Unfortunately, education these doesn’t contribute to creating better human beings, rather only better revenue generating machines. And quite a pity he still manages to win 13 seats, not because he’s a good leader but only because he gives people a reason to HATE.

    Just tell me, what is the difference between a human being from Maharashtra and a human being from UP? Call me Gandhi but sorry, I don’t get it.

    There are problems in Maharashtra and there are problems everywhere in the country but Raj is not the solution. He’s just the beneficiary.

  32. Again @Kishor:

    Forgot to add, we BUY rice from Andhra. You have any problem, huh?????

    I don’t have any more time to answer to ‘i-will-not-see-even-if-I-have-eyes’ types like you.

    Anyway nice article.

  33. All my roomies at IIT-Bombay saw Gunda the movie and were left speechless.

    Wise man say that there exists a God and he occasionally writes books through pseudo authors called prophets. I think Gunda was God’s attempt to explore film medium.

    Only good and uncorrupted souls like us probably have realized this.

    Who is the prophet is the question should it be Kanti shah or Shankar?

  34. @Tina:

    My intention was not to vilify Narendra Modi in anyway. For that matter I am a great fan of his. I am totally aware of all the laurels he has brought to the state of Gujarat and I feel blessed to have lived in Gujarat before migrating to neighboring Maharashtra only because of lack of IT industry in the state.
    Having said that, the point I was trying to make was that a politician does get benefit by being politically incorrect at times and using emotional rhetoric to get the people on his side. NaMo has mastered this art and used it to potent effect in assembly elections in 2007. 2007 was a fitting reply to the extremely negative media in the run-up to the election and I was very happy that he got the mandate and he got another 5 years to build an even stronger Gujarat.
    And now coming to Raj Thackeray, the analogy can be seen clearly. If you care to study his speeches in Marathi, you’ll notice the same modus operandi. Otherwise it was impossible for him to get 13 seats in Urban Maharashtra. He touched that emotional chord with people, similar to what you felt when NaMo said – “You(central Government) stop giving aid to Gujarat and stop taking any tax out of revenue generated in the state.”
    Again this is unconstitutional but when other states just don’t want to develop you will have more and more such challenges coming out of various regions.

    @Others:

    Talking of Hindi vs Non-Hindi , even the chief minister of Madhya Pradesh (whose mother tongue is Hindi and MP’s official language is Hindi) could not hold himself back and announced that the locals should be preferred over migrants from Bihar.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Shivraj-in-soup-for-anti-Bihari-remark/articleshow/5204507.cms

    So you see, its not about Hindi or North India Vs West India. The point is very clear that its high time UP and Bihar pull up their socks and start performing or else poor migrants from these states will be unwelcome everywhere.

    @Mallu in Bangalore:

    It is unfair to say that Mumbai wants the cream of the skilled labour, but cannot take the unskilled ones.

    PG: Mind sharing the burden brother? Our back is broken already.

    The point I want to make is that Mumbai did not grow only because of Marathis. Other Indians also contributed to it’s growth, made it what it is today.

    PG: People in Maharashtra are very well aware of who has contributed what to its growth and have expressed high amount of gratitude towards it. But are these migrants contributing to the growth? Does growth mean vote bank for Cong-NCP or SP ?

    @Rakesh:

    Only then would they understand the concepts about freedom and equality and the rights that this great country of ours has given to each citizen regardless of which state he/she comes from.

    PG: Sympathizing with someone is other thing and providing solutions is other. And No, I am not saying beating people is the solution but only if you had cared enuf to check the ground reality of day to day frustrations natives, would you have understood why Raj was able to create such an impact.
    And as far as providing solution goes Raj has advised handsomely to the native Marathi population to gear up and be competitive towards this challenge being posed by the migrants because he knows he cannot do anything about improvement of UP and Bihar.

    Do you mean all of this is only done by people from other states? Do you mean, no marathis live in illegally erected slums and no marathis drive taxis with fake permits? Do you mean that Marathis are the most law abiding citizens India has ever produced?

    Please alight at Mumbai Airport someday or any railway station in mumbai check out the Taxi drivers. You will know yourself. And only if there was a Statsguru to show the record of tenants in illegally erected slums, you would’ve helped yourself to your answer. Sad, but my friend thats the truth.

    What Raj Thackrey does is he plays the politics of hate.

    PG: Absolutely correct. And I have not voted for him. Never will. My intention of entering into this debate was not to be his spokesperson, but to put things into perspective. Getting emotional or quoting paragraphs of constitution is not going to solve the problem. Its just that Mumbai gets more sound bytes in media, people tend to single it out.

    If tomorrow due to over-saturation in Mumbai and rising gundagardi of MNS Mumbai falls out of favor of the people of UP and Bihar, and they chose to migrate to some other state, you will have similar agitations there as well. The examples to these I have mentioned in one of my previous comment and this one too.

  35. so people who come to USA/UK/AUS/CAN ..make a career .. make money etc. they actually embrace the country/culture/people.
    Shahrukh Ghaan has made millions .. become a superstar (of sorts) living in mumbai.. but will always claim “He’s a Dilliwaala”. (which actually i’m glad.. cuz i hate that cunt)…but u get the point. I know freedom of choice and blah..blah.. but the question is why is this endemic to bhaiyya-bihari population.

    How come gujjus, tamils, kannada, parsis who’ve migrated to mumbai/maharashtra speak marathi but bhaiyya-bihari’s don’t (which is quite ironic since marathi is so similar to hindi as opposed to malayalam, tamil etc.) …example: recently one Jaya Bachpan on purpose claimed she’s from UP so will not speak marathi at a press conference.

    marathi’s aren’t insecure.. rather fed up. Laloo keeps injecting TONS of biharis into railways (merit based Of course).. and the marathi youth (which is obviously such a lazy/goondagardi-esque lot) should just sit around chewing the right to migrate imaandari chewing gum.

    Raj thakre’s extreme methods will get support because its obvious thats the only thing that will make his point (in the media/assembly/streets).
    Incidentally if you actually watch Raj Thakre’s speeches (now AVAIALABLE on YouTube for your convinience) …
    He always says he doesn’t oppose anyone migrating to mumbai/maharashtra as long as they respect the marathi culture.
    He doesn’t have any problem with Chath pooja etc. just with people like Ram Vilas Paaswan who are using the Chath pooja as a show of power… while the media reported it as Raj Thakrey Insults Chath pooja.
    ….list goes on of how media will cherry pick his words.

    everyone’s vehemently opposing compulsory marathi oaths in the maharashtra assembly…

  36. @PG: “I am not saying beating people is the solution but only if you had cared enuf to check the ground reality of day to day frustrations natives, would you have understood why Raj was able to create such an impact.”

    Again PG, where is the logic? If you agree beating people is not the solution, then why speak in favour of a man who advocates that? And then you add a disclaimer that you don’t support him.

    Everybody is frustrated in India today for one reason or another. A politician like Raj Thackrey gives them a punching bag to vent out that frustration – this is what is called the politics of Hate and you agree to it. You’ve not voted for him, you never will. All Good.

    But then bringing the argument of oversaturation of Mumbai in a comment about Raj Thackrey’s hooliganism policy obviously means you’re justifying it. This is not putting things in perspective.

    Every major city sees an influx of migrants from smaller towns and villages, some see a larger influx than the other. This is a common problem all over the world. How is the migrant to blame for this state of affairs?

    Regarding Marathis being the most law abiding citizens, sorry to say, I was ripped off by a Marathi Taxi Driver when I once travelled to Mumbai but again I’m not making that a basis for my conclusion – Lets see some stats to prove that ONLY NORTH INDIANS BREAK THE LAW IN MUMBAI. This statement is as absurd and as hard as I may try, I cannot find an analogy to explain the absurdness of this statement.

  37. Well-written article.

    To PG:

    “Sympathizing with someone is other thing and providing solutions is other. And No, I am not saying beating people is the solution but only if you had cared enuf to check the ground reality of day to day frustrations natives, would you have understood why Raj was able to create such an impact.
    And as far as providing solution goes Raj has advised handsomely to the native Marathi population to gear up and be competitive towards this challenge being posed by the migrants because he knows he cannot do anything about improvement of UP and Bihar.”

    The rest of the guys here understand your frustration regding Mumbai bursting at its seams. But, do you think, the ‘Us vs. them’ argument would do ny gud?
    In fact, this is not confined to Mumbai alone. The Australian hooligans who beat up Indian students have legitimate reasons for doing so, from their vantage point – the same They are taking our jobs argument.

    If you are really concerned about Mumbai, you should look beyond the immigrants. The politicians like Raj are concerned about short-term political gains, nothing more.

  38. I lived in Kalyan for some time. One early morning, at the railway station…there were hundreds of people,( biharis/ UPites I do not know), sleeping on the the platform. Was later clear that they all came to Kalyan for some Railway exams.
    The issue here is, the said exams were NEVER advertised in any marathi/ mumbai based newspapers….. These are government jobs, and everyone has an equal right to attempt. These people came from miles away, to take local jobs, right under their noses. While they were not aware of existence of these jobs/ exams. The outrage led to violence, i think this was pre-MNS days….
    The violence is definitely not justified. Though a lot of people at the time belived it was all Laloo’s mahima ….biharis getting jobs in railway….

  39. I am Non size zero and i am tensed.

    I am not tense for not being a size zero or not having the latest sony vaio or not flaunting a buoy-friend double my age. i have neither opened my savings account in that honest branch of Ranchi.

    I am tense as my dad just told me that we are OBC and you told me Bala saheb has beaten even tendalaya for being a charlie jo “mu” ko “bo” bolta hai ekdum KJO ke mafiq.

    I am sad that if Maharashtra will recruit only marathis, bengal only bengalis and henceforth, mere jaise log kaha jayenge? USA? Arre brain drain koun bola? Big Boss ko bulao- angrezi mein baat karta hai!

  40. Actually that “Chutiya” branch is the only reson that has stopped Mamta didi from demanding that SBI revert back to it’s old name ie. “The Bank of Bengal” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  41. I’m Hari Sadu and I’m sick of the ‘taking our jobs’ whining. If everyone in this country learned how to make their own effing jobs, no mai ka laal would be able to take you job! What say, losers?

  42. 1. As an Indian, I have right to go anywhere, and take up a job anywhere, including Bombay, stop me.
    2. As an Indian, I can speak any language which I please, silence me. Apart from Hindi, I know Bhojpuri, Bengali, Punjabi, Assamese, Oriya, Gujrati, Rajasthani, German, Russian and English, right now learning Kannada and Telugu [and you can’t force me to learn Marathi, i’d learn it when I PLEASE, when you whine about it- it annoys!]
    3. Beating anyone doesn’t send message other than assailants are a frustrated good for nothing. Words may show Raj thakre is an Einstein, but actions prove he is no better than a local gunda.
    4. XYZ too did this thing [so that gives me the license to do a wrong? giving an example as the foundation is no logic. try proving it without giving example as logic, if it holds some water]
    5. Job Opportunities are for the best fitting. Whoever takes them, tht’s all. If you feel Marathis are so oppressed, and they are geniuses, then there are other exams, why not compete there, is railway the only exam in country [which allegedly is cheating]
    6. Kolkata, on an average has 60 Lakh daily visitors for jobs. Should people of Calcutta start cringing about it like Bombay [shoot me now] people?
    7. Not only Bombay, but Delhi, Calcutta, and Bangalore have Biharis and UPiites, does that mean they are not contributing anything to the growth? Does that anyways mean that growth of Maharashtra is superior to growth of India as a nation?
    8. How can you be so sure that people in squatters are majorly biharis and UPiites? Is there any data to prove that Marathis are all high strata people? Show me the data, and then talk, otherwise it’s a crap.
    9. My state is poor right now, and is developing, agreed, but this doesn’t give you right to spit on her, or send message, because you are not above constitution, or the country. You can do it on yourself, you have that constitutional right.
    10. Where was your Raj Thakre, when my friend died in 26/11 terrorist attack? What did he do then? Why is he mum about it? He wants to make Bombay a better place, what positive has he done to claim that?

  43. I laud GB for taking up the crucial issue… and for not pulling his punches. That picture of the skeletal display is just priceless !!!

    I apologise, in advance, to GB for voicing my not-so-politically correct thoughts (on the Marathi-Hindi issue) on his blog…As someone who is neither anti-Marathi nor anti-Hindi, I wish to point out why there’s more to it than meets the eye.

    @Rakesh, PG,

    Azmi’s family had vehemently opposed Hindi in Uttar Pradesh and advocated Urdu as state language.

    Communal Abu Asim Azmi trying to masquerade as the saviour of Hindi-speakers can be compared to Goebbels taking up the plight of the Jews. Azamgarhis like Azami seek to gleefully add fuel to the fire. And Azami very well knows that this fire will only burn Hindus, be it Marathi-speaking or Hindi-speaking.

    Dr.Pravin Togadia has unmasked Azmi’s real intentions on this issue. Here’s a relevant news-story on the oncologist’s take on the carcinogenic agenda:

    Togadia asks Marathis not to oppose Hindi

    Allahabad, Nov 11 (PTI) The VHP today asked the Marathis not to oppose Hindi or any other Indian language saying it was detrimental to national integrity. “The Vishwa Hindu Parishad ferevently appeals to the Marathis, who have fought for the interests of Hindus for four centuries, to refrain from opposing Hindi or any other Indian language, as such acts are detrimental to national integrity”, VHP Secretary General Praveen Togadia said in a statement here.

    The firebrand leader’s comments come in the wake of recent assault on SP MLA Abu Azmi in Maharashtra Assembly by MNS legislators for taking oath in Hindi. However, Togadia did not spare Azmi either, casting doubts on his credentials as a champion of Hindi.

    “Since when did people like Abu Azmi become champions of Hindi? Has he forgotten his roots in Azamgarh district of Uttar Pradesh, where Muslims have always practised an anti-Hindi and pro-Urdu brand of politics”. Togadia also alleged that Azmi was trying to “fragment the Hindu society by driving a wedge between Marathis and the Hindi-speaking people”.

  44. Dear all, particularly Kishor, Vinay Kale and anybody else who supports Raj Thackerey, or his (so called) ideology.

    You guys seem to have raised the following points:

    1. UP and Bihar are going to the dogs, hence people are migrating to Mumbai.
    2. Mumbai cannot handle the influx of migrants
    3. Raj Thackerey has won THIRTEEN assembly seats so he must be doing SOMETHING right.

    Conclusions:

    1.Raj Thackerey is right in instigating violence against non-marathis
    2. UP and Bihar are a blot on the country
    3. Lets send everyone right where they were born

    THIS IS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF BULLSHIT THAT COULD HAVE BEEN CONCLUDED.

    Reading these points has diminished my opinion about you guys..particularly Kishor who I know to be a regular on GB’s blog.

    Here are my rebuttals:

    Please try and wrap your heads around the fact that Mumbai, UP, Bihar are all a part of the SAME COUNTRY. Let me repeat that

    SAME
    COUNTRY

    Do you realize what that means? That means that all citizens of India are free to migrate where ever they want, stay where ever they want, work and live where ever they want without need of any special documents or without fear of persecution.

    Please read that again. Slowly.

    Anybody who advocates regionalist bullshit like Mumbai is for marathis needs to haul his medieval ass back to the dark ages. In an era of globalization where boundaries between countries are blurring…in the age of the common European visa…Raj thackerey and his supporters are talking about drawing new boundaries WITHIN India. AND he is being supported by ppl! UNBELIEVABLE.

    If somebody here has read the history of Delhi, he/she shall know how Delhi has readily assimilated everyone who has come there. Delhi is as much of a nerve center of the country as Mumbai, if not more..and with much better infrastructure I might add…here there are punjabis, biharis, ppl from UP, bengal and I dare say marathi ‘manhoos’ and yet nobody here tries to fight an election on the plank of ridding delhi of ppl who have come from other states.

    It is only in a place like Mumbai that has worshipped the individual over the ideology since time immemorial (Shivaji, Balasaheb..) where such jingoistic rhetoric sways the people to put their swords where there mouth is.

    1.To people who say that since bihar and UP are corrupt and their ppl are migrating to bombay, hence they shud not be allowed…do u really think that is the best solution to the problem? To make poor migrant labourers suffer for the greed of politicians? I agree corruption is rife in Up, Bihar, jharkhand…bt if mumbaikars are so keen to cleanse dese states of corruption…y dun dey reverse migrate to dese states and cleanse them??

    Banning ppl from UP and Bihar fom wrkin in Mumbai in order to stop corruption in UP is like taking radiation therapy for AIDS.

    3. Raj thackerey has won 13 seats so he MUST be doing smthn right. This statement reeks of naivete. I would like to throw a few words at u: ‘booth capturing’, ‘scientific polling techniques’ , ‘goonda raj’ (pun unintended)

    A guy hu has an army of readymade gundas to kill, maim and torture unsuspecting, innocent ppl in full view of d public ..on d streets…u think its much of a stretch for him to scare and bludgeon ppl in an area where they have to eke out a living to make them vote fr him? PLEASE. Get a life. And read White Tiger and QnA -even foreign authors noe wat elections mean in India.

    There are always two ways to tackle a problem – the wrong and easy way and the right and hard way.

    Raj thackerey’s agenda on trying to capture marathi vote bank by stirring regionalistic feelings shud be seen for what it is: propaganda to win elections and then use public money to support an even bigger army of goondas to win even more elections. A bluddy cartoonist hu has nt done evn a single day’s cnstructive work professionally to contribute positively to the economy is suddenly the champion of the poor, and downtrodden. Only in a city like Mumbai can this shit be pulled off.

    thus, I implore u ppl ‘mumbaikars’ to plz get off ur high horse…and try to get beyond rhetoric…and ask urslf…wud u like to go smplace in ur own cntry and be driven out jst because u r nt frm dere?

    North india dsnt target marathis den y do u? All said and done..Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Calcutta all are a part of INDIA. There is no shortage of cntries and peoples who want to see india disintegrate, who want to see it implode…by fanning fires of regionalism…Raj and Balasaheb are playing rite into their hands for a few petty pieces of silver…shame!

    I used to think..Maharashtra is the only sane place in India..apart frm d Central-north india…south indians want Telangana…punjab wants Khalistan…east wants gorkhaland….and Kashmir toh considers itself smthn else entirely….bt nw…I have had to revise my opinion…and its a damn shame.

  45. While I agree that pandering to parochial instincts is a very slippery slope and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms, however Smarty boy ji do consider:

    “Please try and wrap your heads around the fact that Mumbai, UP, Bihar are all a part of the SAME COUNTRY”

    Yes yes dude we get it – but the discussion here is delving a bit deeper. ‘Same country’ argument begins to get a bit worn when you find that some regions are pulling more of their share of the weight than others. So can mumbaikars ask these folks – hey same country you know? – same corrupt politicians every where, same dependence on the Centre for funds – so how come things are more effective here than in your place? [You might also wish to ask why non-residents are not allowed to buy property in Kashmir or in the North East despite being in the same country]

    “I agree corruption is rife in Up, Bihar, jharkhand…bt if mumbaikars are so keen to cleanse dese states of corruption…y dun dey reverse migrate to dese states and cleanse them??”

    I think this has to be the WTF comment of the day !! So you mean biharis and jharkandis would want to free-ride on the ‘effectiveness’ (such as it is) of the Maharashtra administration, but expect mumbaikars to clean up the mess in their states? Strange that you accuse mumbaikars of voting on the basis of ‘language’ , however, you do not seem to question Bihar and UP residents who keep voting on the basis of caste / religious considerations rather than effective administration?

    Second, Politicians are corrupt every where, in the end service delivery falls on the state bureaucracy and the inherent standards that people set for themselves. In this regard, take it from me – as someone who was born in calcutta, went to school in Bihar, to college in Delhi and has worked in Mumbai, mumbai has one of the best work ethics in the country.

    ”A guy hu has an army of readymade gundas to kill, maim and torture unsuspecting, innocent ppl in full view of d public ..on d streets…u think its much of a stretch for him to scare and bludgeon ppl in an area where they have to eke out a living to make them vote fr him? PLEASE. Get a life. And read White Tiger and QnA -even foreign authors noe wat elections mean in India.”

    If that is the case – why did he win ONLY 13 seats and not the election? Incidentally, White Tiger and Q&A were written by Indians. Would you care to substantiate your claim that Raj won his seats because of intimidation? Please understand that such politicians capitalise on groundswell fustrations (just like Hitler I’m afraid.) So please to address root cause – remove the need for uncontrolled migration into Mumbai.

    “There are always two ways to tackle a problem – the wrong and easy way and the right and hard way.”

    This is getting sanctimonious (apart from being a quote from DDLJ – Raj’s mom said the same thing) – please tell us the right way? Your ‘right way’ seems to be the maintenance of status quo with no onus on Bihar / UP to improve. How long do you think this would go on? UP and Bihar already send the largest share of politicians to the Centre because of their population rather than their contribution to India as a whole. So the dice is always loaded against any real change happenning in these states because of political expediency. So in our case democracy is rapidly becoming the tyranny of the ‘majority’? Isn’t it likely that such situations are ripe for Raj Thakery types to exploit?

    ”I used to think..Maharashtra is the only sane place in India..apart frm d Central-north india…”

    You thought a state which alternates between Mayawati and Mulayam to be a sane place? Or one which allows Laloo to be a CM for 20 years to be a sane place?

  46. Hi arnie,

    so how come things are more effective here than in your place?

    Ha, so you think people migrate to Mumbai because everything is more effective there, and that’s some credit to Marathis?? So what about underworld, slums, poor drainage kinda things like that? Not symbols of a place where everything’s better are they?

    Sorry yaar, I think you’re wrong. Due to some historical coincidences Mumbai is a BIG city. And there are more scope for jobs in a big city. If you’ve ever been to rural regiions of this country, you’ll know how sad things are there.. NO need to go out of Maharashtra, go to Vidarbha, that’s all.. So, what about Vidharbha… Something’s rotten there, as far as we know. So your effective governence in Maharashtra is going to dogs there, like in UP or Bihar, hey na?? So can these farmers from Maharashtra migrate to Mumbai.. Can Mumbai accomodate them? Why does Maharashtra ask for central aid??

    Swallow your arguments of Mumbai being more effectively governed than UP and Bihar. People do migrate to big cities where jobs are available, & that’s how these cities grow. What’s more, they create cheap labour in the market. It is not required of Marathi politicians to beat up poor Bihari immigrants to prove their point to UP and BIhar politicians. There is a parliament in India, and Shiv Sena have got their reps there,, why don’t they discuss and debate this with some civility there rather than resorting to hooliganism on people who have come to earn their daily bread???

  47. @ Anu
    I’m afraid so. why are more jobs available in Mumbai? why doesn’t the private sector invest in UP /Bihar? After all UP / Bihar have bigger populations – yet the only industry in Bihar seems to be when a politician chooses to make a rail coach factory or an ordnance factory?
    Slums are a function of migration. Please provide opportunities in Patna / Kanpur / Lucknow. By ‘effectiveness’ I mean – efficiency of public service such as provision of electricity, public transport (have you seen how well the trains run in mumbai despite the pressures put on them? There was a recent documentary made on mumbai local trains), health. They are all better in Maharashtra but are increasingly under strain because of migration.

    Maharashtra asks for Central aid just like every other State because tax collection in India is highly centralised. Maharashtra collects revenues for about 20 % of of its expenditures and contributes about 60% of the Centre’s income and corporate tax (this is of course a function of more companies being in Maharashtra, but then it begs the question – why are they in Maharashtra? because work gets done there?). Bihar’s expenditure on wages and salaries and interest payments exceed 100 % of the revenues collected by it (check out RBI’s annual report on state government finances). Please tell me which is a bigger burden to the whole of India? Yet Bihar sends more politicians to the Centre than Maharashtra. why?

  48. Awaiting your comment on comment by non sequitur —
    observation 3. safest strategy is to leave the country and write a blog from the other side of the globe and leave everybody else to fight over it in the comments section….

  49. I wish Raj and his parochial fans here would also talk a bit about what they plan to do for their precious Marathi Manoos outside of Mumbai. After all, last I checked, Marathi Manoos live in the whole of Maharashtra – even in the drought ridden, suicide afflicted parts where Raj has never set foot.

    Without a holistic vision for the entire community, and by concentrating on urban areas, his claims to be a spokesperson for the entire community seems a bit hollow…

  50. Well if the Marathi Manoos outside Mumbai do not get justice – I’m sure they will become naxalites (like in Bihar / Jharkhand / UP ). The issue here is not what RajT plans to do for ‘marathi manoos’ in Maharashtra. I believe the ‘supporters’ of RajT on this forum are trying to make a more nuanced argument. They are trying to explain why the hell RajT is getting an audience (and votes). This unfortunately gets drowned in accusations of ‘democratic rights, citizens rights, UP, Bihar’s rights’ etc. Nobody is trying to impinge on UP / Bihar’s RIGHTS. However, can the rest of the country (including Maharashtra) ask about UP /Bihar’s RESPONSIBILITIES?

  51. I see a major riot coming against the Hindi speakers in Mumbai, we need it from time to time to release pent up frustration. Its almost a trend one can see over all the major riots. It starts with demonising a particular community over and over again unless a critical mass of majority is convinced that particular community is the reason for “all the troubles”, after that it just needs a trigger. Assam 1983, Delhi 1984, India 1992, Gujrat 2002, Kashmir 1989 and many minor ones e.g. against Tamilians in Bangalore 2005. Sad state of affairs, but people need solutions for the daily grind and if no solution is forthcoming someone to blame.

  52. With all this people really (!!) supporting (!!) Raj and “marathi manus” I feel sorry for the “Amra bangali” protagonist who probably came before his time. Anyone remember the “Amra bangali” posters in Kolkata (it was Calcutta at that time)?

  53. Assuming Maharashtra was to secede from India -:

    1. 4-5 Million migrants move out of Mumbai, so much more space. YAY!!!
    2. No more Bollywood, people watch Tamasha and local culture gets “respect”.
    3. We get to name BSE as Chattrapati Shivaji Stock exchange.
    4. No more Gateway of India, Chttrapati Shivaji Gate, more pride to us.
    5. Indian Navy vacates Navy Nagar prime real estate for manus. 🙂

    I don’t see what do we get by staying with in union of India, as our friend Pradeep says you stay there we stay here.

  54. I don’t see the point Pradeep/ Kishore/ Vinayaka/ RajT/ Marathi Manoos/ Tom/ Dick/ harry/ Whatever are trying to put. What I know is that Delhi is not like Bombay [I have used again- Bombay, shoot me for it].

    I also do not understand the point behind you enjoy your shit, and i enjoy mine, after being explained twice or thrice that India is a single country. The tax you guys pay goes to your state, not an arbitrary quota, so stop whining about this crap!

    Now, Mumbai is so “infested” with Bihari’s and UPites, my point is- Do you know in UPSC, who are the people who are in majority? Apart from Indians, they are Biharis. In IIT- JEE? needless to say UP+ Bihar rules the charts. Have some galls to shout these exams are rigged?

    If you want to do something, come and compete, otherwise don’t whine. God, I sound like a teacher slapping a stupid whinging kid!!

    What is it with you guys? Tomorrow, would you ask that Bapu be known as a Gujarati, and Nehru be called as Kashmiri?

    Can any one explain on clear terms where is the problem brewing? Which city of India [except perhaps Chandigarh] has PERFECT sewage system, traffic system, job opportunity, city planning, regional harmony, and everything else rolled into one? None! [they are improving though] but no! you have to cry foul about marathi manoos being tortured to death by these biharis and upites, forgetting what they add to your place. Otherwise the slum of mumbai wouldn’t have been bigger than an acre, is it?

    RajT is a foreign educated guy, someone wrote above. My question: Phoren se padh ke bhi itna hi standard of thinking hai iska? Had his Marathi Manoos Parents used a condom, to ye paida na hota, and We’d have been spared of this otherwise baseless debate that why Marathis are like other Indians, and why we all should be first an Indian, and later human beings.

  55. @MumbaimeriJaan: Jaya Bachchan nee Bhaduri is a bengali but I don’t see bengalis care that she spoke in Hindi and emphasized her UP roots over her Bong ones 🙂

    @HP: Sorry to state the obvious but Lalu, Modi and Raj T belong to 3 differnt political parties with different ideologies and have never even been part of the same coalition government. So it is not illogical to oppose some and support others in this trio. Most adults develop this minimal level of discernibility.

  56. I find it rather interesting that while Raj is busy beating up poor Railway Service examinees, he does not have the “balls” to touch the hundreds of thousands fo Muslim Bangladeshis sitting and siphoning resources from “Raj’s manoos” in Maharashtra.

    He may want to unload off the legitimate non-citizens first before he whines about fellow citizens from Bharat.

    @ Spark
    There will be no large scale riots in Maharashtra on this issue.
    It doesnt help Raj and the Kangress.

  57. The overall attitude of anti-marathi people is ‘Tamilandu for Tamils, Bengal for Bengalis, Punjab for Punjabis’ but ‘Maharashtra for everyone.’
    This is crap. I challenge all you pro-Hindi anti-marathi bloggers..go and make karunanidhi and his people speak Hindi..your so called national language. Go and survive in Tamilnadu by speaking only hindi and no tamil or english. and then u will have a right to preach to marathi manoos.

  58. The overall attitude of anti-marathi people is ‘Tamilandu for Tamils, Bengal for Bengalis, Punjab for Punjabis’ but ‘Maharashtra for everyone.’
    This is crap. I challenge all you pro-Hindi anti-marathi bloggers..go and make karunanidhi and his people speak Hindi..your so called national language. Go and survive in Tamilnadu by speaking only hindi and no tamil or english. and then u will have a right to preach to marathi manoos.

  59. @chatterjee,

    I am sorry to say that I have to state the obvious too.

    This was obviously meant for those folks who are opposing Raj T for his narrow minded chauvinistic(violent too) behavior but jump for Modi/Lalu’s defence in similar scenarios.

  60. @HP,

    Are you out of your mind? When has Narendra bhai advocated violence? Against whom? If you would like to make rambling noises, please do so… but try not to get other people’s blogs sued for libel.

  61. @ V:
    Do you know what are you speaking? it’s laudable! Again I’m saying this- by giving example as a foundation for a conclusion, which is devoid of any logic!!

    What is it that you have achieved if you were born in Maharashtra? There is nothing that you have achieved. But the attitude of yours is detrimental to nationalism, and I’m not sorry to point that despite being taught history, you didn’t learn anything from it. Still, India is divided into states, like British era.

    This is disappointing.

    Mind you, no one is forcing Hindi on you. But on the contrary, some of the people like RajT, are forcing one language on all, which is wrong, and unconstitutional. This is also too narrow minded. Now, does this remind you of Nazism?

    If Bombay is a metropolitan, then it is bound to have multicultural backdrop. What is so bad in it, may I ask, which is not present in Other Metropolitans across India?

    Before pointing fingers to Tamil population, have you tried to understand what they say? Where did you read Punjabi people want ONLY Punjabi as the language? I have never heard Bengalis saying the same, in fact, Bengalis despite not understanding Hindi, have always tried to help my friends.

    So far, RajT is the only sample who has been crying hoarse, and that too without any logic, with actions amounting to criminal offense. Now how does that assuage the situations in Bihar & UP? Don’t you see, he is already sipping the tea in his house, doing nothing for the farmers of Vidarbha, when you are mouthing his ideas, and are bewildered!

    So I’d say he’s not a fool, in fact, he has earned those 13 seats because of you people!!

  62. @Bengal Voice,

    Really, what part of my statement would make be culpable for libel? I would love to know.

    Similar scenarios would entail narrow mindedness or chauvinistic behavior or violence or inciting violence or not stopping violence when one was in a position to stop it. I guess Modi would definitely fall in some or the other category.

    Thanks for the advice. will take care in future.

  63. To all the Marathi detractors,
    Nice to see some extreme views from both the sides, and a couple of references to my previous post – I enjoy my state, you enjoy yours. Now some serious stuff:

    Dear Nimesh, it’s an enlightenment indeed to know that majority of IITians are from Bihar/UP. Good guys, keep it up. The question is – how may?? As per my limited knowledge, all the IITs can not accommodate more than 10,000 students a year. The number of unskilled/semi-skilled migrants coming from UP/Bihar to Maharashtra per day is about 5,000. I am so happy that all the IITians, who are mostly from UP/Bihar, have uplifted slightly developed states like Maharashtra out of backwardness after independence and are doing the same with other better off states like Gujarat, Karnataka, T’Nadu and Andhra as well. Gosh, guys, without you, these states would never have been as developed as UP/Bihar, which are competing in another league.

    UPSC – wow, UP/Bihar rock again! Our beauracracy is the least corrupt and most efficient in the world. The Indian parliament, where UP/Bihar have the highest representation (courtesy – marauding population..err..no, lack of condoms, well, yes!) and where the most of the PMs (The Family!!) have been from UP and Rail Mantris (The Chaluprasads) from Bihar, is so impartial. Thanks for enlightening that all the good things that have happened in India are because of you. I heard even the Chandrayaan was sent into the orbit by the UP/Biharis by having Southie names in disguise. It matters the least that the short term and long term incentives (dowry/bribe) for becoming an IAS/IPS are extremely trivial in these states. It also matters the least that the number of engineering colleges in both these super-states are less than the no. of fingers any lesser mortal from the South may have. And of course, the only JEE leakage published till now has happened in the land of enlightenment, the mastermind also shared the same last name as Bhalooprasad!!

    It’s an interesting puzzle indeed – why the first class citizens of India from the two enlightened states, who could crack JEEs while asleep and UPSC while half asleep, who have been blessed with an (un)fair advantage of writing competitive examinations in their mother tongue (again, due to sheer brute numbers – lack of contraceptives??), want to travel South (I heard ticketless travel is a birthright there) and appear for Railway examinations? Guys, are you destined for such trivial jobs with your IIT/UPSC level intelligence? Shame!

    What a pleasure it has been to compete with the UP/Biharis after being forced to learn their language, after finding out that the most impartial Railway Recruitment Board officer of Mumbai forgot to publish the job advert in Marathi dailies, but our enlightened and first class (well, you have the language of your side don’t you?) countrymen read the job adverts in the most liveable cities of all – Patna. Even God has not been impartial, so why blame these super humans? While giving sky high IQs to the folks in Laluland, he forgot to give even half of that to us poor souls.

    The low IQ Manoos, who had to learn a language he did not want to learn just to compete with the enlightened ones, even when he was applying for a ticket checker’s post in a distant village where even the ghosts communicated in Marathi, just could not get the job. What to do, the only Marathi supervisor in the examination centre was sent on leave, the question paper was set by a certain Pandey, checked by a Gupta, cross-checked by a Mishra, evaluated by a Yadav and results declared by a Sharma. With a bit of luck, the Manoos cleared the exam just on borderline, and then stood in a serpentine line for the job interview. The Mishra said Manoos could not speak the enlightening language as good as a Pandey. The Gupta said Manoos did not have enough IQ to give a train ticket to Lucknow for a Kumar going to Lucknow. The Pandey was very straightforward to say on face – “Idiot, don’t you know that the Railway dept is for exclusive recruitment of the enlightened ones? Now get the hell out of here!!”

    Ironic, the Mumbai University students can’t even compete with those from University of Patna (must be ranked pretty high I guess) for a post of a Ticket distributor, a job even a brain-dead could do. Nor are we competent enough to get a job in the SBI branch – Hatkanangale (Dist. Kolhapur), which apparently has 99.999% Marathi speaking customers, but conveniently doesn’t feel the need of its IIT/UPSC level intelligent employees to know the customers’ language. Who cares, the second class citizens (what to do, we had contraceptives in this land, so couldn’t increase our population to compete with UP/Bihar) will be forced to learn the unknown language and speak to the half dozen enlightened employees. It’s even more confusing to find that the enlightened ones posted there did not like the ‘native’ language as well the name of the village in native language. All of a sudden, the board of the train station read – HaathKaLangada, courtesy – don’t you know it by now? The elder un-educated villager Manoos said – it happens the same all the times, they come from ‘outside’, they hate your language, they change your language, you start doubting yourselves and then you become the parochial, enlightened people hating ‘localite’. There is a solution though, he said.

    Depressed and dejected with low IQ and in-built laziness, the Manoos takes a return train ticket to Mumbai CST from the enlightened railway employee. Just to check that his mental health is alright, the Manoos goes to get his brain checked by Dr. Juvale in St. George’s Hospital, a stone’s throw from CST. Surprise, surprise, there is a long queue in front of the hospital and they all arrived just ten minutes back by Gorakhpur Express to meet their folks already admitted in the hospital. This time, there are some more new patients from the land of enlightenment. Errr, the hospital is run by the state government, by getting taxes from the citizens of the state – not the enlightened ones. When enquired, the Manoos is told, in a tone of the enlightened masters, that the IIT/UPSC babies are no more interested in building hospitals in that land but would rather build ultra modern machinery to gulp fodder worth 900 crores within a day, without leaving a trace. The latest trend, the Manoos is told, is to build huge statues of a certain lady showing fingure to one and all.

    Just thinking of yet another struggle the next day, the Manoos suddenly remembers his cousin – Bhau (Brother in English, Anna in Tamil, Chetta in Malyali), living near Nashik. Bhau lived near Sinnar, one of the biggest industrial clusters of Maharashtra, with the manufacturing industrial base bigger than the combined capacity of all the enlightening language speaking states of India. Bhau was told by MIDC – the state government’s land acquisition agency to sell his land in return of a paltry sum in 1988, but with a promise of a decent paying job. Apparently, the biggest tractor manufacturing company of India set its assembly plant there, even though the steel came from Jharkhand and its customers were mainly in Punjab. Ironic, Bhau thought, why would a non-Marathi owned company, serving non-Marathi customers in non-Marathi states, with raw materials coming from outside, wanted to set up a plant in a semi-arid place, 100 kms from a distant, sleepy town? Bhau has always been intelligent and practical though.

    Bhau was aware that his land was not only an asset, but also a guaranteed future cash flow. Why not swap this asset for a paltry sum, swap the guaranteed future cash flow with a decent monthly salary and assured provident fund, and upgrade one level up from a marginal farmer to lower middle class blue collar worker he thought. By mid 90s, Bhau was a satisfied man. The village had become a small town, competing with upcoming industrial towns near Pune, Nashik, Aurangabad and Nagpur, where the manufacturing skyrocketed during last decade. Skoda, Mercedes, Fiat, L&T… You name a company, and you would find its manufacturing plant near one of these towns. The story was the same everywhere. Landowner farmers were ready to upgrade their lives by swapping their land in promise of decent jobs. The system was fair, it worked. The Marathi administration made it to work. The companies knew that this was the state to get the job done. From distant villages in coastal Ratnagiri to Thane and from distant ButiBori in Nagpur to arid Aurangabad in Marathwada, the industries were buzzing. Quality of life had improved and the former marginal farmers had indeed upgraded a level up. The Gujratis/Marwaris preferred setting up industries in this state, with majority of the employees who were ‘natives’.

    Fast forward 2001, the number of enlightened Indians from the two super-league states started coming in droves to Nashik, which by this time had five industrial estates (http://www.midcindia.org/MIDCWebSite/investment/industrial/ListIndustrialArea.aspx?id=21). Bhau says, there is a strange disease going on in Sinnar now. The auxiliary units want contract labour instead of employing the full time employees. Even the salaries of the contracted labour are sub Rs 3000, without contributing a penny to the state’s tax kitty. Who could afford to work in such jobs? Obviously, only those who can live in slums without paying a single naya paisa in tax to local council and for other amenities like power, water, transportation etc. What about healthcare – offcourse, go to the municipal hospital, which depends on ‘local’ taxes, which are paid mostly by the natives. In short, there is an invasion by a category of free-riders, Bhau says. They just don’t contribute anything, while reaping the benefits for which Bhau and his Manoos did the groundwork. It is not fair, but there is a solution, Bhau said.

    This is getting on the nerves of the Manoos, who next morning heads to J.N. Petit library in Fort, just next to Hutatma Chowk (Martyrs’ Square for the non-Manoos and Flora Fountain for the Gora Saahib ki nishaani). The library has archives of all the newspapers and independent magazines, both right and left leaning, of the crucial period in Maharashtra – 1950s to 1970s. Eureka Eureka!! The Marathi generation now in its 70s knows similar things having happened in Mumbai in the 1960s, leading to the birth of the Tiger Thakre. The utter narrow minded and ultra low IQ Marathi speaking elder tells me that despite being a pass-out from one of the better colleges of Commerce in Mumbai, he just wouldn’t get a job in any of the banks in Mumbai. Just like in the Railways these days, the banks in those years were controlled by The Subramaniam people – his acronym for Tam Brahms. ‘Lungi Bhagao’ was need of the hour, he said. Periyar’s movement against Tam Brahms and the resulting nepotism – T Brahms employing only T Brahms outside T’Nadu wasn’t fair, he said. For all the talk of being a single country and single culture, where is the sense of fairness, he asked. Why should any minister push men from his own state in any central government’s department, he asked. Why should the enlightening language be given higher status and forced down everyone’s throat, when that language is not even spoken by 99% of the ‘native’ population, he asked. Who decides these rules, the progressive people who chose the path of Bhau, or those who had not other work but to increase population in the enlightened states – speaking the language of enlightenment, sending more MPs and making a mockery of competitiveness and inclusiveness, he asked. Bal Thakre was then what Raj Thakre is now, hated by non Marathis but supported to the core by the most vocal constituency – educated, un-employed and in most of the times the deserving candidates. That was then and this is now, but there is a solution, he said.

    As the events unfold, the solution is becoming apparent. Although violent sometimes, there doesn’t seem to be another option of this predicament. When all the legal and non-violent options become bleak, there would always be social volcanoes in the form of Bal Thakre or Raj Thakre.

    Whether you like it or now, we do not care. The pervasive sense of accommodating others is gone, the opportunities are shrunk and level-playing field is gone for a toss. No free-riding by the enlightened ones anymore. If the ‘others’ are making noise just because of sheer numbers, the Manoos won’t go quiet. They did not go quiet in the 1960s, and there is no reason why they would be quiet now. 60% votes for the MNS-SS-BJP combine have aptly shown, what the Manoos wants in Maharashtra. It was the Manoos who fought the war of 1857 (check wiki please), it was the cotton mill worker Manoos who fought the British in 1940s, and the Nehrus and Morarjis during 1950s in Mumbai. If any city or state belonged to the moneybags, America would be owned by the Jews by now. The natives would always be natives and the free-riders have no business to tell the natives that the benefits belong to the country, whereas responsibilities belong to the natives. We give galls to what you think! It doesn’t matter. Go, give that crap to your enlightened leaders- Chaluprasads and Statue of Mayawati!

    The biggest impact of Raj’s movement has been in Nashik, the new industrial heart of Maharashtra. Kiran Rao Batni of Karnataka has been on the forefront of similar movement in Karnataka – http://karnatique.blogspot.com/2009/10/are-natives-any-less-indian.html . Assam already realized that a long time back and other states on the ladder to industrialization will follow the example soon. Charity should start at home. None of the Raj haters has galls to utter their frustrations against their leaders. None of you can even dream of asking your leaders why they are doing what they are doing. They know the consequences. If you can’t change things in your state, then fight for it. It will take years, maybe generations, but just do it. Marathi Manoos has followed that path, a generation has gone in doing the groundwork between 1960s to 1980s (read the history of MIDC). All that was conceived by the Marathi Manoos, the natives. Just in case you want to know the contribution of the free-riders from the two enlightened states, it was zilch.

  64. oh man, you are awesome. I look forward for your posts like a junkie, as there are very few things which gives a good dose of humor. Even though I am lazy to leave a comment for every post, please keep up the good work and do not ever stop what you are doing pleeeaassee…. you know 😉
    IMO you are doing a great service to humanity…

  65. I am a highly skilled laborer working in a foreign bank. I dont know Marathi, however my wife does as she has much superior language skills ( Couldnt pick much Bengali even after 7 yrs there ). And I am from Bihar.
    Now all people who are so upset over my being in Mumbai ( a city i like very much and will always have good memories of ) can you please guide me on what should I do? Since you hate me so much you have two options
    1) Please pass a legislation in your assembly making a visa compulsory for anyone coming to Mumbai. Reject my application and watch (gleefully) me running away with my tail between my legs.
    2)Or watch while goons of Raj Thackery beat me up for some reason and going back half dead.

    In any case be clear and have the courage of admitting what you are. Do not hide under the cover of “while we do not support violence, we think he has a point and we will pretend that violence did not happen when we vote for him.” There are no half ways in this. You cannot be cowardly in ignoring the violence, either says its wrong and I dont support Raj’s agenda in any form whatsoever OR join in the violence and have fun while it lasts. But please have the courage to come out clear on this.

  66. Prasad,

    Thanks Man, didn’t knew Maharashtra was so developed. Though last I went to Pune 3 years ago had to endure 7 hour power cuts maybe that was a one off case. Anyhow a Pune based company last year lost a contract with us because our VP watched news while the “Tiger” was holding a bandh for some “valid” reason, poor fellow developed cold feet at the thought of travelling to maratha land. Though I told him that the “Tiger” loves Americans and once Micheal Jackson took a leak in his toilet, which he later proudly showed to journalists. You have a nice reputation building up for you there 🙂

  67. This is a very healthy discussion in most parts. So far, no name calling either.
    However, Most of the arguments Vinayak, Kishore,PG and Arnie make in support to Raj or his brand of politics – shoots itself in the foot for the below reasons:

    Generic idea of the arguments made by above:
    “Raj is not against people from North, He is only against unskilled people who live in slums, drive taxies etc and in short take up the limited resources available in Mumbai which according to them should only belong to a Maharashtrian.”

    So, I wonder:
    a)As far as I know, people who appear for government jobs (Not just in Mumbai but in other cities of Maharashtra as well) are not ‘unskilled’, per say, as government sets some basic qualifications to appear for these exams. Nor would I suspect most of them to be living in a slum illegally. So, if Raj is not against ‘qualified’ people taking jobs on basis of merit, what is ailing him here?

    b)How is it justified to go and wreck havoc in the offices of educational institutes because they admit non-marathi students? Who by the way are not illegal residents and apparently not ‘unskilled’. They either get admission on basis of merit or take a donation seat (Which are by the way, occupied equally by Maharastrian students as well).

    c)How is it that most of the supporters (or pseudo non-supporters favoring his brand of politics) just quote Mumbai? What about other regions of Maharashtra which have far more serious issues (IMO) like Vidarbha? How would RajT’s brand of politics will help to prevent suicides of the farmers? As per the self proclaimed savior/leader of Marathi Manoos, shouldn’t he focus on such issues?

    d)Is the issue really Maharashtra against UP/Bihar and any other states? The issue here is a party deciding who can and who cannot work in an integral part of India.

    Now the disclaimer which I think is necessary in context of the discussion:
    I do not belong to either UP or Bihar or any other north Indian state for that matter. I belong to Gujarat and has lived in a city where there are plenty of Maharastrians living peacefully along with the ‘Gujju Manoos’ and never felt that I needed a savior to protect myself from the ‘outsiders’. Peace.

  68. This is a very healthy discussion in most parts. So far, no name calling either. However, Most of the arguments Vinayak, Kishore,PG and Arnie make in support to Raj or his brand of politics – shoots itself in the foot for the below reasons:

    Generic idea of the arguments made by above:
    “Raj is not against people from North, He is only against unskilled people who live in slums, drive taxies etc and in short take up the limited resources available in Mumbai which according to them should only belong to a Maharashtrian.”

    So, I wonder:

    a)As far as I know, people who appear for government jobs (Not just in Mumbai but in other cities of Maharashtra as well) are not ‘unskilled’, per say, as government sets some basic qualifications to appear for these exams. Nor would I suspect most of them to be living in a slum illegally. So, if Raj is not against ‘qualified’ people taking jobs on basis of merit, what is ailing him here?
    b)How is it justified to go and wreck havoc in the offices of educational institutes because they admit non-marathi students? Who by the way are not illegal residents and apparently not ‘unskilled’. They either get admission on basis of merit or take a donation seat (Which are by the way, occupied equally by Maharastrian students as well).
    c)How is it that most of the supporters (or pseudo non-supporters favoring his brand of politics) just quote Mumbai? What about other regions of Maharashtra which have far more serious issues (IMO) like Vidarbha? How would RajT’s brand of politics will help to prevent suicides of the farmers? As per the self proclaimed savior/leader of Marathi Manoos, shouldn’t he focus on such issues?
    d)Is the issue really Maharashtra against UP/Bihar and any other states? The issue here is a party deciding who can and who cannot work in an integral part of India.

    Now the disclaimer which I think is necessary in context of the discussion:
    I do not belong to either UP or Bihar or any other north Indian state for that matter. I belong to Gujarat and has lived in a city where there are plenty of Maharastrians living peacefully along with the ‘Gujju Manoos’ and never felt that I needed a savior to protect myself from the ‘outsiders’. Peace.

  69. On a serious note, the biggest problem with Hindi speaking states is that the moment someone gets any sort of mandate in these states they automatically start having “ambitions” at the center. Look at Mayawati, she got a full majority in a complicated and diverse state like UP but instead of doing anything in state, she wants to be the PM, same with Rajnath Singh, V. P. Singh or any other politician from the cow belt. This coupled with a high Muslim population (which votes for anyone opposing BJP) results in a complex vote bank politics where there is little incentive to deliver. Nitish Kumar looks to be the exception now, but we will see how it goes.

    Also Hindi speakers have bought into this “Hindi is a national language” crap for long and expect people from other states to speak it. Which is absurd.

    Worldwide Hindi speakers have a better record of integration with local population (from Trinidad to Holland) than some other Indian communities e.g Tamils in Sri Lanks and Malaysia or Sikhs in Canada, Just that there was no Amar Singh or Mulayam to fuck them up and they were not fed this Hindi shit.

  70. Spark, you the enlightened soul, this is slightly off the topic. Use your IIT/UPSC cracking IQ to search wiki (c’mon, you can do it easily). Read the names Tatya Tope, Nana Sahib (Peshwa) and Lakshmibai Tambey-Newalkar (Jhansi). My average intelligence suggests me that these central characters of 1857 war were not from UP/Bihar!

  71. @Spark,Pradeep and Contra:

    Guys cool it. Freedom fighters have nothing to do with this debate so let their souls rest in peace.

    @Rakesh and others.

    The bigger moot point over here, an I think everyone will agree to it, is that the development scenario in India is highly skewed. I had pointed towards this unequal pattern in India’s development in the comment space of “Phantom Menace” post by GB. I think everyone will agree that if you X-Y coordinate plane running through the centre of India you will clearly see that the North-East quadrant is the least developed of the 4. This is the problem area in India. This quadrant would include Bihar,Jharkhand, Eastern UP, Bengal and parts of Orissa. And its not that this region is at any sort of disadvantage. This is mineral rich region. So ideally it should have been favourite for Industries to have setup shops there. Its a fertile region with so many rivers. So the agriculture should have flourished and there should not have been any hungry people out there. Also, it is one of the most densely populated regions in India. So Human Resource should not have been a problem.
    So in spite of all this, why didn’t it grow into a Maharashtra or Gujarat or Karnataka? Something must’ve gone horribly wrong somewhere.
    You can’t even argue that this region is at a political disadvantage because this is region has highest number of representatives to the Lok Sabha. So many Cabinet Ministers have come up from there. They could’ve wielded their power and political might to get things done over there.
    But obviously they did not. Neither the state government or the central leadership had any sort of intention to do it. Why So? I will let you decide it for yourself. Why wasn’t there any people movement demanding development or in other words, why wasn’t there a single political party who championed the cause of development over there? Again, you guys answer that yourself.

    Now coming to opposite quadrant (South West ,extending to gujarat). People over here have always shown an apetite for development and have seen their region develop. They’ve worked hard for it. Now people will show me names like Ambani (Gujarati and not from North East quadrant),Tata(Parsi and agin from Gujarat and not from North East quadrant) who are based out of Mumbai but are not Marathi. My answer to them is. Why was Mumbai zeroed upon by them?
    When Ratan Tata went to Bengal you all know what happened. Tatanagar came into existence due to Tatas but after that initial investment, the region did not took off like Maharashtra or Gujarat.
    So in a nutshell, even if someone tries to bring development, he is confronted over there. So they have no other option but to venture out.

    Cut to 1960 state reorganization act. The states were redrawn on linguistic lines. This was made to ensure that the local culture and language can be nourished and developed. And since India had so many languages, people of a particular region feel at ease going about their official business in their own language.

    Now take Maharashtra’s case. This state rocketed itself to top of Industrialization index in formative years of Indian Union. So no doubt. There was going be migration. Till a certain point it could accomodate the influx. No one questions the meritorious people who have taken jobs here. Far from it.But what about the thousands of people coming here without any job, just to see if they can make Rs 20 and can barely survive in Mumbai? In any case they did not have any chance of survival, or a better life in their homeland.
    However if they assimilate and contribute constructively to the the state, then one can still accomodate. But in stead of uplifting them, leaders like Abu Azmi and his gang arrange for fake ration cards, false taxi permits etc. This is convenient way of satisfying your vote bank isn’t it?

    Now take for example an aspirational local youth who till now has no idea whom he is upping against. For him, the Railway Exam notice doesn’t feature in local dailies (You can answer why). There is no one for him to arrange fake ration card. No “pauwa” in taxi union. He is disappointed to see that everything so out of his reach. He wishes he had an elder brother like Abu Azmi who can comfort him.

    Enter Raj Thackeray. RT says, hey you locals, dont get bogged down by this. If they fight with lathis, I will give you swords (after all its the symbol of Maratha bravery). I will lead a mob against them and beat them up. I will drive them out of Nashik Industrial and put you there instead. And the list goes on.

    Now my question to all the “Champions of Indian Constitution” is do you now understand why was the Raj Thackeray phenomenon born?
    I agree that he is a political opportunist. No questions about it. But was there a very serious issue to be exploited? The answer is resounding YES.
    What I Vinayak, Pradeep are trying to do is to point out towards this issue.
    That does not equate to us supporting Raj Thackeray or his methods.

    And if you people are matured enough, you will understand that no politician has let gone any opportunity to fortify his position. An honest politician is an oxymoron. So how is Raj Thackeray different? Violence perpetrated by his men can be best described as political violence. But is this the first time you have witnessed political violence? What about 105 people who laid down their lives in front of state violence just to ensure that Mumabi remained in Maharashtra?

    So vilifying RT is not the purpose of the debate nor the solution to this problem (And whether RT has a solution remains to be seen, looks unlikely).

    So Rakesh, this is what I call putting things in perspective

  72. PG, really thought provoking comment. But it is a waste of time, nobody would try to understand. Their comment is simple. If your house is soiled, don’t clean it even if u have a well in ur house. Instead go somewhere else and live because constitution gave you the right.

  73. Prasad,

    Maybe a marathi wikipedia says something different. But the real wikipedia has this to say.

    “The Indian Rebellion of 1857 began as a mutiny of sepoys of the British East India Company’s army on 10 May, 1857, in the town of Meerut, and soon erupted into other mutinies and civilian rebellions largely in the upper Gangetic plain and central India, with the major hostilities confined to present-day Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, northern Madhya Pradesh, and the Delhi region.[3”

    Btw, I use my IIT cracking mind to reject Marathi candidates who seek employment in my company because they don’t know the local language. 🙂

  74. @PG,

    “This quadrant would include Bihar,Jharkhand, Eastern UP, Bengal and parts of Orissa. And its not that this region is at any sort of disadvantage. This is mineral rich region.”

    Out of curiosity, have you ever heard of something called “freight equalization” , a policy by which the GOI issued a levy on mineral states to use their own minerals so as to create an even playing field for states like horror of horrors Maharashtra and Kishor—Andhra Pradesh !

    Here is what Wikipedia says:

    The policy resulted in the growth of heavy and middle level industry in the post-independence years outside the mineral-rich regions of the country. The coastal states of Maharashtra and Gujarat were the greatest beneficiaries and so were Delhi and its surrounding districts. Industrialists interested in setting up plants anywhere in the country––Maharashtra, Gujarat, Delhi etc––would get coal, iron ore, aluminium etc at the same price as they used to get in Bihar (now Jharkhand), West Bengal, Chhatisgarh or Orissa. A factory can be set up anywhere in the country and the transportation of minerals would be subsidised by the central government.

    Criticism

    The worst sufferer of this policy was West Bengal, the undivided Bihar (now Jharkhand hewed out from it) and to some extent Orissa and Madhya Pradesh (now Chhatisgarh carved out from it). West Bengal and Bihar’s huge competitive advantage of holding the minerals got destroyed as now factories were set up everywhere else but in these states.

  75. Good piece of info Rohan.

    Now, Pradeepian logic says that since say X people compete IIT from Bihar/ UP, so rest of the state too shares the IQ of these X people. And why not! fact is a fact!! IIT AND UPSC, the two toughest exams are cracked by Biharis and UPites. And again I’d say- it is in very poor grace (like I gave an example of Gandhi being a Gujarati, and Nehru being a Kashmiri) that someone tried to tell who swatantrata senanis were maharashtrians. Those people didn’t fight for maharashtra, they fought for the freedom. Apna sochne ka level uthao, wo IIT crack karne se bahut aasan hai!!

    And I would tell you something about IITians, PRASAD and others- Over past 50 years, IITians have created 2 Crore job opportunities in India only. First crack JEE/ UPSC at least once, and then you can use that sarcastic language for IIT/ UPSC people.

    Now my reply to Pradeep exclusively:
    1. Those labourers are not IIT qualified.
    2. At least they are trying to earn money, however little it is- not committing suicide- and when they are earning, you think it is your part they are taking away. If you were so talented, how did it happen that in your state, someone else from so far comes and takes the job opportunity [the same applies to competitions as well]? Do you people require an invitation on golden plaque after which you’d compete IIT/ UPSC/ secure some job? Perhaps you guys too need a Manoos Quota! REMEMBER: this quota is only for supporters and pseudo- non- supporters of RajT [and his henchmen] only. Rest Marathi guys are, as i have found, hard working normal people!
    3. Because of GOI’s directives, the people come to work in your land.

    4. EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU: now because you admit of being low IQ- I understand your frustration that even if the interview was in Marathi, you were unable to take the job, hence you are scathing.

    Peace.

  76. To all those who are oohh–we–dont–support–raj–but–theres–a–problem zombies. Bihar was the most prosperous state during independence. But what happened after that?…Did you ever peek out to find something in that thing known as history book. Since long we have provided parasites like you almost free resources and minerals for develpoment. Now after taking all that, you are trying to belittle us only. Below I have provided 2 links which might educate you a little bit since you seem nothing more than those dimwits who draw all their knowledge through the grapevines and the idiot box.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freight_equalization_policy

    http://www.patnadaily.com/readerswrite/2005/apr/prabhat_sinha2.html

    You talk about not having good leaders there after independence? Have you even heard about Jaiprakash narayan?

    p.s. I wont provide you a link for JP. Google is your freind, use it yourself

  77. @ Abhi:
    What did you do! These “Raj [naam to suna hi hoga] non supporters” were hating racism, but supporting the beating of those poor Bihari and UPites. Nice way to vent frustrations. (Why don’t they try putting themselves in that situation, and then support it too?)
    Your argument with Rohan’s contravenes the argument Raj the Racist tried to sketch, and despite explaining these guys that They too are most welcome into the competition, they are singing the same tune!

  78. @ Abhi, on a serious note:
    what GoI’s policy was for the development of whole India, working hand in hand, not to create a rift. But there are some negative ideologies who try to find problems and conspiracy everywhere, and don’t exert to find any solution.

    Not all of Marathis are bad. Most of them are cool and very much like other Indians. They don’t mind biharis working in Mumbai, or this city being called as Bombay. Some of the natives are wastrels who don’t find anything to do, and since Indian law is not strict about racism [it’s high time they should be], so they try to hit on that point: Hindu- Muslim, Bihari- Marathi, Punjabi- rest, North frontier- rest, etc, the list is long. As long as responsibility of speech is not taught to them, they won’t understand.

    The need of hour is a law prohibiting any kind of Casteism or regionalism or racism.

    Tatya Tope was great no doubt, so was Shiva ji, but so were Jayprakash Narayan, Dr. Rajendra Prasad, Mangal Pandey, Rani Lakshmi Bai and Mahatma Gandhi.

    For supporters of Raj [ntshh- naam to suna hi hoga] “non supporters”:

    By beating and whining others, you are not showing any respect to other states, the humiliation, in return comes back to your own state. Why are you guys making your state lesser?

    The unskilled laborers living in Bombay have their families in village, in Bihar, so why shouldn’t they send their earnings back home, when they are the sole bread winners? In Maharashtra, please correct me if the things are different from this.

    On the point “why people work there in Mumbai, and their tax money is sent to their native states”:
    It is their personal choice, and also, it is in the same logic which was like- The minerals from Bihar and Jharkhand would go to factories in maharashtra- the same idea of unity and diversity [some of you called this a crap].

    On the point “hindi being a national language is crap”- making a language common to all the states which is understood nationwide is a good idea. Why speak english when hindi does the same thing!
    Why hindi, why not marathi? Because of the 5 most spoken languages on this planet, hindi stood 3rd [2 yrs ago] with about 1 billion speakers world wide. If marathi in near future beats then, no issues, we’ll use that. Another point: Hindi is spoken in an area too wide to be called as a regional language!

    In jugular vein: We Biharis can give you tuition on a few things like: “how not to be frustrated and not to commit suicide when there is a drought” apart from “how to crack IIT JEE/ UPSC/ Railway/ Any competition HONESTLY”, “how to get a job SINCERELY”, and “how to respect others and not beat them in frustration [otherwise someday, they will beat you like hell, lolz]”.
    Of course, we also can lend you a taxi license to work in Bihar and we would not mind if you use full Marathi there!

    Peace.

  79. I notice that now the ‘freight equalisation policy’ is being blamed for all of Bihar’s ills. While I agree that subsidy is wrong but would really like to understand – how was Bihar (WB) shortchanged in the process? Having minerals in these states are a matter of luck. It has nothing to do with the quality of human resources, infrastructure or work ethics. Presumably all that the ‘frieight equalisation’ did was remove the ‘advantage’ of certain states who were fortunate enough to posess minerals. So all the states could do was compete for private industry on the basis of providing an ‘enabling environment’ for industries to flourish. Small surprise that ‘free-rider’ states failed.

    Another free ride argument is. IIT alumni creates 2 crore jobs – many people from Bihar get into IIT – So people from Bihar are creating 2 crore jobs in India 🙂 No wonder the dependence on government sponsored UPSC jobs 🙂

  80. Sorry that should be called the free ride syllogism:

    IIT alumni creates 2 crore jobs in India;
    Many people from Bihar get into IIT;
    So people from Bihar are creating 2 crore jobs in India.

  81. To all those who believe that Mumbai belongs exclusively to Marathi Manoos: –

    Mumbai was made by the Portugese, while the British chose it to be India’s commercial capital. Soon all the industries were set up in Bombay (the Europeans named it so and not the hindi speaking people from the backward states of India) and people came to here from all over India to work and thus contibute to its growth.
    Mumbai had been a commercial centre that represented no represented no region in general.It was more cosmopolitan than union territories like Chandigarh or even Delhi. But it was geographically close to two regions: The gujarati speaking region to its north and the marathi speaking region to its east. Both were a part of the Bombay province as marked by the British and after 1947 became Bombay state. The Marathis and Gujaratis had there eyes on this city and fought each other for it. The Mararthis won it and on 1st May 1960 Bombay state was divided with Bombay city being a part Maharashtra.
    Maharashtra does boast of having cities like Pune and Nashik besides Mumbai. But would Pune or Nashik been a fraction of what they were had Mumbai not been so close to them?
    We look at how much Maharashtra(read Mumbai) has contributed to tax collection of the union and in which states this money has been used. Which is because all the companies have their headquarters in Mumbai.
    But do you realise that had it not been for Mumbai what would have been the Mahrashtra state government’s revenue?
    These funds generated by state government from Mumbai are used to develop other parts of Mahrashtra.
    Mumbai is India’s commercial capital and people from all over India will have to come to the commercial capital to work. If Mumbai is insulated from the rest of India, soon some other city like Delhi, Banglore or Kolkatta will replace Mambai as the commercial capital. Then who will suffer more? The Hindi-speaking labourers (who won’t mind working in any other place) or will it be Mahrashtra?

  82. According to the 2001 census, the highest percentage of migrants to Mumbai reported place of birth within the state of Maharashtra (37.4 per cent) followed by Uttar Pradesh (24.3 %).
    Just because the Samyukta Mahrashtra Samiti won the riots with the Gujaratis, it doesn’t mean that people coming from rest of Mahrashtra to Mumbai in numbers greater than the UP waale bhaiyyas, are not overcrowding the already over-populated Mumbai.

  83. “To all those who believe that Mumbai belongs exclusively to Marathi Manoos”

    The above statement is a strawman. An equivalent response would be – all people from Bihar essentially covet an UPSC job because it asks for no accountability, provides opportunities for receiving bribes and increases a prospective bihari grooms dowry rate.

  84. @ Geeko,

    I wonder if arnie et al would be able to comprehend your data.
    Seeing their understanding of english, and logical poverty, i’m at loss of words.

    @ Arnie:
    I was agape when I tried to understand your reasoning, which has no logic, only mockery- not for IIT or Biharis, but for yourself.
    I don’t think you understood any point made so far [may be your english comprehension is weak, I dunno Marathi, and you have particular allergy towards Hindi].

    It is for you, i’m repeating in point wise, again:

    1. Biharis/ UPites not only compete railway, but also compete other fair and tough exams like IIT JEE/ UPSC. [my reply to your mockery: not Many Biharis compete IIT, but Many IITians are Bihari/ UPites. when you talk in syllogism crap, talk proper crap]

    2. If you want to compete with them, most welcome. Otherwise whining and nagging is a humiliation for yourself.

    3. Labourers are poor, and they are earning for their families. That’s why they send money to their people.

    4. Violence in any form is not justified. In fact, it is not even close to being a solution even in this case.

    5. Labourers figured out that they do not need to learn Marathi to survive, that’s why they are not learning it. They are already earning with their mother tongue!

    [dose for your big brain: Marathi in no way is a poorer language than Hindi. Just that it’s a regional language, whose scope is within one state, or maximum of 2 states. Hindi is spoken by 1 Billion People world wide.

    Another interesting fact: Bengali was the 5th most spoken language world wide in 2007! This is why labourers not speak Marathi. But for that matter, they don’t speak, Bengali, Oriya, Punjabi or Tamil too!
    But no one except a few Marathi Manoos gets hurt!!

    6. Biharis don’t commit suicide like farmers in Vidarbha. May be we are a poor state, but we have self respect much broader than you. You have ego much taller than your height, so shut the eff up, and talk when you have enough of data, or enough of positive attitude.

    Send your Raj [naam to suna hi hoga] to Bihar, and we’d teach him some manners too, along with some respect towards language and country. I’m sure iske baad uska naam koi nahin sunega.

  85. PS: Why don’t you ask your Raj Manoos a few of these questions:

    1. What is his source [data, figures, journals] of allegations that he is putting
    2. How does he define beating some people with the progress of Bombay
    3. Where was he on 26th November?
    4. Has he helped poor farmers in Vidarbha once? [i being a bihari manoos helped for Gujarat’s earthquake, and for Bihar’s flood. Where is he?]
    5. What are his credentials?

    When I remember Mother Teresa, who worked for a country she wasn’t born in, for the people who were even racially different, I find Raj as a backward bug brained medieval BanManoos [wild gorilla].

  86. @ Nimesh
    “I remember Mother Teresa, who worked for a country she wasn’t born in, for the people who were even racially different”

    But she would force a dying man to hold a cross… strange isnt it.

  87. sigh Nimesh ji all this emosional ataychaar is killing me 🙂

    You (and some other postors) seem to be conflating certain issues. Your posts seem to be aimed at proving a couple of unrelated facts.

    1. You are trying very hard to convince us that Biharis are ‘worthy’ people. “Look they compete in UPSC , IIT etc and get selected”. I guess this need for convincing us stems from the general acceptance of the fact that Bihar is one of the most corrupt states in India. My response: Yes there are many hardworking honest people from Bihar, but this is not germane to the issue being discussed.

    2. Your second argument is a bit vague but I think you are generally trying to say that ‘poor people migrate from Bihar and UP’. When asked why? (the logical answer should have been – there are no jobs in Bihar / UP because there are not enough factories / agricultural opportunities there), you get all defensive and argue – well India is one country, people from interior maharashtra is migrating as well, bombay is bombay because of the portugese :), Bihar is poor because of ‘freight equalisation policy’.

    3. Your 3rd argument seems to be an exhortation to RajT (and his ‘supporters’) to look at the bigger picture (like Mother Teresa) and ‘right but hard options’. This is all fine but RajT is not MotherT 🙂

    So as I said – the two of the largest states in India (Bihar and UP) have to lift their game and start focusing on policies which offer opportunities and employment to all in their states. This can only happen when people demand some form of accountability from their government. However, elections in these two states are primarily based on caste equations.

    Mharashtra is probably not much better but the politicians (of all shades) do understand the need for development (On the other hand Laloo Prasad for years fought on the plank of ‘social justice’ (euphamism for caste based politics). Herein lies the difference.

    Which is why a state like Bihar which is so well naturally endowed with minerals and agricultural land, does not have enough industry and produces less grain that Punjab which is 1/4th the size of Bihar.

    Finally, Nimesh ji, a personal question – are you in high school?

  88. @ Pradeep, PG and arnie
    SO you think that you Marathi people have some special genes which makes you great or different from rest of us? Please speak it out instead of making the point in a roundabout way? Congrats on advancing Hitler’s theory. Because its not the 5% extremist Nazis who paved the way to his rise but the 80% moderate Germans who while didnt approve his violence found some logic in his reasoning and preffered to ignore the violence.
    As to why Maharastra has gone ahead, the answer is simple, Geography!! It has access to a great port in form of Mumbai. If you would look around the world you would find all the world’s great cities ( apart from some country capitals which are located inland because of security reasons ) and business hubs are on the coast or have great access to it. Trade is the single most important thing which contributes to prosperity. Go and read any book on economics to understand this.
    Trade requires a cultures which opens up, absorbs and mixes with other culture. Because without it trade will die. The people of Maharastra have been kind and generous enough to have that attitude over centuries and now you and me are reaping benefit of it. SO please dont be short sighted and doom your future generation.

  89. “how was Bihar (WB) shortchanged in the process? Having minerals in these states are a matter of luck”.

    So was having water near Mumbai and access to ports for Gujarat a matter of luck So why were they not “penalized” for that like Bihar and Bengal were for having minerals? I am sure Bihar could have used the “leveling of the playing field” with respect to access to ports. Taking this further, why was not a fairness surchange imposed on Punjab and Haryana for having benefitted from the Green Revolution (a matter of luck since they grew wheat) whereas Orissa did not?
    It is funny and sad to what level bigoted Manoos will go to justify their parochialism.

  90. @ Contra and Rohan,

    India’s trade is miniscule with the rest of the world. We still have an internal bias in our production of manufactured goods. The role of ports in the development of Maharashtra or Gujarat is grossly overstated (Incidentally WB has ports too – what went wrong?)

  91. @ arnie
    India trade is miniscule, thats why it has not developed as much. However even that miniscule trade has made helped the prosperity of Maharastra. SO be thankful to God for it!! The trade gives a starting momentum to a city which is very powerful.
    Calcutta has disadvantage as compared to Mumbai when it comes to as a port. Go and see the map of India with respect to the world to figure it out.

  92. @ Contra

    Wrong. The relationship between trade and development is not that straight forward. Many sub-saharan african countries have traditionally had huge trade relations.
    I don’t see what disadvantage calcutta has, unless you notice that Navasheva port turns around a ship in 2 days and calcutta port takes 14 days to do the same.

  93. @ arnie
    Have you ever thought why bihar/bengal/orissa was at forefront in India in and around 1000 BC to 1000 AD . The great kings like Ashoka/Chandragupta/Vikramaditya and their empires were based out of Magadh. THis was because it was an inland region and thus protected from outside attacks. The trading through port was not developed then (in India) and hence the plains were the places which were most developed. Geography has a great hold on societies than what your brain comprehends.
    Cut to present, its Maharastra and Gujarat which are most developed because of ports and trade which is not as miniscule as you make it out to be. And anyway it has advantage of having the positive momentum of being a port city for few century. Be thankful for it and get rid of your arrogance.

  94. @ arnie
    Which sub saharan country are you referring to? Can you give examples. And even in that case you will observe to things 1) It didnt develop as much because it was conquered and exploited. Same way as India. 2) The prosperity I am talking here is relative. The port in that country would be more prosperous than the rest of regions (Ex Cairo and Egypt). Its not as if Maharastra is properous when compared to rest of world. Its only prosperous when compared to Bihar/UP/Benagl/Orissa. What we are talking about is RELATIVE properity

  95. @arnie
    Mumbai has better access to Europe, middle east and africa. It also benifitted greatly due to construction of Suez canal. Is it that hard to figure out??

  96. @ Contra

    So you are arguing that India would have been subject to sea based attacks during 1000 BC to 1000 AD? Alexander, Ghazni, Ghori came by sea? Incidentally Cholas had a navy and conqured parts of SE Asia.

    I know geography has a role – but in India’s case it is institutions or lack of it or deliberate undermining of institutions. Google ‘resource curse’.

  97. Arnie, Calcutta has a river port not a sea port. Ding !!! I note you didnt reply to my little Green Revolution thing –if you had you wouldnt be asking about Punjab and Haryana. Again out of curiousity, which great state has farmers committing suicide? Hint: It aint Bengal or Bihar.

    Wiki says:

    “According to another study by the Bureau, while the number of farm suicides increased since 2001, the number of farmers has fallen, as thousands abandoning agriculture in distress[8]. According to government data, over 5,000 farmers committed suicide in 2005-2009 in Maharashtra, while 1,313 cases reported by Andhra Pradesh between 2005 and 2007. In Karnataka the number stood at 1,003, since 2005-06 till August 2009. In the last four years, cases in Kerala were about 905, Gujarat 387, Punjab 75 and Tamil Nadu 26.[9].”

    Oh what I get it. Farmers in Bengal and Bihar already commited suicide ! Or moved to Maharashtra. Wonder whose lands were being taken over in Nandigram then !

    My point stands. Bigots will do anything to justify their parochialism.

  98. @ Rohan,

    Ah river port – though still superior to what Punjab and Haryan would have had. Green revolution was a function of high yield variety seeds which required lots of water. Bihar and WB have a perennial source of river water. Why don’t we have productivity development there?

    Farmer suicide – funny. Can I argue that labour from Bihar can migrate somewhere (at least those that haven’t been killed in inter-caste battles between Rajputs, Yadavs, bhumihars etc). Where would maharashtra farmers migrate? to bihar? Second, I thought we agreed the development is ‘relative’. Does not really mean that all is hunky dory in Maharashtra.

  99. @arnie
    Is your train of thought still at boarding station???
    I said because of being inland and having fertile plains that region was very developed during that era. I am not saying that Maharastra was under developed during that era or something like that. Where did I say that?
    The Punjab and all that area acted as shield for the people much inland. There were the people who resisted Alexander and tried to resist Ghazni and the ilks.
    The fertile plains have been not much use now because 1) The Bristish destroyed our agricultural system which was much advanced earlier 2) Bihar’s agriculture was killed during last century because of two rivers Kosi/Gandak. These two made the region the worst flood hit region in the world. Millions have died and got displaced because of it. The river was not a menance in earlier centuries because the course of the river has changed over centuries and for worse. People from bihar can make the arguement that if the resources were exclusively utilised to protect from it and help agriculture then they would have been much much better of.

  100. Please substantiate the British destroying the highly developed agriculture of Bihar.
    Second, I notice huge excuses being made for Bihar’s floods, what about Maharashtra’s drought? Atleast Bihar has perennial water supplies.

  101. @arnie
    again the difefrence is of scale. If the droughts of Maharastra were the same scale of Bihar’s flood or Bengal’s famine then you would see the effects. I hope it never happens and I am surprised at your lack of empathy. Really is winning a debate because you have some preconcieved notions of people from some regions everything to you? Why cant you come out and say that you dont support even a single portion of Raj’s agenda and want no participation in his platform. Why cannot you say you have some issues but you would raise it through a different platform which wont have any connect in anyway with Raj Thackery. Is it that difficult for you? Because if you are not saying that then that means that you are tacitly saying that you support Raj Thackery. So if you lean that way then come on say it.
    As for Bristish destroying agriculture, isnit it enough that no advance in agriculture took place while they ruled India, while the rest of world leaped forward. Or that people were forced to plant cash crops ( so that they can export it to UK) in soils which were not as all suitable for it and they were denied to plant rice and feed themselves? Is it not enough? The reason why Bristish rule left India much more battered than other exploiters is that it destroyed rural India. While the other attackers were content to loot cities and temple for gold, the Britishers plundered the country in true sense of word!!

  102. “Mumbai has better access to Europe, middle east and africa. It also benifitted greatly due to construction of Suez canal. Is it that hard to figure out??”

    So why did Hong Kong and Singapore develop? Why didn’t Karachi develop? By your logic all one needs is a port and ding!! you develop 🙂

  103. “Green revolution was a function of high yield variety seeds which required lots of water. Bihar and WB have a perennial source of river water. Why don’t we have productivity development there?”

    It is difficult to argue with ignorance especially when it is combined with bigotry. Green revolution came with respect to wheat (70% vs nearly 35% in terms of lands that could benefit from high-yield seeds) and that was a happy historic chance that wheat grows in Punjab/Haryana and the the Bhakra Nagngal dam is in that region also. A happy historic chance just like Bihar and Bengal having minerals. Except that only one historic chance needed equalization.

    In the same vein, my point with respect to sea-port was to show that Mumbai also has “lucky advantages” which were not sought to be equalized.

    This of course is howler.

    “Where would maharashtra farmers migrate? to bihar? Second, I thought we agreed the development is ‘relative’. Does not really mean that all is hunky dory in Maharashtra.”

    Yes dearie. Much as you Manoos may not like to accept it, death is not preferable to going to Bihar. When you have the highest rate of farmer suicides in the country, its time you have the decency to not brush it under the carpet as a “slight inconvenience” (all is not hunky-dory)—it is a shame on India that a so-called developed state like Maharashtra lets farmers die. Wonder what Raj-ji does for them. Easier to beat a poor Bihari trying to give an exam than do something positive no?

    By the way did you see what Advani-ji said !

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/special-news-report/rssfeed/Maharashtra-is-Bihar-of-90s/Article1-462510.aspx

    Maharashtra is like the Bihar of the 90s ! Ho ho ho ! Let some more Biharis come in dude—then at least it can strive to be the Bihar of the 2000s.

  104. Hong Kong and Singapore are on coast and port.
    And friend go back two decades earlier and you will see how developed Karachi was?
    And i never said that its the only condition. Only you would be stupid to believe that. Friend its never 0 and 1 . Its the degree of importance!

  105. And Karachi is most developed compared to rest of Pakistan. ITS RELATIVE DEVELOPMENT i am talking about. How hard is it for you to understand that??????

  106. “Starting out as a fishing village, salt production site and trading ground,[20] it would evolve into a military port of strategic importance and eventually an international financial centre that enjoys the world’s 6th highest GDP (PPP) per capita, supporting 33% of the foreign capital flows into China.[21]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong

    In 1819, the British East India Company, led by Sir Stamford Raffles, established a trading post on the island, which was used as a port along the spice route.[9] Singapore became one of the most important commercial and military centres of the British Empire, and the hub of British power in Southeast Asia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore

  107. @ Contra

    But But – if you have followed the whole debate, my starting premise was that folks like RajT (and Hitler) get votes because of popular frustration. His uncle did the same thing with South Indians. The point is you have to start building ‘escape valves’. Saying ‘India is one country’ MAY not cut it (Note: It should have been a good enough argument but the problem is that the economic pie is getting smaller for a large section of population and it is easy to find convenient excuses).

  108. No Karachi is the largest – Lahore is the richest (and Islamabad). My point was that Singapore is further away from mid-east, europe, suez and Karachi is closer to these places than Mumbai.

  109. @ Rohan
    Green revolution was not ‘luck’ – it was a scientific endeavour. Laloo ji of course argued that the Government is taking away electricity from water and providing it to people in Punjab, Haryana. He is providing water ‘with electricity’ and social justice to boot 🙂

    second, well if farmers / labourers in developed Bihar are not committing suicide but are migrating to Mumbai (or becoming Naxals) whereas farmers in Maharashtra are choosing to kill themselves rather than go to Bihar – it does appear that death is preferable to going to Bihar (Remember the popular joke – India offered Kashmir to Mushy if he would also agree to take Bihar? ) 🙂

    And what now we are quoting Advani 🙂

  110. It baffles me that people have left no stone unturned in providing reasons (some valid , some childish) for Bihar’s bad state, but have not understood that the very reason for having a federal structure in the country and having 2-tier parliamentary governance is to ensure better local governance and have representation from each and every corner of the country. And Bihar is not unequally or under-represented at the centre. If there was a political will, the people’s representatives would have taken the cause of development over these 60 years. All I see here is constant whining about the past policies and natural calamities. And whats with the floods here? You mean other states have never witnessed natural calamities?

    I would really appreciate if Contra and Rohan can put in front of us, few steps taken by government of Bihar to make it an attrative investment destination.

    Just take for example the Tata Nano case. The moment problems started in Singur not less than 6 states (Gujarat Maharshtra,MP,Karnataka,Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu) were trying to get it into their states. Nowhere do we see or hear any positive will from Bihar or UP to draw any investment. And now, when you have mining corporations trying to invest, they are met with naxal resistance.

    So please come up with some examples of political will shown by leaders of this states and we can take the debate forward from there.

    The idea and impression about these states is getting increasingly soiled by callous attitude of their leaders. Why cannot they challenge Maharashtra and Gujarat and take them on head on? And this can be done (with or without ports).

  111. @PG
    and Naxals are putting the same arguement that you are putting. That outsiders will come with the mining corporations and they will get the best jobs in toses corporation. That they would destroy their culture and etc etc. They are unwilling to see the bigger picture as you are doing now.
    As for political will of the leaders of this states, how is relevant to arguement? My parents live there and they think that Nitish is a lesser eveil than Lalu and have voted for him. I hope that the vicious circle ends and slowly turns towards good. But I dont see any relevance of this here.
    Surely if you talk about political will you can see how much of that is lacking in current crop of Maharastra leaders. What have they done in last decade. Delhi has been given a very very preferential treatement when compared to Mumbai when it comes to allocation fo resources or infrastructure. What have the leader done for that. The problems of farmers have been well documented.The corruption level is very high, the less said about Sharad Pawar and his daughter’s empire the better. Even Raj thackery is starting to catch up.

    But anyway what I want to know is that wether you guys support Raj Thackery and his agenda or not? Partial support doesnt mean anything. You either vote for him or you dont. Its not as if you can vote fractionally. I have asked this 3-4 times and none of you said that you are against Raj Thackery. All i get is I dont support violence but blah blah . That only means you support him. My point is why dont you say it openly? Then we can take this further.

  112. And India doesnt have Federal government in true sense. If you want to see an example of truely federal government look at US. And even there people dont raise such a hue and cry over people migratng to New York and dont resort to violence. I find it hypocritical that people would raise such a hue and cry over so-called-migrants and then send their children to US.

  113. @Contra:

    If you had not conveniently overlooked my previous post you would have come across these lines in my post:

    “What I Vinayak, Pradeep are trying to do is to point out towards this issue.
    That does not equate to us supporting Raj Thackeray or his methods.”

    Does it quench your thirst?

    On the other hand, I can accuse you of not acknowledging the fact that the lack of political will to turn things around by the leaders in Bihar and UP are the contributory factor to this situation. There is nothing difficult to understand the simple fact that if Bihar and UP have poltical will to create enough jobs in their own states, the unorganized sector will have something to hold on to. Currently they dont have choice but to migrate out. And their position in Maharshtra is exploited by leaders like Abu Azmi. And then the “shit hits the fan”.
    I have explained the circle of events in detail in one of my above posts, so I shall not reiterate.

    And where are the examples of any initiative by Mayawati or Niteesh attracting investment in their states? I am still waiting for that from your side. Why is it that any sort of accountability is not sought by people for their primary responsibility that is to work for their constituency?

    And its your choice to agree or disagree with me but if the situation does not improve in that belt, you will see more statements like the one by Shivraj Singh Chauhan and Narendra Modi (wondering what were those statements? Read my previous posts for links).

  114. @PG
    When has Narendra bhai ever said anything against non-Gujaratis?

    @HP,
    Don’t beat around the bush. Let us talk “specifics”, not guesses. When has Narendra bhai advocated violence? Against whom?

  115. Himesh,
    You seem to be rumbling the same JEE/UPSC/Hindi numbers facts again and again. Just recently, your folks have added utter childish arguments like freight rationalisation, ports, minerals and Maurya empire to the already confused debate. Even after Arnie and PG’s balanced arguments, you seem not to understand (conveniently) some simple facts. Let me help shatter your arguments one by one. Before that, let me clarify that I do not oppose Raj’s methods. Unfair and frustrating, but there are just no other ways to do what he is trying to achieve. Before you start your emotional atyaachaar (as Arnie pointed correctly), these are some simple and valid reasons of MNS for what they are doing:
    1. Uncontrolled migration of ‘bodies’ from UP/Bihar to slightly better off Maharashtra. MNS did not start this migration, your politicians forced it on your folks.
    2. Malpractices in recruitments, most notably in Railways. They are unfair and unjust.
    3. The sense of utter arrogance regarding anything ‘native’, which comes with sheer numerical strength.
    4. Bragging of constitutional rights granted to every Indian to go to any place in India. The constitution also doesn’t permit anyone to grab public land and put shitloads of slums on it. These laws are not mutually exclusive but they work in tandem.

    Till now, your arguments have been:
    1. We are Indians first, so we can do whatever we want to. It’s allowed by constitution.
    2. We have the numbers and the numbers are right, always.
    3. Other states stole minerals through frieght equalisation, while our politicians were struggling for social justice.
    4. Raj is bad and our politicians are angels.
    5. We have contributed to all the progress in India. It was just the other states and natural factors that prevented UP/Bihar from developing.
    6. We are either JEE/UPSC crackers or hard workers. There are no other categories amongst our folks.

    Now let me help you putting off your misconcenptions:

    1. Hum JEE/UPSC cracker hoon isliye hum correct hoon..

    UP/Biharis work hard and get major chunk of seats in these two competitive exams. Fair enough. There are hard working people in every community and your folks work even harder in these exams. Suprisingly, you have been bragging about this single argument right from start. When did RajT prevent UP/Bihari IITians from coming to Maharashtra? Has his supporters attacked any JEE/UPSC cracker till now? If the sole purpose of this argument is to show that UP/Biharis are the most hard working people in the contruy, I may accept it for a moment. But how does it go against the Raj’s points listed above?

    Let me help you understand why you give so much of importance particularly to these two exams, while we don’t.

    A. Lack of options for good quality education: This link shows that UP doesn’t have more than 30 engineering colleges http://www.educationinfoindia.com/engg/uttarpradesheng.html
    there are no more than 20 engineering colleges in Bihar.
    If you remove the older streams like textile and silk, and centrally funded institutes (IIT K, BHU, IMI), the number drops further.
    The stats mean – For a population of about 25% of our country, there are only 50 engineering colleges in these two states. It would be interetsing to know how many of these institutes were visited by tier 1-3 IT companies for the campus interviews, one of the best ways of getting into the IT industry and leading to a slightly better life.

    The same source shows there are 47 engg colleges in T’Nadu, more than 60 in Karnataka, more than 40 under Mumbai University and about 36 in Pune University.

    What does it mean? If joining IT after engg or going for MS to the USA is the sole objective, it’s far easier to enroll into the decent colleges in Mumbai, Pune, Bangalore or Chennai rather than waiting hopelessly to crack JEE. Does everyone from UP/Bihar crack the JEE in the first attempt without preparing separately for a year or two? That would be interesting to know. These two years of extra prep is exactly how much it takes to do an MS or MBA, you may know. Time is money, you lose one-two years in prep, you lose big time in life in this part of India.

    Gheens gheenskar JEE prep karne se achha mast paiki 10+2 ke baad 4 year engg karneka Mumbai/Pune ke kisi private college mein, IT mein job leneka Pune/Mumbai/Bangalore mein, 2 saal baad foren jaaneka, 3-4 saal saving karneka, ek masta paiki 3 BHK flat leneka yeh 3 mein se koi city mein..Majjani life hain re dikra apne state mein!!

    B. Financial incentives – fair and unfair:
    There is no earth shattering difference in average/median salaries offered to your ‘hard’ working UP/Biharis in IITs and simiarly hardworking students in the premium engg schools down South. Most of the IT product companies go there for recruitments. Even if 100 of your folks hit big-time post BTech, what about the rest? They come to the same pool as others from the engg schools.

    This may sound bit naive, but it seems there are big-time dowry offered to your folks when they secure admits into IITs. Why not, that single achievement takes one out of the hellhole that your states are and parents pay the dowry premium to get their daughters out of your states as well! Ironic, you never utter anything about these holier-than-thou practices. Even more ironic, how many IITians would like to stay in your states to improve it?

    Fortunately, the dowry for ‘IT job/ stay in the US’ is not the norm in my state. The girls’ parents here do not give a hoot if one graduates from IITs or UDCT or Pune University, as long as one has a good job and sound brain.

    Aur agar gaye bhi aapke log IITs mein to kya teer maara aapne? Post graduation, I don;t see them joining brain challenging tasks like ISRO or transforming an entire industry or a private/public sector. Of course it would by my average intelligence if I do not know that G Madhavan Nair, Annadurai, E Sridharan, R H Patil do not have Yadav as the surname! Or blame it on my parochial views if I tell you that the pioneers in IT services industry were mostly from the South – Murthys, Ramadorais, Patnis and South is where the IT industry flourished and will do so for considerable future. The 2 crore IT jobs created by IITians is just another hogwash! I guess the real wage arbitrage seekers in GE and Texas Instruments (who set-up shop in Bangalore in the 80s) were not all IIT products as you would like us to believe.

    About UPSC: Himesh dude, you know how corrupt the IAS/IPS/ICS officers are and still you brag about them because they are from your states? Is there any co-incidence that the UPSC crackers are mostly from your states, and they compete in corruption and inefficiency. May be pride for your community, but it’s a real shame!

    C. You have been careful not to mention IIMs in the same breath as IIT/UPSC: Why, because billi pariksha (CAT) aapke matrubhasha mein likh nahin likh sakate aap?? Gotcha in verbals!! Ever heard of unfair advantage? The rest of the ‘vernacular’ medium students run for 100 meters, while you get that extra advantage as your language is accepted in most of the exams and recruitment! And you say that you were the most gifted Indians in cracking exams!!

    Hope this much of gyaan will tame your ‘Hum IIT/UPSC cracker hoon’ syndrome!

    2. Humre minerals loot liye badmaash log:
    Humre paani se bijli nikaal liye, humre dharti se minerals nikaal liye, humre sasoor ki jaaydaad – railways se minerals le bhaag gaye badmaash log!!

    Freight rationalization is the biggest culprit in making UP/Bihar/Bengal being industrially disadvantaged states!!! That’s some news!! Serious WTF logic I have come across ever..
    Himesh, Rohan, you are the Einsteins in UP/Bihari economics.
    Guys, you should seriously apply for next year’s Nobel. Obama got it this year for no reason, there is no reason why you or the original proponent of this rationalisation rubbish shouldn;t get one!

    There are always some conspiracy theories, like those still prevalent in Pak – Hindu/Zionists having arranged 26/11 and 9/11. Seems some of your Gurus are working extra time to convince you about freight rationalisation and it’s effects on your states.

    I can hear GreatBong rolling on the floor LOL to know that this policy solely killed Bengal industry. Guys, just check Arnab’s insightful posts like Red Eye. Bengal is backward because of just two words- Jyoti Basu and UP/Bihar are backwards because these three words – rotten caste politics. That includes the great MullaYamSingh, Lallu, Chhayawati and their ilk. Most of them coming from the tutelege of the great JaiPrakash Narayan doesn’t help the understand the conundrum.

    Get on with life guys. Even if the freight rationalisation was to be cancelled, do you thing UP/Bihar/Bangal would benefit? You kid me not.
    If you think CPM would help in setting up steel plants and Didi would let it happen, or if you think Didi sets up these plants after two years and CPM unions would let the industries run, to jaao pehle us doctor ko apna dimaag dikhakar aao, jisne Patna medical school beena attend kiye degree liya!

    Do you really believe that new industries will be set up in Bihar and Maoists would let those run. Even if the Maoists are tamed, do you think the kidnapping industry of your state would let the workers reach the factory and back home? Do you think a Yadav would work in the foundry while Paswan works next to him in the supply chain? Such are the joys are thinking of various perm-combinations in your states!

    On another note, do you folks think petrol/diesel finds its way to UP/Bihar through South-Western Monsoon? Does natual gas/LPG/CNG comes to your states from Lallu’s tabela? I thought most of the supplies come through the ports, and these products cost the same all over the country! Care to validate where ONGC gets most of its oil/gas from before bragging the humra minerals chor liye crap?

    3. Rashtrabhasha Hindi ki jai ho, baaki sab bhaag jao:
    With power comes responsibility and with brute numbers comes arrogance!
    Arrogance in scrapping each and every law while boasting the right to migrate anywhere in the country in droves, illegally grabbing public land to build slums and suck limited resources, and justifying Hindi as the sole representative language for entire India (err, did you say Hindia?).

    Let’s accept. Some states are national burden and the burden should be shared by all the states. Tamil Nadu, be generous to these cracking hard workers, learn their language because their’s is limited to a bigger ‘region’ while yours is to a smaller one (they have the numebrs you see) and keep in mind that your state took the minerals away through rationalisation. Apparently, Lallu rationalised the situation by giving his folks a birth-right to roam around free for job interviews. chalo, kam se kam Bharat darshan to ho jaayega!!

    4. You must agree that Raj is wrong, nahin to main Gabbar ko bol dunga:
    I think it’s the better sense of PG, Vinayak, Arnie not to say openly that they support Raj. If I say that I support him (given an option of saying either Yes or No), aap Gabbar ko bol doge kya? Ya Babu Azmi ko bol doge?

    Just take a moment and think what really happened, who won and who lost:

    Babu Azmi: will secure his second seat from the Minority/UP migrant constituency of Bhiwandi. Most probably his Son or the ‘two reaons’ daughter-in-law (Takiya) will stand from there. There was a serious chance of SP losing this seat to the local independent once Azmi chose to retain his Govandi seat. Had the slap-gate over Hindi not happened in the assembly, there was no chance of Bhiwandi voting for SP again in the by-elections. Azmi got a slap but will retain his second seat.

    MNS: Nothing is stopping this party from eating into ShivSena’s votebank. They got 20% votes in Mumbai. If the elections are held immediately, that number will go considerably up. Raj and his supporters’ agreesiveness will increase leading to the Mumbai Corporation elections in 2011. BMC’s annual budget is far more than many of the states in India and has been the single largest cash cow of ShivSena. That’s the real target of Raj. Get that cow and target the assembly after five years.

    ShivSena: Sole loser. They ditched the original cause and became a tail of BJP’s Hindu cause. Tiger’s son was found to be a Meoow! He knew it was coming and so hedged the risk by spreading into Marathwada and Vidarbha. Wait till 2011, they are losing Mumbai, big time. Himesh and other ‘hard-workers’ will rejoice, but wait!! Just like Didi is more left than CPM, Raj is even more aggressive and cunning than Tiger.

    Kangress: Unfortunate winner. Played its cards well but they did the same in 1960s. Propped-up Tiger to get rid of MES-CPM combine, then gave a free hand to Tiger in Mumbai to get rid of nuisances like ‘outsiders’ and liberals. Sad, but this party is sucking the state big time.

    Hope this much helps you before you blabber again.

  116. @Bengal Voice:

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/modi-challenges-centre-woos-national-audience/67022-3.html

    The statement I was referring to was the one in which Narendra Modi challenged centre to not to take any tax money from Gujarat and in return Gujarat can manage without any aid from centre. In an other statement he has also said that if Gujarat was a separate country, it would have fared better than India.
    Now if people chose the get emotional over this politically incorrect statement, they can do so. After all this is against the idea of one country or the Union of India, as suggested by the constitution. Isn’t it? Congress termed it as ‘Treason’.

    But if people are smart enuf, they should understand the underlying disparity between the states of the (Bihar UP Jharkhand, WB) and (Gujarat Maharshtra and Karnataka). Its only fair to expect returns on your efforts. And if someone else has a free run in that regard ; as in getting maximum aid from centre which does not translate to any sort of positive movement, then it is bound to cause frustration amongst others. The point is that no one, who cares to argue with me, is ready to acknowledge the fact that the its high time that these states take up some responsibility and push the development agenda. And its high time people start holding the leaders of this state accountable for development. And if the status-quo remains, then it should not surprise that you will hear such voices far more frequently and from other parts of the country as well.

    Contra says that his parents chose Niteesh since he is a lesser evil. But my question to him is that why is it that Bihar has absolutely no choice but to vote for an evil(lesser or greater). Do you see any political party coming up there who can contest election on the plank of development? Even if such party comes up, will it find popular support (like it does in Gujarat)? The answer is NO. So till that time people will keep on migrating, and their sheer numbers will create problems. Maharashtra has taken the maximum of it and hence is more vocal than others. But this will not stop at Maharashtra.

  117. Man a less traveled person would assume that this PG fella is talking about Switzerland, save the hyperbole for the ignorant. We all know how “developed” these places are. Per capita income of my state is a few thousand rupee more, doesn’t mean that I am “developed”.

    Google or NetApp or Intel opens its center in Bangalore because they want the best Engineers in “India” to work there the moment you impose conditions that only locals can work there they are going to go away, we already have a strong competition building up in East Asia last thing we want is local satraps screwing up the image that took 60 years to build, Honda is in Gurgaon because it sells all over India. If the rest of India imposes 200% levy like it is done on imported cars they won’t be there. The tax you are so proudly showing around wont be there if Reliance and Tata stops filing its “All India” corporate taxes from Mumbai. Nano won’t be selling cars in Gujrat only.

    Tailpiece -: GOI spends Rs 40000 per capita in J&K and 8000 per capita in Bihar, not that I would expect a person learning his history from Saamna to know this.

  118. @all the above…
    Understand 1 simple fact that Mumbai is what is today because of the the diverse nature of population staying in here… Mumbai of today is NOT the sole creation of the Marathi Manoos…

  119. *Bows before infinite dose of Pradeepian logic!* It is wonderful that you couldn’t gather when so much water has already crossed the bridge!

    @ Arnie:

    You surely have some comprehension problem in English. Try asking someone to convert it in marathi for you.

    @ Others:
    I sometimes wonder, if the data interpretation is so tough!!!

  120. @Pradeep

    1. Freight Equalisation was definitely a major contributor to the flight of capital from Eastern India. The policy clearly discriminated against East; why – for example was cotton not included under frieght equalisation ? That would have nullified the locational advantage of the mills in Mumbai. While I do agree that the politicians in the East have not helped matters, by taking up populist postures and the Eastern “janta” even more so, by electing these politicians to power, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Eastern India has been subject to discriminatory treatment due to Central policies. Also the extent of damage that has been tone cannot be reversed even if freight equalisation is abolished (which in fact it has).

    2. “the pioneers in IT services industry were mostly from the South – Murthys, Ramadorais, Patnis and South is where the IT industry flourished and will do so for considerable future”

    Patni fromthe South ?? Naren Patni is a Gujarati !!

  121. @Bengal Voice,

    And I also would like to know what part of my below statement you did not comprehend?

    =============================================

    Really, what part of my statement would make be culpable for libel? I would love to know.

    Similar scenarios would entail narrow mindedness or chauvinistic behavior or violence or inciting violence or not stopping violence when one was in a position to stop it. I guess Modi would definitely fall in some or the other category.

    ===================================

    Modi talked about [GB adds: Again any accusation would have to be backed by links] Some similarities there?

  122. @ Krishna

    Yes freight equalisation would have contributed to flight of capital from Bihar / WB. This also means that one has to acknowledge that the ‘ceterus paribus’ condition (all other things being equal) does not hold across regions. If Gujarat / Maharashtra / Karnatak did not offer better conditions for industry there was no reason for industries to move away from Bihar / WB. Note Tatas still hang around in Jharkhand (previously Bihar) and got a reality check in WB recently. Note that Bihar gets a huge amount of royalty payments because of her mineral wealth. That of course could have been used to develop state infrastructure but of course it went down a blak hole and left the people of Bihar with a vague victim complex and a huge sense of entitlement.

    @ Nimesh – my sincere apologies for retaining a comprehension problem. This can only point to another deficiency of the UPSC system. Because I too was one of the ‘crackers’ despite lacking the ability to comprehend the english language. Hopefully your lucid english skills would have clarified the issue for everybody who has been reading.

  123. @ Spark ji – regards J&K and Bihar

    May I suggest not going through ‘pre-digested’ information from vague newspapers (or the Manorama Year book). Please read the Finance Commission reports (they determine share of central taxes to be given to States). There you will learn about Special category states (J&K, North East) and non-special category states (Bihar, UP, Maharashtra, Gujarat).

    Do you know (see link), the ‘poor’ state Government of Bihar spends the HIGHEST amount of money PER employee (on average) (around Rs 100,000) compared to Maharashtra (Rs 73,000) and Gujarat (Rs 83,000)? And then they have the gall to claim that they don’t receive anough money from the Centre?

    http://fincomindia.nic.in/ShowContentOne.aspx?id=8&Section=1

  124. @Arnie

    Agreed. I do not think I said that freight equalisation was the ONLY cause of industrial backwardness of the Eastern states. However frieght equalisation (and a few other industrial policies of the centre) did have serious impact on the industrial prospects of these states and that needs to be understood and acknowledged if one is talking about industrial backwardness in Eastern India. One cannot simply wish it away as “WTF logic”.

  125. “Do you know (see link), the ‘poor’ state Government of Bihar spends the HIGHEST amount of money PER employee (on average) (around Rs 100,000) compared to Maharashtra (Rs 73,000) and Gujarat (Rs 83,000)? And then they have the gall to claim that they don’t receive anough money from the Centre?”

    How does this nullify my statement? :O

  126. @pradeep
    Friend it will gladden your manoos heart to know that I am from IIM having overcome poor verbal ability (the curse of being a Bihari).Unfortunately there were lots of bihari there in my batch ( purely statistical anamoly because surely ur logic cannot be wrong ).
    Now this IITIIMUPSC is useless to the debate so can we set that aside. In fact it says bad about the system in Bihar that so many student here are desperate for IIT.
    Rest of your points I will reply later as I am on vacation and typing on Mobile is tough.
    As a side note the roads here in Patna have improved greatly in last year and more importantly the biggest improvement is in access to village. Now I am great believer in importance of roads in sustainable growth, so I hope things will improve.
    And hey if you and your sena goons planning to storm tendulkar’s residence or something like that then I would greatly appreciate a advance tip so that I can watch it live on TV. Seeing you on TV will only increase my admiration of you.

  127. JAI MAHARASHTRA ! jAI hIND!

    i LOVED D DIALOGUE FROM “KAMINEY” ..”huM YAHA DUDDH MEN SHAKKAR KI TARAH HAIN,AGAR yaha se CHALE GAYE TOH DUDDH KAMM NAHI HOGA PARR PHEKA ZAROOR PAD JAYEGA” (WHERE DUDH IS BAMBAI N SHAKKAR IS BIHARI’S N UP WALAS.)

    GREAT DEBATE GOING ON.
    I Seriously think RajT is a Dyanamic leader,he has gr8 potential in him,if he goes on the right track he can even become Maha’s CM one day!
    NO one has hatred towards Bihari’s but itz towards their politicians nd leaders , who do nothing but erect their statues , fill gold in their pockets n leave dere ppl 2 die.
    The SP N RJD do nothing 4 development of their states n their main motive is 2 win elections.Amar singh has noother work other than escorting Bachan Family “N” Mulayam singh Can giv only hatred speeches.
    The SP N OThers wantedly n knowingly Do All This 2 Irritate MNS ND 2 come into limelight n seek attention.

  128. HP wrote: “what part of my below statement you did not comprehend.”

    Tsk…Tsk…I hope you’ve learned to comprehend by now what the fair and unbiased owner of this blog expects as being reasonable (from his blog’s readers).

    If merely pointing out alarming signs (of one-sided demographic Jihad being waged in India) is too violent an act for you, then go blame the Government of India’s Census 2001 data. Or better still, blame the Government of India’s upcoming Census 2011 data. When India turns into a Lebanon, then you have no one left to blame.

  129. @ Spark

    How does this nullify my statement? :O

    Sigh…difference between J&K and Bihar was explained on the basis of Special and non-special cateory states (incidentally – find out how much money Sikkim receives per person). The next paragraph was trying to address the wail that ‘my State is poor’. Hope this helps.

  130. @ Spark ji

    As for the rest of your ‘arguments’ – surely even you can see that it is plain silly. The fact that Google or Honda wants to be in India to access the Indian market is given. The question that is being asked is that – why are they setting up shops in Gurgaon or Bangalore rather than in Patna or Bhagalpur? Hope this helps.

  131. “The fact that Google or Honda wants to be in India to access the Indian market is given.”

    What is not given is the imposition of certain “conditions” by a local goonda on whom to hire and whom not hire. And their supporters who have bought the la-la land story. Maybe you didn’t get the point, reading again after wiping the lather might help. 🙂

  132. “What is not given is the imposition of certain “conditions” by a local goonda on whom to hire and whom not hire.”

    @ Spark ji,

    If that was indeed your argument why bring in the ‘idea’ that other States are infact doing Gurgaon / Bangalore a favour by not imposing a 200 % tax?

    Also why deal in hypotheticals? If Tata and Reliance were to move away from Mumbai it would serve as a lesson for RajT. Then it would be good no? You should think about how to get Relaince and Tata headquatered in Patna.

    Similarly, if things were to really get that bad (after all there have been petitions asking to reserve 30% jobs in Karnataka for Kannadigas), do you think companies would move to Bihar to get the ‘best’ talent based on non-discrimination?

  133. @Arnie sir,

    Thats what I am saying, companies would not move to Bihar, they would just go away to Beijing. My point is reputations are hard to build and easy to destroy, “RULE OF LAW” is the mantra, Law being the keyword here. There is severe competition from East Asia for investments, our PR till date has been Human Resource which will last 10 more years. We lack in Infrastructure we can’t reach their level in 10 years, so reputation is all we have. Political violence is not giving a good reputation to us.

    I am not from Bihar not I have been there, I am from “Developed” Delhi but I have seen wide spread poverty all over India, so I don’t buy the argument that some states in India are Rwanda and some are Western Europe. Some places have lagged behind others, that doesn’t mean we leave them behind and break up the country. Its just been 15-20 year since liberalization, it is very small frame to decide the fate of the nation.

  134. Cudnt really go thro’ all the comments..

    I wud categorically say that the North Indians, especially the Hindi speaking ones , refuse to learn other languages. I havent seen a single north indian friend of mine even bothering to speak 3 words in Kannada inspite of living in Bangalore for more than 10 years. they always talk in Hindi wherever they go and expect others to answer them in tht language.
    They always say with contempt tht “Vhennai mein koi hindi nahin bolta”..

    Its like me going to noida and expect an auto driver to talk to me in tamil mallu or kannada.

    Simply put, if u r making a short term business visit, talk in English. if u r settling down in an place, please learn the language of tht land and converse in tht outside your house.

    Millions of south indians who have migrated to toher parts of India have been doing this. North Indians have to start doing this. the refusal to do this is called “Hindi arrogance”..

    All North Indians, please please wake up from ur deep slumber and realise tht there is no national language in India. The cultural ethos of our country as diverse as this cannot be represented by only one language. India is like Europe and please stop this fascination of “my language is the national language and evryone else shd speak it.

    And kindly dont put the lame argument tht English is a foreign language. English shd be the most effective link language and communication language. We, non-hindi speakers prefer to speak in English so tht all of us will learn it and u dont have an undue advantage.

  135. And Kishor, please be advised tht Kerala is the no:1 producer of spices and cash crops in India and the cultivation of these things were promoted way back from 1950s by the successive central govt:s. And the NRIs of kerala (more thna 50% of them low level unskilled labourers) contribute more than 50% of the forex coming to our country every year.

    So, chec your lines before you type this kinda nonsense !!!

    infact, all banks collect money from kerala as deposits and distribute them in karnataka and tamilnadu by way of loans. This practice has been in the wane of-late after stringent regulations pertaiing to loan-deposit ration have been put in place.

  136. But what use are the companies in Bangalore if they dont recruit locals ? Why shd Bangaloreans suffer the traffic snarls created by these guys when the no: of localites employed in the s/w companies are very less ? There must be mandatory laws that the lcalites recruitment should be encouraged. Anyways, state govt:s provide so much sops for all these guys.

    Mamta di is doing the right thing by announcing that railway exams would be conducted in all languages and on the same day. Somehow that would put a end to the Bihari attack – they go all over India and write the exams and get recruited. There was a strong Bihari mafia at work in Indian railways when lalu was the minister.

    If SBI regonal office in Mumbai is recruiting for Maharashtra branches, obviously they shd give preference to Marathis and peple from the state. Same goes for their recruitment in every other states. The local people should be encouraged to join them.
    Whats so shocking in this ?

  137. Can anyone please explain to me why Abu Azmi cannot speak even a word of Marathi even after living their for more thna 20 years ? Is he a politician of the hindi speaking people alone ? Maharashtra is a linguistic state for Marathi. Why ducnt he accept it and act accordingly ?

    Why didnt he know that India doesnt have a national language ?

    Why cant he and the other north indian politicans accept tht Hindi is one maong the 22 official languages of India ? Jus like English ?

    Why do these northies come up with outrageous demands like all official docuemnts in Mumbai corp. and in legislative assembly shd be made available in Hindi also ? Why do they insiste tht they wud take part in discussions in assembly in Hindi ?

    Why do these guys organise mass meetings and make provocative statements like “Hum idhar pe raj karenge” etc ?

    How long do you expect the poor Marathi guy to see all this and not react ?

  138. If you had vigor in your balls you should have changed the City’s name as Mumbai the day British left India. You people have taken long 50 years to change it. I was wondering if these people were afraid of British coming back to India and change the name again.
    Courtesy: Russell Peterson

  139. “Floods will wash away man” saideth Mr first to the second in godknows which century bc or ad.

    The point is that floods did wash away man in 2005 in Mumbai. Mumbai needed it. Good for Mumbai.

  140. friend Very informative post … Keep the nice job. We would love to see more|friend Your blog is so good I get lots of information…nice job!!|friend Great site!!! this information really helped me , I really appreciate it, I visit more often for updates, keep up the great work!|friend Great site!,this information really helped me , I really appreciate it. Thanks a lot for a bunch of good tips.

Have An Opinion? Type Away

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s