If any good has come out of 26/11 it has been the government’s announcement in principle to have a federal agency on terror (though I believe that similar ideas have been floated before and then consigned to the dustheap of public memory). Now the only thing that remains to be seen is how this federal agency is staffed, what kind of counter-terrorism equipment provided, how much political interference the agency has to put with and the extent to which the powers provided to this agency will be misused to settle personal scores and spy on political opponents.
The most important thing in the way forward is how India handles the issue of Pakistan and its role in 26/11. The wrong way to go about things is to get into a press battle with Pakistan by making public statements hinting at having conclusive proof of “foreign involvement” and leaving it at that. Unfortunately this is exactly what India has done. To be honest, India will always find it tough to win the international media war despite being the victim because 1) the Indian government does not invest in lobbying as much as Pakistan does. Which is why you will see Pakistani diplomats on CNN and not their Indian counterparts and 2) Indian expatriates, despite being a wealthy constituent of US society and a significant source of campaign cash for both parties, lack the patriotic enthusiasm of the Cuban or the Chinese diaspora when it comes to using their financial might for the homeland.
So the way forward for India is to take the evidence inside—-direct to Israel and to the US. The taking it to Israel cannot be public because it is politically incendiary (hurts the minorities). To India’s advantage, this time the terrorists didn’t just massacre Hindus (whom nobody in the world cares for) but they marked out Westerners and inflicted unspoken tortures on Jewish hostages.Which means Israel will definitely be interested. This means that they will exert pressure on the US to take action and there is no other country that has the US’s ears as much as Israel.
India’s case to Israel and the US has to be simple. Direct involvement of Pakistani authorities will be tough to prove and should not be attempted. What however can easily be established is 1) this attack has been caused by non-state actors based in Pakistan 2) these non-state actors are well known and yet operate with impunity in Pakistan. This implies 3) Pakistan is unable or unwilling to reign in these non-state actors. In this respect, the Pakistan administration is like the Taliban which was not ready to take any kind of action against Al Qaeda. If Pakistan wishes to demonstrate that it is not rogue (yeah right !) and it is sincere in its war on terror (double yeah right !), it has to hand over high-value terrorists like Daewood whose involvement in the events of 26/11 are suspected.
Now some of you may be saying why are we even bothered about the US. Well the sorry truth is that we have to. We are not Israel that we can unilaterally send two missiles thundering into POK and flatten terrorist camps and then get away with it internationally. For one, Pakistan is not Palestine which has zero strategic influence inside the US. In addition, not only does India have none of Israel’s international clout, it is in itself not as united as Israel is in terms of policy. Yes posturing India may do by moving troops around and possibly will. But that’s about it. Everybody knows this is all a bluff. Worse, the very exercise of India building up troops along the border would be used by Pakistan to exert reverse-pressure on America (” US uncle, US uncle we have to stop our bogus war on terror to deal with India’s troop buildup”) which in turn will lead to India being the one under pressure. This is why India should not even bother with the “going to war” rhetoric unless as a very final, very risky gambit if it feels the US is not interested in exerting any kind of pressure on Pakistan (which I do not think is going to happen). Militarily also, the effort that would be expended in launching a full-frontal strike would be better spent in shoring up our national defense which as we can all see is virtually non-existant.
Not that India should not take unilateral steps against Pakistan. But these steps have to be less symbolic (like severing of rail and air traffic) and more strategic. Like canceling bilateral cricket series which considering the fact that no team wants to tour Pakistan is going to bring their Board to their knees financially. Not that this gesture is going to give Zardari sleepless nights, but India has to take advantage of every opportunity of not cooperating with Pakistan if it refuses to cooperate with us and actions like severing cricket links will have tangible financial implications for Pakistan.
And finally an unrelated sidelight. Among the assorted horrors that we as a nation have been subject to over the past few days, one more was added as Ram Gopal Verma, Riteish Deshmukh (son of the Chief Minister) and Chief Minister were given a guided tour through the wreck of what used to be the Taj hotel. So let me get this straight. What is essentially still a crime scene has now been officially transformed into a “house of horrors” where VIPs can take their sons and influential filmi people for guided tours so that they may enjoy the vicarious chills that the glimpse of human misery gives some (the same macabre pleasure that people exhibit when they stop to watch trainwrecks). Combine this with the fact that deputy RR Patil channels Dilwale Dulhaniya Le Jayenge to say that small things happen in big places and one realizes, in addition to being monumentally incompetent, how bereft of any shred of humanity our politicians are.
The Greatbong Blog & Podcast 
As always, well written GB!
I was surprised to see the NSG commandos saying that they couldn’t see the terrorist in the dark. Wouldn’t one expect a country’s elite counter terrorist unit to have some sort of night vision equipment. Now, I am not belittling the heroic effort of the commandos and it is easy for me to sit in front of a computer than facing bullets. But the commandos looked really ill equipped, even in comparison to local SWAT teams in US. I feel that intelligence gathering is the first step and its imperative that a careful planning be done before mounting an assault. NSG commandos came in BEST buses to the hot zone! This tells you how inadequate the planning was.
I am glad that our forces ended the siege and I salute them for their bravery. My spite is with the government who ill equip our first line of defense!(read: ATS chief dies of gun shot wounds despite wearing ‘bulletproof’ vests.
If there is some positive, it is that this has happened in the most productive year of most governments, the fifth year.
And I think it is best if we do ‘something’ when the iron is hot, when all countries have pledged their support.
seriously RGV accompained deshkmukh? wheres that news
wonder how you get all this wisdom, Greatbong, while working there halfway across the world. If only our powers that be had similar sense and intent..
You mention you´re a wannabe politician- are you serious about it? If you stand for it, I would personally campaign for you…
arnab “spot on” … couple of months back to responded in one of the blogs here about developing a centralized NSA type agency to gather, process, channel, and coordinate all intelligence.
1) we had info about possible attacks, RDX, naval route in bits and pieces but nobody put the puzzle together to draw the full picture. We need a NSA type agency who will analyze all the informations from different agencies (RAW, IB, local police, common people, call monitoring) and will project a threat assessment. (as i am writing this i saw in timesofindia that PM is constituting some kind of agency)
2) terrorism is here to stay in India … so we need to have a fast reaction NSG commando forces with a clear doctrine of lethal response. elite commando teams need to be stationed in the 4 corners (del, mum, kol,chen) and a streamlined command and control should be set up… so that the NSG commando’s dont have to wait on the airport tarmac for 5 hrs while the aircraft being vacuumed…
3) going into Pakistan is not an option so any type of rhetoric is useless and counter productive … in an extreme situation india can think of suspending sea based communications to the ports of pakis.
4) citizens need to be informed and trained about their roles and how then can save themselves and minimize civilian life loss and hence defeat the main objective of the terrorists. media can play a very vital role. India can use Israel’s expertise on that….
sounak
White people (especially Israelis and Americans) being victims certainly seems a silver lining of the whole tragedy. If you recall the Daniel Pearl incident, one of the things which made it ‘important’ was his American Jewish background and the role it played in his brutal killing. I would be surprised if the honchos who planned this attack would not be brought to justice within a year or so even if India fails to get them. It might all happen in the background with American/Israeli detectives doing rounds of Pak, but happen it will.
Unfortunately that won’t solve India’s problems with Pak in the long run which is what our govt. should be really thinking hard about.
Great great piece.
Once again, Greatbong proves he is the vanguard Indian voice in the blogosphere.
My prediction:
1.The day is not far off when Indian and American forces capture Islamabad in a pincer grip and loosen the nukes from these barbarians.Wait and watch this will happen in an Obama administration.Feckless Bush and his neocon idiot friends have contributed in great dollops to this situation.A lot of the ‘fight Taliban’ money was expended in this operation.Of that I am a 100% sure.
2.If this event aint seminal; not sure what is.As I told my local Pakistani friends – “I know ur Govt may not be involved but this is a job we can assist with”.
PS:
I may be splitting hairs here but where was the King of the Manoos’s Raj Thackeray was when his dear city was being shellacked by neanderthal hordes? At an ‘undisclosed’ location? Among the brave dead (God bless them all , the nation owes them a debt of gratitude), I see prominent two names (both NSG commandos) – Gajanan Singh (a bhaiyya) and Sandeep Unnikrishnan (a Madrasi). Wonder why that did not raise some MNS hackles as yet.
I agree that an all out of War with Pakistan is not a solution. But I kind off agree with Vamsi.
Pakistan should be broken down again. It is very evident that Obama is going to go into Pakistan, India should not loose this opportunity and join in. India single handedly did that in 1972. Why can’t it do now that the US is on it’s side? And no, it won’t be a war against an average Pakistani. The people who will be benefited most if say for instance ISI is dismantled will be an average Pakistani.
And then they say about more cooperation! Yeah, indeed. I don’t remember a single instance where Pakistan has cooperated with India on the war on terror.
In my opinion, India should do another Military stand-off.. let Pak move its army from western borders – US might put pressure on India but India has to say a polite no – instead assist US in afghan front with more troops/ support … kind of appeasing the Afghans by showing Pak/Taliban as their common enemy… the stand-off would strain Pak gov further down both economically and stability wise.. then finally gather international pressure to split Pak in to two.. with Pashtun part prospering and Punjab part sinking…
All this sometimes makes one despair. The Indian union is just a 60 yr old idea. Is is working? How long will it last?
We have always been a collection of small states with strong regional and religious identities. Have the last 60 yrs built enough of a national identity to supercede those?
I sound gloomy to myself
I say cancel the Indus water treaty, let them die with thirst. I don’t know why Indians treat that treaty with so much respect, Pakistan will cease to exist if the waters from the three rivers which flow to them is stopped. Seriously, someone needs to grow some balls. Three things India needs to do.
1. Hang Afzal Guru.
2. Suspend Indus water treaty.
3. Boycott the Paki Team, not just boycott but go a step ahead and boycott anyone else who plays with them.
Arnab,
You are fantastic as usual. I love reading your blog.
The only good thing which has come out of this mess is that the people of middle and upper class India have finally awoken from their slumber. They were not bothered by the train blasts and they were not bothered by roadside blasts. Now that 5 stars hotels have been targeted it has been a wakeup call for all.
Jago India jago, in the upcoming elections boot all the clowns out. To all Indians , next time, you stand in the airport security line in India, please don’t grumble at why it’s taking so long. Next time, you pass a policewala, don’t pass snide remarks, he may be responsible for saving your life the next time something else happens.
To our NSG and Military Leaders, please flex your muscles and make sure our govt. gives you adequate compsensation for the awesome work you do.
And finally to all our public servants please be reminded we pay you to be there for us.
I felt very glad while watching news today. When Kerala CM and home minister went to Major Unnikrishnan’s house, major’s father called them stinking dogs and closed doors on their face. He did not allow them into his house. The sheepish smile on home minister’s face is a joy to wtach. Right thingto do. Bravo!
Attacking Pakistan is not a feasible option , we can talk about it while we are sitting comfortably in the USA and commenting on blogs , however people living in india would suffer.
Also lets not be under the assumption that Obama will destroy Pakistan, they need Pakistan to do their dirty work in Afghanistan.
The max America would do is probably some drone bombing along the Afghan Pak border.
If we spent about 10% of the 1,00,000 Crore or more that we spend on defence ,on our police and intelligence forces, i think we would be better off .Mumbai with a population of more than 1.5 crore has only 50,000 policemen
To Vamsi ,
About Raj Thackeray , please ask the same question to the people we elected as our leaders. People like Shivraj Patil,MMS,Vilas Rao, Laloo, Mulayam ,Chandra babu Naidu.
You can hold Raj accountable if he would have been the CM or home minister.
I think these people were busy supporting SIMI ,Afzal Guru, and asking for POTA to be repealed.
Soon they will be at the hospitals visiting the injured, i dont know how that will help , none of them is a doctor 🙂
this is it. how our government reacts now will probably define us as a nation for years to come. if we can hit them back where it hurts the most,we will probably regain some of the respect that we lost in this attack. on the other hand, if our government postpones action through active inaction, we will just become pakistans bitch. everyone will then try to own us. either way, something is going to happen.
@GB
“Indian expatriates, despite being a wealthy constituent of US society and a significant source of campaign cash for both parties, lack the patriotic enthusiasm of the Cuban or the Chinese diaspora when it comes to using their financial might for the homeland”
Yes, this is pretty much the case. Unfortunately, Indians bring all their differences and their divided agenda over to US and there is no united voice. So, I believe that the US Govt will face different kinds of pressures and compulsions – the same as any govt/political party in India does!
Still, if there is any group in US that has very little formal and professional representation, that is Hindus. The Hindu American Foundation (http://www.hafsite.org) is making significant progress in correcting this.
While i agree that people CNN and fox news have been frothing at the mouth about ineffiency of Indian troops unnecessarily, here are the things i found a little disturbing.
1) The terrorists had the complete floors plan of taj hotel, but the security didn’t. They were actually quoted saying, they didn’t have the floor plans.
2) Basic equipment like night goggles which i believe are available to local police departments in US were not available to Indian commandoes
3) The footage that they showed in Fox News about a commando firing into the nariman house. I could clearly see that they were very casual about the incident. The commando dude was leaning onto the wall and exposing himself completely and seemingly firing randomly.
4) They hardly seemed to gather any intelligence. The number of terrorists is estimated to be 11, I find that hard to believe considering they attacked ten locations almost simultaneously.I am guessing it should be at least around 20. Did they even make sure that some terrorists didn’t melt into the crowd in guise of hostages? They didn’t even seem to cordon off the area around the hotels.
5) Terrorists seemed to communicate mainly through Cell phones.Didn’t they have any sort of interceptors or atleast cell phone jammers in there that could prevent that?
6) All the terrorists seemed to come to mumbai a month back to shoot video and familiarize with the roads here. How come no intelligence caught that.
This is nothing to take away from the brave men who went in the path of fire to rescue people. I salute them with all my heart. But for a country that has been dealing with mainstream extremism for more than 25 years( First punjab and then kashmir), shouldn’t we have been better prepared? When do we actually become serious about this issue? and what’s the big hoopla about Terrorists have no religion? Hello?, yes they do and that’s called islam. Don’t take my word for it. Just count all the terrorists on the earth and count how many are islamic. I am not saying all muslims are terrorists but most of the terrorists are muslims and they are fighting a war against non-muslims. It’s as simple as that.
Great analysis GB. The point about Pakistan using this event to shift soldiers and international focus from its western to eastern border is brilliantly made. What is frightening is that this may all be a strategically planned attack just to achieve this change in focus. That rogue country has everything to gain with a move like that.
The other depressing fact is we still haven’t woken up as a nation. Look at these two incidents which made me wonder how soon the next terrorist strike will happen:
http://mindovermedicine.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/attack-on-india-is-it-asking-to-happen-again/
Venky
Surely you mean Indians, not Hindus. Terror attacks don’t only kill Hindus in India.
@Raoul
Actually, I think GB is right. The world does care when non-Hindus are massacred
@Raoul: Terror attacks kill everyone. However, it is the death of Hindus that doesn’t get international attention. Now let’s say (approx)
Indians= Muslims Sikhs Jews Christians Hindus
If Muslims be killed, then yes the whole Arab world cares. The AMA cares. Amnesty International cares. (Gujarat 2002 got international attention right?)
If Sikhs be killed, then yes comparatively less people care. But Amnesty International cares.
If Jews be killed, Israel cares.
If Christians be killed, the Catholic Church cares. By extension, many governments care.
If Hindus be killed, then who cares? Not a single Western government nor a single Middle Eastern government. Nepal? Well even they are Naxal. (When Hindu Pandits were “genocided” from Kashmir, noone in the world noticed. Hell even the rest of India didnt notice !)
Great work GB!!!
I hold the same fear that no one really knows how many of the terrorists were there in total. Many of them could have by now spread to the rest of India.
On the other end sadly though my gut feeling tells me that this issue is going to be debated for another week or two and then forgotten as in the past. The media which is now really pumped up and having this sort of adrenaline rush will soon calm down and then go back to their old business of slap-stick reporting.
To Quicksilver,
I understand your anger hence would just like to put it politely that what the terrorists do is not Islam. Having a muslim name does not make that a persons actions whether right or wrong “Islamic”.
Hence, this cannot be called Islamic terrorism it is Pakistani terrorism!!!!
Hi –
What are your thoughts on Indian immigrants living abroad doing something to keep their respective governments (US for example) as well as Indian Government aka politicians do something about the issue in a proactive way?
Padma
1) I was speaking with a Muslim friend of mine, she said that she does not mind strict laws as long as these attacks can be stopped and thereby blaming of the whole community does not happen.
2) Unless and until we train, equip and motivate our police no central agency can help. We need local intelligence and general sense of security which can be provided only by the police and not NSG.
3) Don’t underestimate the hopelessness of these youths ( if they are from India). What is driving these guys ?
lack of women, lack of alcohol, etc. ( I rule out education) ??
4) If we really want to give a answer to Pakistan, let us strive for 10 % GDP growth and doubling of exports.
Let us put hot oil on their wounds.
5) This is going to be a long drawn battle we need to have resolve and nerves of steel.
On a tangent note
Why no chemical weapon were used for example to faint the terrorist ?
In response to your last lines is it totally unnatural to be thinking “what if” in context of the failed 2001 Parliament Attacks ?
Also, I think the following blog attempts to project the average Pakistani’s perspective on the Mumbai siege:
http://emptiness-forever.blogspot.com/
What we lack is Intelligence, Intelligence , Intelligence.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mumbai-sitting-duck-for-terror-attacks/4814-3.html
p.s
On the recent religious converion issue i had asked my friends if people convert because of descrimination or been economically poor we should stop these descriminations and help theose poor hindus. Do you what was the response…no response they just kept quit, then gav excueses like they don’t have money etc. When we hindus don’t bother about our fellow brothers who else would care about us???
I am not 100% sure of this fact, but we all do know that all politicians/ MPs/ MLAs, even people who are indirectly involved with the govt, get Z and Z securities. A huge chunk of money goes in protecting these guys in government-sponsored cars and of course, a lot of our commandos spend their time in guarding these people.
It hurts that money is spent carelessly here, while we find that
“they had just two bullet proof jackets for 200 firemen” (Taken from http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mumbaiterrorstrike/Election_Story.aspx?ID=NEWEN20080074633&type=News)
For the people who guard us, they should at least have basic amenities. Compare this with what the fire department and the cop cars in the US have. If you call 911 once, there’ll be a swarm of cop cars, fire brigades with full equipment , even paramedics. Risking your life for your counrty/job is one thing- but this is more like going on a suicide mission for people who don’t care.
One good thing, and something that needs to be nurtured is, the political awareness , that is on a high at this point ( A disclaimer that I do realise that people might forget all this in 2 months and concentrate on more “important” affairs in their lives like IPL ) . But, the mounting pressure by the media and people in the city has at least given a hope that people will hold politicians responsible for their actions.
And, I think with the media, and the growing importance of bloggers, blogs should be a good instrument to spread awareness, ask important questions and question politicians in such times.
I personally think, that making our country more secure is the first step, and should get more priority than the diplomatic battle with Pakistan.
u realize that politicians have no performance appraisals and KRAs? Sivraj Patil resigned? wtf. How does it help? Should not he be on trail for genocide? more than a 1000 people have died under his watch and all he does is resign?
am waiting for the mud-slinging to start. the pakis must be having a good laugh….
Hey GB!!
The way you have evaluated all variables in this equation is commendable; you have dissected them with precision of a shrewd diplomat.
Yes, this attack has finally spurred political bosses into action & what’s that? Lame-ass Patil resigns, MK Narayanan resigns, & while i write this RR resigns. Some brownie points of political martyrdom & grabbing headlines thus. I fail to understand anything: how this could solve the problem, how PC is going to act, how we are going to ‘not succumb to terrorism’? What perturbs me more is people’s anger. WHY have they gone back to their old ways so easily? How can they forget this atrocity & swallow this? THAT apathy, THAT cow-like behavior will see us into the dark. Yes you said it right: no one cares for Hindus but even we Hindus dont care for ourselves. Why are not people hopping mad & like it happened in Manipur some years ago, bring the government to its knees? RR Patil, if he has said what he did (remembering DDLJ so nonchalantly), shouldn’t he face the public wrath in some way? Yesterday Times of India did huge research on the incident, but failed to (or avoided to) ask tough questions: how long will Indian Muslims take to get their act together & be unequivocal in protest & when i say protest i mean no local support. To say (i think shivraj Patil has already) that terror was not homegrown is sick! Some witnesses & victims have stated that a burqa-clad woman showed them all the places near Taj. And I am still perplexed how they could sneak so much ammo in these hotels without getting frisked!
Wake up, you non-violent, stupid,self-centered, gutless Indians!! And For christ-sake, stop these stupid candle-light vigils & black-cloth protests!!Enough of symbolic resolve!!
Here are two videos of Pakistan news coverage of the terror attacks.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4_qwtM5yY
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=Eij5o7XizIA&feature=related
To say these are disgusting would be the understatement of the century. Granted that perhaps this channel is perhaps the Paki version of India Tv and its ilk, even charitably assume these people who are commenting are just perhaps a fringe element.
But even if such opinions are representative of a decent minorty in Pakistan – since they openly say so on national tv, should we even waste our time talking to these people. Can any purpose possibly be served?
Oh & Yes!!
Waiting for these headlines:
1. Teesta setalvad will fight for that captured terrorist!
2. Amarsingh & Yechury will doubt any Islamic Jihadi hand in attack
3. Arundhati Roy will say “stop demonizing Pakistan” she has support of Farooq Abdullah.
4. Whatever happened to that Chief Rabblerouser in Mumbai, the one-who-cant-be-named? Where is he? With tail between his legs? Come out!
Here is a link to a blog that sort of echoed what i was thinking abt too .. i wanted to comment on this aspect but then held back thinking it wasnt the right time to raise this issue ..
Its abt the double standards of the elite … and also the media who simply keep focusing on how this elite group has been affected in the latest mumbai attacks.
What abt the lower middle class that died in CST ?
I wasnt also particularly impressed by Ratan Tata blasting the Govt. If he had a specific warning on Taj, what was he doing to protect it ?
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/gauravkalra/260/52957/angst-of-the-elite-the-new-antiterror-weapon.html
You rightly pointed out that the scope and the responsibilities for the federal agency is not yet clear. Besides, we havent heard anything on the anti terror law. That is needed.
WIth regards to Pakistan, again as you rightly mentioned, increased diplomacy will be more effective than plain rhetoric.
And well, the blame game has started. All the talk of rising over the party lines was crap. BJP did not attend the all party meet. These idiots will never learn.
India should not blame Pakistan. I am an Indian and a hindu. Instead of pointing fingers at them , we should realize our own mistakes. Ok, agreed terrorists came from Pakistan. We are saying why Pak govt. allowed them to operate there and use their soil ? But tell me how good is our government. 10 terrorists have entered our nation using our boats and the whole nation is sleeping. Where was our intelligence and security ? Why everything was so much delayed ?
On one hand we call Pak a failed nation and no economy. If they are failed nation, why do we expect them to control terror at home. If we are so advanced and so called next superpower along with china, why didn’t we show that superpower in last three days.
We should realize that people of Pakistan and India are not responsible for this. Politicians have crammed the answer of blaming Pakistan since years to hide their own blunders. It is 21st generation. The world is watching us. Everything is global. India shoud not show such stupidity by giving out blames on Pakistan. Where is our intelligence, investigation ? Even if they came from Pak, our security measures were nill.
Its like your neighboring kids are making noise. If you cant shut them up. Then atleast keep your doors shut or get noise-proof walls. Even if Pakistan is eliminated from the world map, there will be other enemies. We have to learn to take care of ourselves. It is very simple. Even in our real-life when people do well, others try to pull them down. Its upto you to keep yourself going. You don’t wait for others to stop pulling you down. Its high time all elite, youth and middle-class start exercising their vote.
I also don’t understand why muslims were treated badly in Gujarat riots. Why such things happen in India. Why do we give reasons to terrorists to attack. God save this country from Modi, Advani. Its their rath yatra and riots that we are paying so much today.
Just an observation that not much seems to be talked about in length:
We spend too much time reflecting on the past rather than what we can do now. The most worrying factor is that the numbers are not adding up and there are some more of those bastards at this very moment still roaming around in India. Where are they? Have they fled Bombay and/or have disappeared into the crowds in some other city? When and where are they going to strike again? Is the government doing enough to intercept all Thuraya SS7 signals (although it is against the laws of Telecom)? Are there any patriotic Indians working in Thuraya that are brave enough to supply the Indian Govt. with Call Detail Records of the related numbers. If some of Greatbong’s audience is in fact working in Thuraya in Dubai and has access to the CDRs, I can guide them on extracting the details without leaving traces and footprints. They need to pull out all ISUP commands to Mumbai for those affected days.
We as citizens need to be doing more of what we can and let’s not leave anything up to the politicians
@nancy
“I also don’t understand why muslims were treated badly in Gujarat riots. Why such things happen in India. Why do we give reasons to terrorists to attack. God save this country from Modi, Advani. Its their rath yatra and riots that we are paying so much today” says nancy
Providing justification for this kind of acts of violence shows very poor application of mind and complete lack of self-respect. “I deserved it” is a very common syndrome among victims of another type of crime that you are exhibiting
1. Who exactly defined when the grievance calendar should begin? Why should it begin with Rath Yatra or independence or partition of Bengal or whatever? Why don’t we go still further in history and look at all instances where tremendous amount of violence have been unleashed?
2. Every single group of people in this world has grievance of some sort. Everyone likes to feel that they could be better and someone else is suppressing them. Not everyone goes about shooting people as a solution.
3. If there is ONE SINGLE reason that muslims cannot use in the infamous “root-cause analysis” it is that violence was inflicted on them. A cursory glance of the world history will show what has been dispensed and what has been received
What if India nukes Pak to stone age in a blitz? After 9/11 no one saw anything wrong with the US reducing Afghanistan to shreds. What if India just helps Pakistan in dealing with those terrorist camps in their territory?
The very existence of Pakistan will cause problems forever for India.
We are extremely unlucky people. Extremely unlucky. When God is not on your side nothing will ever go right for you.
The fools that attacked our parliament were unsuccessful. Why couldn’t the present lot be sent then?
Reposting my comments….
#
How does it matter what the CNN says or NYT writes. It is not even about painting Pakis in a corner or proving something to the whole world.
It is about how we handle our security. How our systems respond to a crisis like this and how our leaders from the social, business, officialdom and politicos behave in the face of a crisis like this.
Here are a few points:
a) THE ARMED FORCES
We salute our armed forces only when they lay down their lives protecting us – a la Kargil. Otherwise we are busy debating if they get enough perks already and should they get 22 or 24 eggs a month in rations. Some time back the armed forces had to publicly voice their disappointment regarding salaries and I am not sure if this has resulted in any substantial increase in salary.
Millions are siphoned off in defense contracts but there is not enough to pay the poor soldier who fights. But once they save our lives by putting their lives in danger we offer them roses and chant slogans. Why is no body sc*****g the defence ministry babus who rule over the fighting men but were neither seen nor heard during this tamasha. How does the soldier counter poor equipment, poor facilities and red tape – by putting his body between the terrorists bullet and us.
b) THE MARTYRS
They are something like a diwali cracker – short life and a lot of bang. Their worth is for a days, milk as much as you can. It is good that people are so disgusted that they are hitting back.
Karker’s wife refused awards announced by Modi. Today morning I saw Unnikrishnans father shouting and driving away the CM and Home Minister of Kerala when they came to offer condolences. It was something to be seen. He shouted at the police and other officials accompanying them – “go away, go away… you dirty dogs, go away”. The man who kept his composure all along finally let off steam. I am glad he did. I am glad Mrs Karkare also did.
c) THE POLICE
Just because a few police officers died it does not mean that the police needs to be kept on a pedestal. Were the police not aware of Dawoods support infrastructure in the city? Or the smuggling of narcotics by sea? Or was it too lucrative to be busted?
We know cars are stolen everyday from all parts of the country. When one such vehicle was used in Gujarat blasts this year the police traced it back to Pune. The car thief was apprehended in no time. I am curious to know what action was taken when the owner filed the complaint. Or even better why didn’t they arrest and preempt car theft. It does not take rocket science to figure things out.
Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar acted rashly and their families and the entire ATS will pay the price. Three officers sitting in the same jeep, without protective gear in a war zone. Give me a break. What were they thinking. Why do you think during war times the command and control operation are at undisclosed locations in safe houses. Their actions were akin the chief of army staff shifting his office to Wagah border during a war with Pakistan. This was a huge blunder and the loss is going to be heavy for all of us.
d) OUR NEIGHBOURS
Proving a point against Pakistan is of no use. Some years down the line after our self imposed exile we will restart the peace process and cricketing relations. The actions of the Indian Government are immature. This pattern has been repeated a number of times in the past. It will be repeated in future as well. Today we are talking to Zardari, next time when we restart it may well be Kayani in the seat. Deja vu, isn’t it?
Last time we talked peace and Atal Bihari went to Lahore the Pak Army and ISI were busy capturing Kargil. Now that Zardari has repeatedly made positive utterances there is Mumbai attack. See the pattern?
Keep talking to them. There is no other way.
At the same time do not spare the State and Non State actors behind this act. We can not fight a conventional war with Pakistan. Too much to loose. A fraction of that money will go into chasing down the people behind this. I am sure they must be having soft spots, even if they are protected – families, business interests, whatever else one can go after.
I can appreciate the difficulty in going after Dawood since he is protected by ISI. Why aren’t LeT and ISI bases in Nepal and B’Desh taken out. Can the Government of India not mount any undercover operations in these countries? Or does it lack the will?
Sign a few death warrants, execute a couple and see how things change. Does anything change if CNN or Fox News speaks in our favour? We need to act and not get a large number of shoulders to cry on.
We are too large and juicy a duck to be sitting in one place.
d) POLITICOS
Enough has been said already. Mr Unnikrishnan is saying, Mrs Karkare is saying, bloggers are saying.
Someone tell me what is the use of voting?
Shivraj Patil lost the election from Latur, was nominated to the Rajya Sabha and became our Home Minister. What is the use of voting?
… contd.
GB,
Food for thought indeed…
When will the Hindus realise the point is the moot question?
On the sidelines was this news
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Krishnadas rescued&artid=8Ry4YKwFfFs=&SectionID=1ZkF/jmWuSA=&MainSectionID=1ZkF/jmWuSA=&SEO=Krishnadas,terror&SectionName=X7s7i|xOZ5Y=
What is a CPIM MP doing in the Taj Hotel?
A ‘Proletarian Dinner Perhaps’!!!
Repost… contd…
d) POLITICOS
Enough has been said already. Mr Unnikrishnan is saying, Mrs Karkare is saying, bloggers are saying.
Someone tell me what is the use of voting?
Shivraj Patil lost the election from Latur, was nominated to the Rajya Sabha and became our Home Minister. What is the use of voting?
… contd.
Rahul Gandhi was partying on Friday night. Priyanka says if Indira Gandhi was alive she would shown the world how to handle such an operation. Sure. We all remember Blue Star, don’t we? At least all those who are old enough do. I was in Amritsar, during my summer vacations, when the operation was launched. It was badly planned and executed. Pathetic.
Sonia decides the fate of every minister. She kept Shivraj in and she forced him out. It is high time we understand that she is not ‘Gods gift to mankind’ or India. She is not an able administrator nor does she make very informed decisions. She does not have a view on anything other than becoming fairy Godmother to one and all (NREGA).Because she talks less does not mean she is intelligent. How can she run our country? I am tearing my hair out in frustration.
LK Advani is another joker. He should be put under the care of ‘make a wish foundation’. I think Manmohan should let him be PM for a day, fulfill his ambition and retire him for good. Rudy, Ravi Shankar Prasad, Sushma Aunty, Modi the killer, Aruns (Shourie and Jetley) and a few others. Lovely crowd I must say.
Where is the choice? Why should I vote?
@AlphaQ
” Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar acted rashly and their families and the entire ATS will pay the price. Three officers sitting in the same jeep, without protective gear in a war zone. Give me a break. ”
Dont speak with Wisdom in Hindsight … you only knew it on Thursday that this was a war zone.
Not on Wednesday night. So do not go arnd blaming these officers ….. The initial reports on Wednesday actually said there is a gang war on in Colaba .. No one anticipated the scale of the attack.
Give us a break … Let the Martyrs rest in peace …
While the point taken, that so many senior officers shudnt be travelling together in the same vehicle. (I think thats how it is atleast in the Defence Forces).
But you never know what situation these ppl were in on that moment. And these 3 officers werent even killed in an encounter. It was an Ambush.
A number of politicians would want the terror camps around our neighbourhood to continue and Dawood kept alive. It enables them to exist that much longer by constantly playing on the national security bogey. Bcos if the people’s attention is not diverted, they might begin to think abt real issues like roti kapda aur makaan. And which politician wants to waste his time worrying abt such mundane matters or answering questions on the crores he has gulped down via fodder scams or coffin scams.
A number of bureaucrats would also want such a situation to exist. How else will they and their political baaps siphon away crores and crores that is sanctioned to be spent on defence related matters.
And the way the Indian social system works, i wont be surprised if there are politicians silently partying and thanking god that the mumbai incident happened, bcos their chances of winning the next elections have improved.
And some police officers silently rejoicing bcos with the meritocratic officers all dead, they can now get promoted.
Yeah, i am at the limit of cynicism right now ….
@RR and everyone else..
Let me clarify this is not to insult the memory of the officers. I clearly say that all of us suffer because of this act. It is not as if running them down gives me great pleasure. They have all been spoken of as intelligent and brave men.
I still feel that it was a blunder and that is the operative word here. It is also true that it has brought grief and problems for their families, their department and by extension for all of us. I am not safer because of the distance.
It is easy to be wise in hindsight. I am not even trying to do that. I am hurt. They were not known to me, they were not even policing my city, but I am deeply hurt. I am sorry if the message came across any other way.
Sad or happy lessons must be learnt and taught to future generations who will pass out from our police training academies.
Things have started to move it seems.
Sample this – http://www.indianexpress.com/news/centre-clears-nsg-for-six-cities/392506/
We need much much more than this.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=tQT9cgqdJ6U
A paki defense “Analyst” explaining why Pakistan should send an “armoured Brigade” instead of the ISI chief “unka dimaagh theek karne ko”.
The smart ass, also explains how the whole attack is a campaign by the Hindu Fascists who have control over the nuclear weapons (talk about ulta serial-pickpocket Kotwal ko daantey)…
On the whole an extremely entertaining talk show, with a worked up guy in a pseudo turban & beard, and an english speaking Paki Aunty… Reminds one of the “sand in the Vagi…. Episode” on South Park”
A clear and continuing lack of will
Arun Shourie First Published : 01 Jan 2009 11:12:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 01 Dec 2008 11:54:31 AM ISTThe terrorist outrage in Mumbai draws attention to serious shortcomings in security, but the irony is that these weaknesses were well known to the authorities who had warned of the problems many times and in various forums. You can’t have a first-rate commando force and a third rate magistracy. You can’t have defence and intelligence personnel who will nab terrorists and courts that will let them off, or, better still, enable them to live off the treasury as state guests for years. And that excellence must reach down
Our coastal areas are coming under increased threat from terrorist groups, which have decided to use the sea route to infiltrate into India. They also plan to induct arms and ammunition through the sea routes” that is Shivraj Patil addressing the DirectorsGeneral and Inspectors-General of Police in November 2006. “We understand they (the terrorists) have been collecting information regarding location of various refineries on or near the Indian coastline… Some Lashkare-Taiba (LeT) operatives are also being trained specifically for sabotage of oil installations. There are plans to occupy some uninhabited islands off the country’s coastline to use them as bases for launching operations on the Indian coast…” That was the ever-alert home minister in November 2006. Defence minister A K Antony has been no less alert. On March 8, 2007, he was asked in the Lok Sabha, “Whether the intelligence agencies have warned about the possibility of terrorists trying to infiltrate through the sea route or trying to target our offshore installations?” He answered, “Yes, Sir. There are reports about terrorists of various tanzeems being imparted training and likelihood of their infiltration through sea routes…” He was asked, “Whether maritime terrorism, gun-running, drug-trafficking and piracy are major threats that India is facing from the sea borders of the country?” His answer? “Yes, Sir.” On May 9, 2007, the home minister was asked in the Rajya Sabha, “Whether it is a fact that there are strong apprehensions of terrorist threats to the country through the sea route?” “As per available reports,” he answered, “Pak based terrorist groups, particularly LeT, have been exploring possibilities of induction of manpower and terrorist hardware through the sea route…” On December 8, 2007, the National Security Adviser, M K Narayanan, was educating the world at the 4th Regional Security Summit organised by the International Institute of Strategic Studies, the Manama Dialogue.
“According to our intelligence reports,” he confided to the assembled Sheikhs and experts, “there are now certain new schools that are now being established on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, which now specialise in the training of an international brigade of terrorists to fight in many climes. According to our information, recruits from 14 to 15 countries have been identified as amongst the trainees there… Training has become extremely rigorous it is almost frightening in nature… Studies are being carried out about important targets, with regard to vulnerability, accessibility, poor security, absence of proper counter-terrorism measures, etc. The sea route, in particular, is becoming the chosen route for carrying out many attacks, even on land. References to this are to be found replete in current terrorist literature.
“Given India’s experience in dealing with terrorism,” he added, “I would like to therefore sound a note of warning, that there is no scope for complacency…” On March 11, 2008, A K Antony addressed the “International Maritime Search and Rescue Conference,” in Delhi. He warned the delegates of “dangers of terror attacks from the sea in the region”. In the course of his address, Antony admitted that the Coast Guard faces a shortage of manpower as well as hardware.
But “necessary steps are being taken to strengthen the search and rescue infrastructure of the Indian Coast Guard…” On November 13, 2008, just a fort On November 13, 2008, just a fortnight before the assaults at Mumbai, Manmohan Singh warned the BIMSTEC summit, “Terrorism and threats from the sea continue to challenge the authority of the State…” Danger of infiltration By now it was time for Shivraj Patil to address yet another meeting of the DGs and IGs of Police. Thus, on November 22, 2008, that is literally on the eve of the attacks in Mumbai, he told the police chiefs, “To control terrorism in the hinterland, we have to see that infiltration of terrorists from other countries does not take place through the sea routes and through the borders between India and friendly countries. The coastlines also have to be guarded through Navy, Coast Guard and coastal police.
“The states’ Special Branches and the CID should identify the persons forming part of the sleeper cells and lodging in cities and towns and studying in educational institutions and working in industries and professions…” Four days later, the terrorists, using the exact same sea route, do the exact same thing that these worthies have been warning others about. Are they consultants to government or ones running the government? Is their job to issue warnings to others or to see that the warnings are acted upon?
Warning given, the job is done But that is the fate of warnings in this system. After all, that very sea route was used to smuggle explosives for the blasts across Bombay in 1993. Were those blasts not warning enough?
Seven years later in 2000 the warning and lesson were made explicit yet again. Four Task Forces were set up in the wake of the Kargil War. The one on border management warned, “The long coastline with its inadequate policing makes it easy to land arms and explosives at isolated spots on the coast.” It recalled that this is exactly how explosives were smuggled into Maharashtra in 1993.
“The situation, if anything, has worsened over the years with the activities of the ISI becoming more widespread along the coast particularly by extension into the coast of Kerala… Such coastal areas must be particularly kept under surveillance.” There is space here to cite just one example. The Task Force pointed out that the ISI had started using the Lakshadweep archipelago as a major staging point for smuggling arms and per sonnel into India. The agency used smugglers and their networks like Dawood Ibrahim and his tentacles and their routes for doing so. These dons and their networks were given shelter and support in return for helping the agency with its operations against India.
Now, Lakshadweep has 36 islands. Ten of these are inhabited. Talking of one of these islands Suheli the Task Force pointed out that, sea vessels of smugglers apart, “There have been instances of twin rotor helicopters (of the kind used by militaries) landing at Suheli Island and spotting of unidentified helicopters flying in the waters around the islands…” And what were we doing? “Intelligence gathering in the islands,” the Task Force recorded, “is carried out by one Inspector, one Sub-Inspector, one Head Constable and three Constables working in the Special Branch at Kavaratti” just one of the 36 islands. “Intelligence gathering in all other islands is carried out by one Head Constable/Constable who reports to the OIC (the Officer in Charge) of the police station who in turn passes it on to the Inspector (Special Branch) at Kavaratti.” Please read that again: 36 islands; one Inspector, one Sub Inspector, one Head Constable and three Constables on the main island; and one Head Constable/Constable for all the remaining 35 islands… Drifting with the tide What has happened since, what is the position today, I ask the person who has held the highest posts in intelligence. Exactly what it was then, he says, with one difference. With the up gradation of all posts, the Inspector (Special Branch) at Kavaratti is now designated not as Officer in Charge, but as Joint Assistant Director or Deputy Central Intelligence Officer depending on his cadre… As for the other recommendations patrolling, setting up sensors, and a host of others things are as they were.
And we are surprised! I can multiply such examples by the score at no notice at all. Recalling just one thing will be sufficient.
When, during a debate on national security in the Rajya Sabha, I began citing such passages from the report of this Task Force, shouts went up from the Congress, “But this is a secret report… How has he got it?… How is he citing it?…” Shivraj Patil remained his composed self, eventually chiding me with the sagacity which even terrorists have by now come to associate with him.
Things to do First, act on recommendations that are made by committees you set up.
Second, that will not happen unless we send a better type into legislatures and, thence, to governments. When we select leaders who treat the police as their private army; when we select leaders for whom investigating agencies are instruments to fix rivals or let off allies, don’t expect the police and agencies to suddenly turn around and forestall terrorists.
Third, remember that little can be achieved unless every aspect of governance is brought up to par. You can’t have a first-rate commando force and a third rate magistracy . You can’t have defence and intelligence personnel who will nab terrorists and courts that will let them off, or, better still, enable them to live off the treasury as state guests for years. And that excellence must reach down to that “Head Constable/Constable” level. When K P S Gill reconquered Punjab for the country, he did so by strengthening and invigorating the local thana.
Fourth, that the State of India is weak and has been weakened and is being weakened by the day is only one part of the explanation. A weakened and confused society explains as much and the responsibility lies as much with those who have dissipated national resolve, who have made nationalism a dirty word. That set includes the media as much as politicians. Sixty-seventy thousand killed by terrorism and we are still debating whether we should have a federal investigating agency. Sixty-seventy thousand killed by terrorists and we are still debating whether we should have a special law to bring them to book.
Of course, we must have the agency . Of course, we must have the sternest law in the world. But having the law is not enough. We must enforce it. One side of the picture is that, to pander to its vote bank among Muslims, the government has been withholding sanction to the law passed by the Gujarat Assembly even though that law is the exact replica of the law that its own party’s government has passed in adjacent Maharashtra.
The other side is that, as the Maharashtra government does not use the law it has, those who will give shelter and support to terrorists give them with abandon you just have to think of the quantum of weapons that the terrorists brought in; the detailed local knowledge they had of the spot at which to land their boats, of the location of the building in which Jews and Israelis were staying, of the insides of the hotels, to see that they could not have executed their plans without the most extensive local help, help given over months.
And enforcing the law means carrying out sentences that the law provides. The Parliament of India is attacked, guards are killed; one of the killers is tried and convicted, the sentence is confirmed by the Supreme Court, and, eight years after the assault, his “papers are still being processed,” indeed there are signature campaigns against executing the sentence. Given these circumstances, the best thing for a terrorist would be to succeed in his mission, and then get caught. He will get the best lawyers to defend him. He will get judges who are ever so solicitous about his rights, ever so finicky about procedures. And, of course, he will get activists to shoot off press statements on his behalf. Lawyers better, judges more solicitous, activists more articulate and better networked than any in his own country .
But for any of this to happen, the society has to be clear in its mind. This is, it has for 20 years been, war. It can be won only by overwhelming the adversary – not by running after the terrorist, as K P S Gill says, but by outrunning him, indeed by over-running him. Not an eye for an eye. For an eye, both eyes. Not a tooth for a tooth. For a tooth, the whole jaw. Human rights? Yes, we will respect the human rights of the terrorists and their sponsors and their local supporters to the extent that they respect the human rights of our people. Time to wake up Finally, have a clear realisation of the condition of the society and State of Pakistan. Unless you come across evidence that the nature of the State and society of Pakistan has changed, it is idiotic to put faith in the profession of this ruler or that. Remember Musharraf ’s “Main naya dil leyke aayaa hun”? Taliban and Al Qaeda are not the cause of the state of Pakistan. They are the result of the Talibanisation of Pakistani society and state.
Where do you think, and by whom do you think are the teachers instructed to ensure that students from Class 1 onwards “recognise the importance of jihad”; to ensure that they “must be aware of the blessings of jihad”; to ensure that they “create yearning for jihad in his heart”; to ensure that they develop “love and aspiration for jihad, tabligh, shahadat, sacrifice, ghazi, shaheed”? Where do you think, and by whom are teachers instructed to ensure that students from kindergarten onwards learn to “make speeches on jihad and shahadat”, and are “judged on their spirit while making speeches on jihad”?
Do you think these are instructions issued by the Islamic fundamentalists to maulvis in madrasas? They are instructions given by the government of Pakistan through official circulars to principals and teachers in government schools of Pakistan.
You didn’t know that? Exactly . That is a large part of the problem. You will find reams of these and other facts in the 2002 report edited by Pakistani academics, A H Nayyar and Ahmed Salim, and published by the Sustainable Development Institute, Islamabad, The Subtle Subversion: The state of curricula and textbooks in Pakistan, Urdu, English, Social Studies and Civics.
Get on to the Internet, download and read the report from http://www.sdpi.org. Here is a part of the problem that you can solve by yourself.
As for the rest of the problem, I suppose we must continue to rely on Shivraj Patil. And on him who is to the government what Shivraj Patil is to the home ministry, that is, the Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh.
Hey GreatBong, check this out unless u havent already:http://www.hotklix.com/?ref=content/152704
Very frankly at this stage I couldn’t be bothered if the attackers were from Pakistan, Bangladesh or Saudi Arabia. What concerns me most is how lax India has become when it comes to internal security. The only solution I can think of at this juncture is to strip all the politicians of any kind of security cover Z grade or any other grade. Let they be exposed to the same risks ordinary citizens are exposed to only then will our security improve.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Rice_to_visit_India_to_manage_response_towards_Pak/articleshow/3779264.cms
We have idiots in politics only because we have given our government so much power over our lives. If the role of government was limited to providing us security and justice, why would thugs & crooks enter politics.
You can read more at http://www.rameshsrivats.net/2008/12/so-what-do-we-do-about-our-government_01.html
I was reading in the newspaper today that apparantly the Taj and Oberoi’s insurance against terror attacks does not cover damage done by private or state security forces…Me thinks Ratan Tata should charge for a guided tour of the Taj instead of letting politicians and filmi people looking around for free…
Interesting read. A candid view.
http://www.ict.org.il/NewsCommentaries/Commentaries/tabid/69/Articlsid/534/currentpage/1/Default.aspx
@Manu & Uday: watching those clips i remembered a bengali saying which when translated goes something like this:
Sieve tells a needle that the latter has a hole in its back.
Hunain writes:
“hence would just like to put it politely that what the terrorists do is not Islam. Having a muslim name does not make that a persons actions whether right or wrong “Islamic”.
Hence, this cannot be called Islamic terrorism it is Pakistani terrorism!!!!”
Nice try, Hunain bhai. If, as you say, this is simply Pakistani terrorism and not XXX terrorism, then how do you define the 12,000+ Jihadi attacks in the past 7 years in over 100 countries?
Statistics and Data are available here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
I used to believe “moderate” apologists like you before, but not anymore. My eyes have been opened by the carnage in Mumbai. You cannot deceive me anymore with your sweet lies. I refuse to live in denial about reality, from this point onwards.
I wouldn’t have mentioned this had you not brought up the above topic. In order to follow GB’s comment policy, I will try to be as discreet as possible, without offending anyone.
I have observed that the strategy of the so-called “Moderates” is very simple:
– The so-called “Extremists” slaughter Hindus, Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Atheists explicitly and openly in the name of [Their God], as ordained by [a Certain Book].
The emails sent by the Deccan Mujahideen, Indian Mujahideen are explicit that these killings are in the name of [Their God]. So why deny it?
– So-called “Moderates” like you provide a “Trojan Horse” for their “Extremist co-religionists”, by immediately pre-empting any discussion of the real roots of terrorism in [a Certain Belief System] and try to obfuscate Hindus by preaching: “XXX is a Religion of Peace. XXX is a Religion of Peace.”
Who should I believe – The former who openly state why and who they are doing it for? Or the latter, who likes to cover for them?
Its a Win-Win situation for XXX, either way.
Save your preaching for your “Extremist” Co-religionists. We Non-Believers have no need for it.
GB, 2 more examples of insensitivity:
1) VS Achutanandan, the Commie Bastard CM of Kerala, has the cheek to insult Sandeep Unnikrishnan’s dad by calling him a dog (and the Malayalam word has a worse connotation) on being rubuffed in a vain attempt to win political mileage by offering some “Crocodile Tears”
2) MA Naqvi displays his Taliban (or is it RSS, same difference) mindset by criticising urban women who wear lipstick and hold candle light vigils to protest against political inaction.
RR Patil and Deshfuck seem to have lost their jobs – when will VSA
‘So the way forward for India is to take the evidence inside—-direct to Israel and to the US. The taking it to Israel cannot be public because it is politically incendiary (hurts the minorities).’
Dear Greatbong,
Although I disagree with Mahatma Gandhi on several grounds, I always remember his saying ‘be willing to take a blow, several blows, to show that you’ll not strike back, NOR WILL YOU BE TURNED ASIDE’.’
If the government of India believes that India should work with Israel in this matter and if it think is the right thing to do then it should proclaim it. Not do it covertly just for the sake of political correctness to keep the minorities happy. That is minority appeasement and that is exactly what is called pseudo – secularism.
I think there is a clear case for Pakistan’s complicity in the entire incident and there is nothing wrong in issuing a “prosecute or extradite” dicta against Pakistan with respect to known LET activists as well as mafia like Dawood presently in Pakistan. The demand should be time-bound. Failing Pakistani action, India should consider approaching the International Court of Justice for reparatations from Pakistan for the damage caused to India (under international law, Pakistan is responsible for non-state actors operating in its territory and if it fails to prosecute criminal acts committed by such non-state actors, even if they are actually carried out in a different country, they are liable under law). India should also insist that any prosecution should be overviewed by a United Nations committee which should have representatives from Israel and Great Britain to ensure that the prosecution is not a sham. Whilst this may not finally fructify it would improve India’s stature in terms of both complying with international law as well as appearing strong and committed to its own rights as a nation. It would also be better than a military faceoff, which is likely to be even less effective (given that there is virtually no chance of an open conflict, and contrary to some day dreams cited above, absolutely no possibility of US assistance in escalation of hostilities. If the Obama administration is wlling to talk to Iran, there is no way they are going to assist India against their hostoric ally, Pakistan).
Pending the above, I think India can justifiably suspend all treaty obligations with Pakistan, suspend the High Commissioner, and sever diplomatic. All bilateral cooperations and CBMs, including the cricket series, should be indefinitely postponed. The Indian government should also instruct that all contractual obligations with Pakistani nationals, including their IPL and ICL contracts be suspended till resolution of the issues. A lot of Pakistani nationals, including commentators and other cricketers, depend on India for their livelihood and its time to shake them up a little bit.
Of course, the above would require evidence (no circumstantial but what would hold in a court of law) linking the attacks to Pakistani nationals, and Indian law enforcement agencies would have to ensure that evidence is clearly laid out, documented and reported to allow effective action.
I also hope that someone in our intelligence services should have the courage and the determination to launch a “wrath of god” type of operation, where key LET and mafia elements involved in the massacare are identified and assasinated. In this I am sure at least the Mossad (which would take the torture and deah of Jewish nationals very seriously) can be of immense assitance. I heard somewhere that the MARCOS (marine commandoes) are the toughest and best fighting unit in the world (at least in terms of training, if not technology)… better than the SAS or the Delta Force or the Green Barets. So its time we fight fire with fire and send them to take out key terrorist players outside India (I am still too liberal to suggest extra-judicial killings inside India). I hope some of the foreign policy decision makers is reading this.
From a domestic point of view, we do need special weapons and tactics team in every major city (its not just the metros but several other cities where the terror threat is very real). I read that only AP (the famed greyhounds) have police commandoes and that is very very scary.
Above all, we need political will and ability to deal with this decisively… much as i have George Bush, I remember his “you are either with us or against us” speech which came within hours of the 9/11 strikes… out prime minister came on air after almost 36 hours and gave a performance of such ineptness that if I were LET, I would have wept with joy. The BJP is no better. The saddest thing about this entire incident is the shameless attempts by the politicians to gain mileage out of this. This time however, they did not anticipate the public anger they have unleashed and they have suffered.
Just read some of the old comments about Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar. They were ambushed in their car and killed. Reports (on the basis of the statements of the lone constable in that car who survived) say that they walked out of a bush and started firing and killed the three policemen. Reports also say that they killed Salaskar (the encounter specialist and presumably the best combatant of the three) first and Karkare (who was as much a diplomat as police chief, and is unlikely to have seen too much action recently) last. I find is very hard to believe that in an operation as meticulously planned as this, the terrorists just chanced upon a jeep with Mumbai Police’s most important officers and shot them dead. The question then is, who revealed their location? To me it seems that there was necessarily someone within the ATS, a traitor who revealed their position to the terrorists. I hope the Mumbai police is investigating this properly.
I completely agree with mumbaikar’s response above to Hunain. The statement that “people who do evil x/y/z are not muslims” means nothing and does not change any ground reality.
It simply does not matter what you believe as true Islam; it only matters what the guy with the gun believes!
The question to Hunain and folks who provide the excuse above is “OK. So, what exactly are you doing to make sure that the “true islam” is protected from the bad name these guys give it?”
For example, did you and your friend write to GoI to carry out the punishment that the court awarded to Afzal Guru for the Parliament attachs and Supreme Court confirmed.
As Indians, we want more of Naib Imam Maulana Khalid Rasheed
See http://ibnlive.in.com/news/terror-has-no-religion-do-not-go-soft-muslim-cleric/79474-3.html
If Muslims agitate the same way for handing out punishments to Islamic terrorists who commit crimes in India, the same way they agitated for various other non-Indian causes like Khilafat, Saddam Hussein etc. then the mind of the political class will change.
As of now, the view of the common man is this:
Terror may have no religion, but one religion does seem to have a lot of terror in it
@ Greatbong
You cheapened the entire thing by bring it down to a Hindu death issue.
About Hindu-Muslim-Christian issues and controversies, I am sure you know things are not as simple as that.
If it really is a matter of saving Hindus from terrorism, perhaps you could post a note to all non-Hindus telling them not to bother.
As far as the rest is concerned, I agree.
But in the end, we are never going to wipe out anti-India terrorism. There would be always a few left who can still strike us.
Why – a terrorist each could walk into Mumbai VT station daily with a country-made gun and shoot us commuters 5 each daily. You don’t need Pakistan’s help for that.
We in India are now facing a situation which calls for first-world efficiency in a third-world setting. That requires a top-to-bottom change in everything.
Mumbai cannot be secured because of its population density. Baggage cannot be checked, metal detectors cannot be used (they tried it, crowds are too much to step peacefully one by one though a metal detector.)
We need to convert our cities into first-world cities with lesser loads on infrastructure and reduce population density. Without that, we can die like dogs anywhere in Mumbai for sure.
We need better policing, and more policing. We need smart cops, and lots of them. They need better training, and more pay. We need better intelligence, arms training, specialised squads, a central agency, less political interference, and more sensitised police so they don’t inadvertantly lead to more anger.
We need a sea change and that’s gonna cost a lot. Ever heard any Indian politician present his plans – every dotcom failure has better planning going on behind them probably. Forget all that – do we even have the money?
@ Sudhakar
You have a point. But it is a double-edged sword. Like the guy with the gun who is Muslim, there is the guy with the sword who I know who is a Hindu. And there would doubtless be someone with some weapon from my own community whom you know too.
As far as I see, this is the first time I have seen people of Mumbai angry (not bouncing back, or just bouncing in place) irrespective of religion or language or class. Please lets hold it for a little while, and if it does down we can all get back to nastiness in a little while. Just give it some time.
I never visited Ramu’s blog, but this time I made a special exception to write a very colorful letter expressing my disgust. I request other who share the horror to do the same. It probably wont be published but he will get the message..
Unfortunately the looser CM’s son does not blog it seems…wht was he thinking..was it ‘bring your kids to office day’ ..son of a bitch…
yup..got ur point..i did go overboard…good moderator u r
I am no expert, but I was wondering if we should go for a:
1. National Security agency equipped with latest technology and gear.
2. They should comprise of specially trained commandos and detectives.
3. They should have stations in the 4 metros with sub-stations in Bangalore, Hyderabad, Srinagar and Guwahati.
4. They should be answerable only to the PM and a minister for Internal security (with independent charge).
5. They should have unlimited access to all police, RAW and army databases. They should have authorization to use any state/central police facilities and personnel as and when they deem necessary. They need not be subject to bureaucratic delays in cross-state operations.
6. They should be adequately paid and their promotions and increments should be subject to performance only.
7. The detectives should keep as low a profile as possible. They could have an official media rep to handle the media.
We can start it off by recruiting from amoung the police and other security agencies in the country. in due course of time we should formulate a strategy to recruit agents and commandos for this agency.
Just to correct one of the statements in a comment above, the difference between the congress and the bjp is not that one is just incompetent and corrupt while the other is incompetent, corrupt and communal, the biggest difference is that the congress is into minority appeasement and while the bjp is pro hindu.
Regarding another comment where the person mentioned that he voted for the congress because he detested advani’s making a speech on this issue, this is perverted logic at its worst. Instead of venting his anger on the congress government whose soft approach towards terror and vote bank politics have created a situation where terrorists strike at will, almost every month, he is angry at the person who pointed it out.
At the end of it all, we would be deluding ourselves if we still denied that these attacks were anything other than an attack by religiously motivated fanatics on hindu’s. That a hindu country’s economy would also be affected by a strike of such magnitude was a plus for the fanatics. And if the nefarious designs of these fanatics can be thwarted by narendra modi, i support him wholeheartedly, without giving a damn about the pseudo secularists.
Sudhakar,
“Terror may have no religion, but one religion does seem to have a lot of terror in it”.
That was a very apt statement.
@mumbaikar: You are right. We moderate Muslims have allowed these evil extremists to hijack our religion & we have done next to nothing. We have condemned it because we thought that was enough; that it would be completely obvious to anyone who was looking that there is plenty of terrorism out there (Naxalite, LTTE, IRA, ETA, FARC….etc etc) that is not Muslim.
And now we find ourselves in a situation where we are helpless & we do not know what to do. If we condemn the terrorists we are faking it, putting a mask on it, who knows what. If we don’t then we’re complicit. If Islam had a centralized authority like Catholicism we could excommunicate them but we don’t. I personally don’t know any terrorists. If I did I would turn them in to the police. But I don’t. The religion I was taught as a child was not violent. So I am as much at a loss as you are to explain what I see.
Obviously our condemnation is not enough. But I don’t know what is. All these people who criticize moderate Muslims for not stopping terrorism never seem to have any ideas as to what exactly moderate Muslims should do to stop it. I wish they did. I would listen to any ideas, from anywhere, because to me this is a double wound. Not only do I have to see innocent people die (which we are all forced to see); to see my beloved hometown turned into a war zone (which many of us have seen); but I have to see the religion I grew up with & love & follow to this day, the religion that provides me with so much spiritual support & comfort, warped & misused in the name of absolute evil. And I feel completely helpless.
So what should I & the remaining 99.9% of the world’s Muslim community that hates terrorism do? What are our options?
@Unknown Indian
Let’s not insult dogs by talking of the Kerala CM.
Sandeep’s dad would rather have allowed a dog to his house, than the CM.
@Wafa
well…i thought yesterday deeply @ the state (rather plight) of muslims like you. I really wish there was one, responsible leader (or party) who could have represented Muslims in India. While BJP (& many extremist forces) demonize them unnecessarily, Congress uses them as a votebank without actually benefitting them. Sample this: Sachar committee recommends all sops for that community. I say for almost 50 years congress was in power, what did it do for muslims? Appeasement (& that too of hardened a**hole-y clerics)in Shah Bano case?!
The funny thing is: What a simple, average Muslim guy/family want? A simple life with all amenities. And isnt that precisely what his Hindu counterpart want too? And have we got that? zilch. Politicians always make merry in the process.
@KP.
Why do you want any party to provide Muslims with any special sops ? Why do you expect the Congress or any party to anything special for the Muslims ?
I have never really understood this attitude… Why, are the Muslims so incompetent?
Are the Sikhs given any sops ? Are Christians given any sops ? They seem to be doing bloody well for themselves ….
Until you stop expecting this special treatment, you are always going to feel cheated by the politicians and maybe the rest of the society. Naturally the blame will tend to go on the Majority community … so please get out of this attitude. Stop looking at yourselves as victims.
On the other point, you are so right … there is no difference in what a simple average Muslim family wants vis a vis what a simple average Hindu family wants.
The same for a simple average Christian family in the US or UK or the simple average Jew family in Israel….
Someone who’s knowledgeable enough: please comment on this
http://frontierindia.net/causes-and-solution-to-islamic-terror-in-india
btw the solution he has given makes sense!
Interesting
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Sonia’s presence in Delhi is costing India dearly&artid=LNnjswClsuc=&SectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo=&MainSectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo=&SEO=Emile, Zola, Manmohan, Singh,Sonia, Gandhi, Saudi,&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik=
My dear friend Mumbaikar, firstly I am not trying to preach anyone anything. I am just trying to make you realize the truth which you are oblivious to…. and the truth is certainly not what you believe it is. As far as the e-mails sent by these so called Deccan mujahideen and so on are concerned their purpose is to misguide by giving their real motive a religious angle. And I deny it because I don’t see how these attacks are meant to help Islam. The only one benefiting from these attacks is Pakistan since their aim was to unsettle India both socially and economically which only time will tell if they have been able to do so.
Secondly there is no such thing as moderates and extremists since no religion tells you to go and kill innocent people (and I have loads of Hindu and Christian friends), hence you’re either right or wrong that’s it!!!
As you claim no one is trying to mislead or obscure the truth to anyone since these acts are unacceptable. And believe me Mumbaikar it has never been a win-win situation for XXX and acts like these further add to the polarization of a particular community.
To Sudhakar: Why does a person of a minority have to time and again come up on a stage and give proof of his/her patriotism every time an act like this takes place. The same is not expected of other communities (and you know no-one is doodh ka dhula). And as far as Afzal Guru is concerned the ruling Government should be questioned not a particular community. Since, I don’t expect you to write a letter to GOI to punish ppl like Narendra Modi, Sadhvi, those proven guilty by the Srikrishna report or even those RSS chiefs who are involved in the killing of hundreds of Christians in Orissa and rest of South India why am I being questioned about it.
Guys think about it these things are easier said than done. Its time we as individuals stop pointing a finger at each other and instead question are so called Ruling Government which has proven to be absolutely inept in dealing with terrorism.
Hunain: No, it was not my intent to ask you or any person of a minority to prove your patriotism/loyalty at all. In fact when I talked about Afzal Guru, i referred to changing the minds of political class – not about proving your loyalty to fellow citizens
Indulge me for a minute and think about it this way. When does the “general public” hear muslim voices – only when something very something that can be construed as islam-in-danger (real or imagined) happens. The recent happening that come to mind are:
1. Danish Cartoons
2. US invasion in Iraq
3. Tasleema Nasreen episode etc
None of these were candle holding peace marches either.
So, politicians tend to get a message that Muslims care only about Islamic issues and nothing else. This reinforces the separation. Hence the reason I said that if muslims come out and call out for something other than a cause that is “islam in danger” then politicians will get the message. That was the extent of it.
Hunain: And before ask me why I had to mention Afzal Guru and not any other matter, I bought that up because it related to an attack on the sear of Indian democracy. So, I could not think of a more “Indian” cause!
Sudhakar: I do agree that the muslim community should do much more and take an active effort in addressing social issues which affect a common man irrespective of his beliefs. Since, they have long sat down on their backsides waiting for corrupt religious leaders and corrupt politicians to come and lift them up from their state of misery. Making them even more so dependant on these guys for things which range from quotas to seats in the parliament.
We live in times where there is, constant and ongoing, advanced intelligence and security information. Israel has MOSSAD as it’s intelligence arm which is aware of the movements of Al-Qaeda and it’s accomplices, supporters as does the USA intelligence service, without whose knowledge these bombers of Mumbai, terrorist could not have moved, operated and entered India or it’s shores.
Thus it could be concluded that, both USA and Israel were culpable re these bombings, wanted these deaths to happen. Why didn’t they intercept and stop them? Why, would be the logical response? The answer can only be to gain more support both worldwide and within India and Pakistan and/or, to cause confrontation, divisions between the two nations, India and Pakistan.
The USA intelligence service see the recent change to the new incumbent president of Obama as a threat. The tremendous economic USA problems would have reduced not only the budget of the USA intelligence service but also its staffing levels and its operational abilities worldwide as well as the reduction in financial support that Israel would require and need to continue its perceived threat to its country and its own people. Thus it was in the best interest for both Israel and intelligence arm of the USA to allow these Mumbai 9/11 bombers to continue its mission and objectives, in India. For many years, USA have had intelligence and staff based in Pakistan and Afghanistan and probably India too. Therefore USA intelligence would have been pre-aware of the Mumbai bombers or used, paid people in Pakistan, elsewhere, what to look the other way? This is validated by the fact that these bombers came into India via small boats. The nearest country was Pakistan. Had they come via any other country, then the small boats which the bombers used would have needed fuel and bigger boats which would have attracted attention and their discovery, much earlier. The USA had surveillance planes, boats, aircraft carriers within the vicinity, within the Indian ocean, off Iraq and flying over Afghanistan, Pakistan, India which further supports the argument of USA involvement, looking the other way.
China was too powerful and too protected a country for this to be allowed to hsappen and Israel and USA intelligence to aide this kind of terrorist activity to occur thus, the next most, wealthiest country available was India, where they knew that security was lax and where Security was lacking in investment and training, manpower.
Who had most to gain by the Mumbai bombings? The outgoing president of USA, Mr. Bush and Israel, USA intelligence service and staff and of course, Wall Street (USA) with its loss of billions of Dollars. India still had its wealth. This wasn’t depleted, as it was in the West. India was not so foolish like the West, as to go down the path of pouring millions of rupees, into failing banks, companies, institutions. It was in the interest of USA, Israel the West for India to have it’s own equivalent of 9/11, to destabilize India, to destabilize India’s markets, to destabilize India’s wealth, to frighten markets, local and overseas investors. It is in the interest of the West to destabilize the economy of India… to place FEAR into the hearts of both Muslim Indians and Hindu Indians, to put fear into the tourist and tourist industry, that support and bring wealth and prosperity to India. It was in the interest of the USA and its allies to say “look India, you need our help and our support but, we will want something more, in return.” “You India will need to buy our USA security measures and services, buy the weapons, planes and helicopters from us, to defend your country and your people…” “We USA, shall give to you India with one hand and take with another… nothing is free in this life…”
It is in the interest of India to seek a solution with the leaders of its neighbours! It is the Pakistan army which has, according to the UK BBC service who has helped and allowed these terrorist to operate, train and move freely within Pakistan with the leaders of Pakistan having very little control or command over its armed forces. India needs to help and assist the Pakistani politicians to regain control over its armed forces and oust the high level commanders and replace them with ones which are more favourable to India’s interest and objectives. The Pakistani politicians are new, less experienced and lacking in direction. Thus India needs to act with the wisdom of Solomon. It is not in the best interest of India to be involved in a costly and expensive war between Pakistan, that is what these armed forces commanders of Pakistan want thus, India should be wise enough not to go down such a path. India would do well to win over the countries of the world re the Injustice of the Mumbai Bombings and get them to place pressure and sanctions upon Pakistan, so that the ruling party and its political leaders have no choice but, to make the changes and replace the Heads of its armed forces.
It was also stated via the BBC that the Talibans were agreeable to suspend their operations and call a truce to allow the Pakistan army to move away from the Afghanistan border and move to the border between India. This speaks volumes and India should not be so foolish as to walk into the trap, which is War. War will further destabilize the fabric and economy of India and play into the arms of the West who want India’s economy and wealth to depreciate, for the West wants and needs to sell to India.
The way forward is Peace…
US media doesnt influence the voting patterns in India… maybe thats why we dont lobby as hard there 😦
After Kargil War , the joint commission had found during its investigation, and recommended strongly, 31 radar bases across Indian coastline to guard it against infiltration. Guess how many of those are up???? I am sure you can guess the number, and in case you cant, think of AryaBhatta’s contribution to the world of mathematics
Mate nobody cares for Hindus because Hindus dont care for Hindus. So please do not expect anything to change. The recent events highlight the fact. No Arundhati, Setalvad have come and spoken against the crimes which have been perpetrated against Hinds. But you will see them happily signing their same old tune each time a member of the minority community has been targeted.
How come Shabana Azmi never comes around to give her views when majority bear the brunt? This just shows that we Hindus are weak and divided. I am not advocating that what has happened with the minorities is correct but then after a point, somebody will snap and react. Which may possibly explain the Sadhvi’s and Colonel’ actions. May be they thought, “Anyay sehne wala anyay karne wale se zyada paapi hota hai”.
The Brits just divided us into Hindus and Muslims. And we have been dividing ourselves into smaller and smaller factions.
The ‘Economist’ notes that “A report the government commissioned in 2006 found Muslims across the country faring, on average, worse than the Hindu majority in education, jobs and income. ” Pray tell me if the community as a whole does not want to improve its condition, is the majority to be blamed. The imams want the followers to remain illiterate as that suits them better in furthering their evil intentions. However, I am not sure that the educated class belonging to this community would behave differently.
I feel sorry for all of us. All that we can do is blog.
I have never tried to make my views personal and wouldnt have. But this time I feel differently. I was indifferent to these incidents earlier. But this time I feel different. Nobody I know was hurt or was killed. But this time I feel different. I have always exercised my franchise, whether I will do so in the future, I dont know. This time I feel different.
@nico demus
“The way forward is Peace…”…..there is no denying that Peace is the desired goal, the question is whether you achieve it, from a position of strength or through compromise.
Atleast to me, the goals of radical Islam are abundantly clear, and I doubt compromise is the way to combat it.
“India would do well to win over the countries of the world re the Injustice of the Mumbai Bombings and get them to place pressure and sanctions upon Pakistan, so that the ruling party and its political leaders have no choice but, to make the changes and replace the Heads of its armed forces.”
Given that the Army has ruled Pakistan for much of its existence and supported terrorist outfits, do you really expect reformed behavior with some organizational changes? even if these changes do transpire through sanctions, all is forgiven for the carnage and bloodshed that took place last week?
@ Nikhil
This time I too feel different.
Its funny how 2 days changed me from “i-dont-believe-in-god” to “who-was-Savarkar?”
wuld like to hear yr opinion on this one:
http://www.hotklix.com/?ref=content/152704
While India goes on the record to passively say that we’re going to avoid direct military action against Pakistan, we need to take care that we not fall fully to sleep! They’re gearing up for action on the horizon! An online Pakistani newsline reads that China & Italy have rushed to Pakistan’s side – WTF?!!
“…China has also assured Pakistan of moral, financial and material support in tackling the Mumbai fallout. In a message, the Chinese government said that it would assist Pakistan in any situation to overcome problems and challenges.”
http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/02/top2.htm
The way forward is to throw out the greedy politicians and corrupt babus out of the nation
Ludicrous article in a Pakistani daily:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008122story_2-12-2008_pg7_35
Who is that doofus comparing US SWAT teams to NSG and Marcos? SWAT teams in the US even in large cities, as a rule, are staffed by deputed personnel from the main strike force of the city’s Police Department or PD. There may be a few cities where there are permanent SWAT teams (NYPD?) but that is rare, simply because it is too expensive. A SWAT team usually has the luxury of spending most of its time on well-prepped missions which involve the threat – not use – of overwhelming force against 1-5 well armed perps or suspects in small confines. Examples include one bank robber who has run away to hide in an abandoned mall, or say a 2-3 perps holding a home securing the family ass hostages, or domestic violence cases where (given the plethora of high power arms and ammo available in the US0 the perp is probably high on crack/cocaine and holding off a local police team threatening to bump off himself, his kids and his wife, if he is no given a job immediately or some such thing. And then you have the other big responsibility of serving high risk warrants to the armed and dangerous suspect to be arrested nd produced in court or the fugitive/absconder. There is no ready to go SWAT team in the US that is kitted up and ready to go on hot standby. There probably will very soon, because the Bombay Op has been a huge wakeup call to police forces all over the world. The consensus among Western Europe and US/Canadian public security officials is that none of them is really prepared for an outing of this sort. The Israelis of course are in usual fashion claiming all sorts of things without basis forgetting how with unrestrained freedom of action, even striking at the roots, they have never been able to eradicate terror, only control it. Russia and Sri Lanka two other countries that have faced really badxxs situations have been mature and restrained in their comments because let’s say, along with India the three can forget more in an afternoon on counter-terror than the Israeli/US/Europeans combined have learnt in the last three decades.
The IN Marcos are an offensive force that have been extremely successful in clearing out the Wular Lake in the Kashmir valley and practically own the place. They are in Bombay as a hot-standby force for high seas ops and infrastructure retrieval, with Quick reaction responsibilities. The NSG is a strike and fightback force that works on prepared missions primarily in the Kashmir Valley where they have been extremely effective in hostage rescue, mop up ops, and are very well armed. They are not an offensive force like the Paras/SF which is what work at the front. NSG gets in when terrorists have snuck in and entered residential areas taking deep defensive positions. They are well armed and certainly better trained than the best SWAT teams anywhere simply because this is the what they do all the time. Half of them are from the army and the other half from the police, all volunteers. Why didn’t they use NVG? Do you have any idea how bulky those things are? It is OK when you are searching for 2-3 perps in a small home, not when you are wandering about a 500-room hotel with 100s of hostages. Could they be armed and trained better? Certainly as there is always room for improvement. Bullet proof jackets have a limited life, If you notice some of the pix you will find some of the NSG jackets with rectangular panels on them – these are solid block inserts that give added protection from the nastier rounds. Although the terrorists were using only standard AK rounds (as the Marcos will tell you in the press briefing) the NSG wasn’t taking chances. There were SIG and MP5s in plenty with grenade launchers and Carl Gustavs and no lack of firepower. The heliborne landing was undertaken fully in the knowledge that there may be an RPG or Stinger armed perp on the terrace.
And for all you Chairborne Keyboard Commandos – the Peter B. Lewis Bldg Op in Cleveland, OH in 2003 involving a lone crazed gunman (with a dud of a machine pistol) took 12 hours to finish. So let’s hold our breaths before making undue remarks.
The Bombay Op is a first for special forces anywhere in the world, and I hope it is the last of its kind to happen anywhere in the world. There is no instance of a city-wide Operation of this nature anywhere ever to date. And remember it is not only the Marcos and NSG, it is also the Bombay Police (who captured the squealing piglet barehanded and shot one other at a checkpoint) the Bombay Fire Brigade, the Army, and the Rapid Action Force. This time India decided that even if late in reacting, there would be no hostage negotiation and no biryani for the militants. 100s of hostages were saved and for the first time ever in an op of this sort one terrorist was captured alive. Hats off to the Bombay Police who soldiered on as if nothing happened after losing three top leaders. And all those medics at the many hospitals who are still working for >96 hours.
Last week the US has announced that 20,000 US Army personnel will be stationed within the homeland for security. An unprecedented move because the law forbids the deployment of the military for internal operations unless firmly under civilian control.
Make no mistake, every “developed” 1st world country with all their might think that they have dodged a bullet that India took for them last week. NO ONE excepting the doofuses on CNN/Fox or Somini Sengupta believes that one John McClaine is enough to liberate a building. That’s phoney nonsense.
We have our real heroes – the men in uniform. Not the glitzy movie stars and cricketers. Our armed forces aren’t staffed by hi brawn-lo brain jingos. They are staffed by very committed patriots.
Watch the press briefing with the Marcos, and hear the two young officers talk – both hooded, one with glasses, one without. When is the last time you heard anyone talk grammatically correct English and Hindi in perfectly constructed sentences? Watch Hav.Sunil Yadav or the many Bombay FD and Bombay PD personnel. Everyone of them took these jobs because they wanted to, even if they could have made 10X the money with 0.1X the pain in any other job. Let’s not fail them. Ever.
GB you are right about not blaming Pak openly. We have no real (I.e. US acceptable) proof anyways. But I am more outraged at the “local supporters” of these terrorists. It is simply not possible to walk into a country and kill people like this. It is obvious that the attack was very well planned. Doing something about these local supporters is within India’s rights. Of course there are votebank issues to be considered. Who gives these terrorists shelter and food?
As an aside, when so many Pakistani and Bangladeshi citizens on valid visas (never mind the illegals and infiltrators) disappear into India, are there any steps taken? Don’t visa applicants need to identify a “local sponsoring family/friend” they will stay with? Aren’t those people responsible for these people’s disappearance? Once again, penalizing the “local sponsors” is within India’s jurisdiction. So instead of blaming Pak/B’desh etc, why doesn’t the judiciary so anything about their local lifelines?
Let us remember that terrorism is only defeated when local sympathy for the “cause” is lost. As long as we have “local supporters” in India and we don’t even condemn them openly, we cannot hope for safer cities. After all Punjab became safe only when local support for Sikh terrorism was finished.. regardless of Paki support for the Babbar Khalsa.
CONDOLENCE MEETING
FOR THE MARTYRS OF THE JEHADI ATTACK ON MUMBAI
At
COLLEGE SQUARE, KOLKATA
On
3 DECEMBER,2008, At 2.00 PM
@ kaangeya,
The “doofus” who compared NSG to the SWAT teams in US happens to be a former LEO (Law enforcement officer for the uninitiated), who specialized in logistical aspects of SWAT/SOG deployment. Suffice it to say that I have seen my fair action of SWAT and HRT doing about their job. What makes their job easier is that they are well equipped to handle these situations. I was appalled to see that the commandos used mobile phone to get in touch with each other and not the secure channel two way radio, that is a must for special forces. Not only this would hamper their rescue efforts, but also put the commando’s life in jeopardy. The government could have prevented many deaths and loss of hostage if our crack assault group was better equipped, and this is a fact. I admire their bravery, but sending in teams without proper equipment is almost as bad as asking them to perform a suicide mission.
So Kaangeya, let the ‘doofus’ name calling at the door and try to act civil. Reading up statistics on wikipedia doesn’t make you an expert. MP5s and Sig sauer P226 and HK PSG sniper rifles are indeed formidable weapons. But they don’t do squat if you can’t see the enemy. You might as well take a piece of stick and run after them. IF you really know what you are saying, then you must know that Bushnell NVG cost about 200$ a peace and is around 3 lbs. So I don’t know where you got an impression that NGV are like lab microscopes which weight a lot. So according to your argument, NSG should do away with NGV, and walk in the dark, just using their sixth sense to find the terrorist! NSG didnt not even have the floor plans for the most famous hotel in India! AGain my friend, I am not questioning the bravery of the soldiers. They are doing the best they can with limited resources. Imagine how well they can do their jobs, if they are better equipped.
Pleas refrain from calling names and don’t ever assume that people writing comments don’t know what they are saying.
Peace out
this is ridiculous
on one hand we are giving ultimatum to pak that if you dont give dawood and masood then follow consequences
However, recently, India stated that there will be no military action against pak.WTF.there is no firm decision making process happening on top level.
guess uncle SAM told us not to behave rudely and manmohan behaved accordingly.
I am tired of hearing that its the fault of politicians..truth is first we were ruled by kings, then mughals and finally english…slavery is in indian blood…
we choose to be slaves of politicians.. no country will tolerate a politican like lallo prasad we do it gladly bcuz its in blood…..we prefer to be under someone rather than taking responsibility…. that includes me , you and everyone else..
My first reaction on seeing the events unfold was that all of the political class will be united in their view: it is Pakistan that has to be held responsible. We are a nation of fools to be expecting that by doing what we are, the politicians will listen to us or mend their ways. They have all sold their soul to the devil and are now beyond redemption.
How many years has it been since Dawood was forced to leave our country? 15. and yet he still controls a large part of his operations sitting from somewhere in Pakistan. Does one really think that this can be possible without the help of the politicians, babus etc. That is why I say that we are nation of fools. We elect these people and they in turn sell our security to these guys.
And this entire charade of lighting candles, staging walks drives me mad. What purpose does it serve? “We want to show solidarity”. That is all that we want to do: show. Just conform. As I may put it: it’s the in-thing to do. Really, all of this does not lead us anywhere.
The Indian money making machine under the name of BCCI will soon start touring our neighbour and invite them over. We all will get busy in the next few days and words that are written here will be confined to these posts.
And why blame anyone. Today Pakistan has shown how vulnerable our country is and tell you what it won’t be long before you might see China opening a front. And why forget Bangladesh. Tiny as it may be, it shares a porous border with many of our eastern states.
We haven’t seen the last of these terror attacks.
@Nancy
Please spare me with your analysis: “Its their rath yatra and riots that we are paying so much today”. Suggest you go back and brush up on your history. Do names like Md Ghazni and Md Ghauri ring a bell? There are numerous others who come to mind. So please do not say that we are paying the price for what happened is due to the rath yatra.
Folks,
Looks like the Thackeray clan is back….
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Mumbai/Shiv_Sena_demands_Presidents_rule_in_Maharashtra/articleshow/3784179.cms
@kaangeya
“Watch the press briefing with the Marcos, and hear the two young officers talk – both hooded, one with glasses, one without. When is the last time you heard anyone talk grammatically correct English and Hindi in perfectly constructed sentences? Watch Hav.Sunil Yadav or the many Bombay FD and Bombay PD personnel. Everyone of them took these jobs because they wanted to, even if they could have made 10X the money with 0.1X the pain in any other job. Let’s not fail them. Ever”
Well said. Irrespective of all drawbacks of the media coverage, the Marcos and the NSG guy who said “Nothing is difficult for us” were great advertisements to the heroism and the sacrifice of the defence team. The same though struck me while watching them “These guys could be doing anything and could be very successful but instead they are willingly putting themselves in death’s way for us” !!
I’m sure these guys just by being on TV have created 1000s of new heroes and we need that kind of impact particularly if we consider news articles like this:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02mumattacks-mumbai-attack-was-a-jihadi-fundraiser.htm
If the politicians know what’s good for them they better ensure that we have no need for heroism of this sort.
Graduate Student in the US says:
@ av
“av Dec 1st, 2008 at 2:51 am
All this sometimes makes one despair. The Indian union is just a 60 yr old idea. Is is working? How long will it last?
We have always been a collection of small states with strong regional and religious identities. Have the last 60 yrs built enough of a national identity to supercede those?
I sound gloomy to myself”
av,
You raise a very pertinent question. What you are gloomy over has disturbed me for the past couple of years ever since I read Sunil Khilnani’s ‘The Idea of India’. Read it sometime if you haven’t already. While it is true that “India” as a “nation-state” is 60 years old and that in the immediate context of pre-colonial rule (I would say in the period post Aurangzeb’s death in 1707 during which the Mughal rule increasingly crumbled down to 1858’s Queen’s Proclamation) we were indeed a “collection of small states with strong regional and religious identities.” However if we look at our past we’ve had rulers who have ruled vast expanses of the sub-continent. The Mauryas, Guptas and the Mughals territorial boundaries come to mind.
Take a look at the cartographical expanse of these dynasties/empires:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurya_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire
Although yes, the geography of “India” has kept reshaping itself: there were periods when these empires had territorially expanded to as far as modern day Afghanistan or periods when the modern southern states were ruled by different regional heads. Secondly, despite the fact that there had been factions and rebellions (particularly during Aurangzeb’s rule and after his death, even during Ashoka’s reign for that matter), these rulers by and large had successfully ruled over these vast territories. The point I am trying to make here is that yes, the times and socio-economic-religious factors 2000 years ago were different than today, BUT the fact still remains that there was unity albeit the usual and expected political adversaries, struggles and contestations.
The idea that “India” had been simply a “collection of small states with strong regional and religious identities” which was “united” by the British is hard to accept. If we look at the approx 150 year period before British rule (note not the Company rule) and periods between two important dynasties, yes we did have small principalities. But apart from these eras “India” had been a united and expansive territorial entity ruled by a single ruler. There were various political and social factors that acted as adhesive bonds to keep various groups within the control/hegemony of the center (that would require an entire post and lecture on history which I don’t want to get into here). Well one can argue (and surprisingly some western scholars do argue) that there was no “India” as we know it today before the British rule since both the term “India” and the geographical territory we call “India” was designed by the British. If one starts agreeing to this “argument” one can easily fall into the pits of despair, one problem being erasing approximately 5000 years of pre-colonial history.
The idea of “India” as envisioned by the founders of our modern nation-state is a “SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC”. Yes, it is a relatively new idea. “Is it working?” as you ask. Well both yes and no. We are gradually losing the “secular” part of it and as for being “socialist” I don’t think I need to inform anyone here.
“How long will it last” is largely dependent on us Indians, no matter which part of the world we live in. The idea of India can only last if we all work towards the spirit of these simple yet challenging characteristics that define India in our Preamble. “Have we been able to build a national identity in the past 60 years”: I think “no”, thanks to divisive communal, regional and caste politics and I would add some sectors of scholarship on India, particularly in the west.
Lastly, and the reason why your comment prodded me to write this comment. No, we have not “always been a collection of small states”. One final point, I am not one who sings songs regarding the “golden era” of a past which we have alas lost. While some of it is a mythical historical reconstruction, there indeed were composite elements in both our ancient and medieval history that we may need to revisit to live successfully the “idea of India”, the sabotage of which has left both you and me (and many many more like us) “gloomy” and perturbed.
In peace.
If they are rich, they sponsor Jihadi terrorism.
If they are poor, they take up Jihadi terrorism.
If they are the majority, they become Jihadi terrorists.
If they are the minority, they become Jihadi terrorists.
If they are uneducated, they become Jihadis.
If they are educated, they become Jihadis too.
If they are pious, they resort to Jihadi terrorism.
If they are moderate, they tolerate Jihadi terrorism.
Who are they? Did I mention any religion here?
To the ex-LEO,
Methinks I was being kind. As for whether you have really been an LEO, I would rather not speculate, and give you the benefit of doubt. Because your comments and “facts” are a hodgepodge cut and paste from here and there. I am not going to point out some of the other bloopers in your comment and let you pick them out on your own.
what kaangeya says is absolutely correct…
it’s one thing to sit at home and make statements about how the operation should have been conducted, why it took so much time etc etc…and a totally different thing to be out there and do what the NSG did…
Let us give the armed forces a break ppl…in all fairness they are trained and obviously know what needs to be done in such situations…
Few points:
1) There is a lot of talk going on in the media about certain elements in Pakistan openly instigating the ppl and making “anti-India” inflammatory speeches…according to the media these ppl should be arrested and put behind bars or handed over to India because they are a threat to our security…
But there are so many ppl in India who make anti-Pakistan speeches…case being Modi, Thackeray and co. who openly abuse Pakistan and make comments to rouse hatred…have we put them behind bars???they could be considered a threat to “Pakistan’s security” (if there is any such thing as security in that country) and their speeches inflammatory…
Politicians in Tamil Nadu openly proclaim their support to the LTTE and support their cause…They could be considered as a threat to Sri Lanka’s security and their speeches inflammatory…have we put them behind bars???
2) I honestly don’t understand what good will the resignation of Mr. Bandhgala and Mr. Dance Bar do to the nation’s security and its response to this latest terror attack…say a person who is working at some post in the IB or RAW or whatever gets info on possible terror attacks…if he doesn’t act on that then he is the one who should be fired…if he gave the info to the appropriate state security authorities but they didn’t act on it then they should be kicked out…how will the resignation of the Home Minister help if these incompetent guys still keep their jobs? After every terror attack intelligence says that prior warnings were given to so and so ppl…if this is the case then why do these guys still have their jobs?The Home Minister and others at that level can only issue directives to implement orders etc. but the actual onus on implementation lies with a totally different set of ppl…
The Indian Navy blows up pirates off Somalia and protects merchant vessels sailing those seas…however the terrorists sail right under their noses and cross international and Indian waters and land near the Gateway right next to the naval command…if this is a failure of the Indian navy then should the President of India, who is the supreme commander of our armed forces, assume moral responsibility and resign?
It seems that “being accountable” has become a synonym for “being a scapegoat”…the nation is angry…wants to see something being done so lets ask the Home Minister to accept moral responsibility and resign…pronto! everyone thinks that steps are being taken and carries on with their work…incompetent guys who are actually responsible for this failure still keep their jobs and we wait for the next terror attack…after which the new Home Minsiter will resign assuming moral responsibility and life will go on…
if a railway signalman commits a mistake and hundreds of ppl lose their lives in an accident then the Railway Minister resigning makes no sense if the signalman gets to keep his job…
Accountability is needed at the micro level first…if that is done then it should automatically work its way up the chain…what good will resignations at the top level do if the system continues to remain rotten at the bottom???
3) For all this talk of how the US and Israel are tough nations and take proactive measures to secure themselves and launch air strikes and missile strikes deep inside enemy territory, and how India should take a leaf out of their books and destroy POK terror camps or send crack teams to assassinate Dawood, let us actually consider if this is a viable option for us.
The US is located far away from the nations on which it launched “pre-emptive strikes”…also militarily, Afghansitan and Iraq combined would not be able to stand up to them for more than a couple of weeks…Similarly Israel’s neighbours are not half as strong as them militarily…none of them are nuclear armed.
India has the misfortune of being surrounded by neighbours who are unstable politically and are also struggling with their own internal conflicts. There is China, which sees India as a threat because of its rising global influence and whose dislike for India is well known. About Pakistan, nothing further needs to be said. There is Sri Lanka which is grappling with its own conflicts as is Nepal. Bangladesh is a problem state with its ppl illegally migrating to India. Myanmar is ruled by a military junta. Probably our most stable neighbour is Bhutan!
In such a situation, any aggression against Pakistan may result in a nuclear conflict where they use it first…no doubt we would win the war but the cost of victory would be catastrophic.
4) Finally, it is sad but true that we Indians are fractured in our response to these continuous terror attacks. Mumbaikars are coming out for peace rallies in support of the terror victims…candle light vigils are being held across the city to show solidarity with the victims…all this is very well but honestly, how many Mumbaikars gathered at the Gateway and organised rallies when 80 ppl were blown to bits in Assam?People die in Kashmir every week; do we hold candle light marches and express support to them every single time? Malegaon was rocked by blasts…the N-E is struck repeatedly…the Gujjars held two entire states to ransom for a couple of days…and what did the Mumbaikar do? what did the Bangalorean do? what did the Chennaite do? Did we hold rallies or express support??? nay mate, we got up and went to work…and this apathy is defined as “Spirit” of Mumbai or Delhi or whatever…This is rot.
Fact is, we don’t act until our home is hit…we sit back and remain passive…and when something of this sort happens in our city we make noises about “enough is enough” and “accountability” and “change”…
GB, I am very worried about the fact that the attacked places are opening up for business already and Taj restoration has begun. Its worrying me that clues and evidences pointing to the inside people who helped will now be wiped out or ignored…like always.
Pardon me for using your blog but I am desperate to get this fear of mine out and therefore leaving comments on popular websites.
@venky….ur point 4 is bang on…even today thrs a blast in assam…how many of us care for it???? media prefers showing admission issues in delhi schools news rather thn assam’s blasts….
when raj thackrey was spitting venom against north indians..he was tolerated and did get some support….whn NSG was doing their operations, north indians hit back and said its ppl from north and south saving mumbai….i dnt see much difference between the two….
there is so much of hue and cry about terror attack in mumbai( as it shud be) because it was in mumbai, foreigners were also attacked and it was live on TV all the time…what if the same thing had happened in udaipur or vizag or darjiling….
if we wanna fight an enemy…we need to be united frst….else we r headed for a disaster….our generation has a chance to stop it….may be next generation wont get tht chance……
@Kaanyega
I cannot agree more with you. Although, at the same time, it is good to ask hard questions only if it results in them being provided with even better(read fancy) equipments. While criticizing the special forces one should bear in mind the fact that Urban warfare is considered as one of the toughest battlegrounds (even more than guerilla/jungle warfare). Ask the US forces in Baghdad. Fighting a battle inside a city is a very hard nut to crack. Imagine doing the same thing inside a 500 room hotel with no detailed idea about the confusing passages and spiraling staircases. In these circumstances what they achieved is not commendable but deserves a standing ovation. Remember, they lost only 2 people in Taj and that too because the Major was trying to shield his team from the terrorists. These are the best that we have and they have proven that. They will get better with experience(Although I wish they never need to get such practice).
I don’t blame people who criticize the special forces. Let me give an example. IAF fighter pilots look like sitting ducks inside a Mig-21. It does not make them look glamorous. Are they incompetent? We all got the answer when they were given Sukhois and asked to dogfight the USAF and RAF.
It requires more than looking good with fancy stuff to fight terrorists. That more is brain.
The cherry in the cake was an NSG commando saying after a 48 hour battle: We are not heroes. This is our job. We will be there wherever we are required.
http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/ls/2003/02/19lfeb169.htm
Dont know how many people are aware of this but India has granted Pakistan the status of Most Favoured Nation a number of yrs ago (check the above link on the Ministry of External Affairs site). The decision was taken unilateraly without Pakistan ever having reciprocated.
Doesn look like we will ever learn.
The NSG and other special forces are at par with the big 5 (USA, UK, Russia, Israel, France), when it comes to training.
When it comes to equipment and logistics, we are 1 generation behind (in the late 80s technology)
What the brave commandos of India have in training and motivation, they lack in technology.
The following need to be upgraded ASAP
1. Latest defensive armor (kevlar vests, kevlar helmets)
2. Latest tactical gadgets (night vision, communication interceptors and better transporters)
3. More precision firepower (our special forces still use AK47s and MP5s). While MP5s are good and reliable, the big 5 have moved on to MP7s.
Let me give an example. IAF fighter pilots look like sitting ducks inside a Mig-21. It does not make them look glamorous. Are they incompetent? We all got the answer when they were given Sukhois and asked to dogfight the USAF and RAF. It’s a lot more comlex than that. check out Bharat-Rakshak and a report from the latest Ex Red Flag. The MiG-21 is still a lethal aircraft with its now upgraded avionics and weapons. It has a v. small RCS and prettty fast. The IAF is the only force to have mastered this aircraft and the accidents if any have happened during the conversion phase when hte lack of an AJT has left the younger pilots learning on an unforgiving aircraft.
More on the matter of propah English and Shuddh Hindi. Read about Ryan Chakravarthy and Amitabh Sharma here http://telegraphindia.com/1081202/jsp/frontpage/story_10194875.jsp. Two city bred boys from a city v.unfairly and insensitively maligned for its leftism and intellectual snobbery.
Ryan Chakravarty, 28, was so busy at work last week that he could not call his anxious parents in Patuli for 60 hours. He was hunting down terrorists in Mumbai under siege for three days.
Amitabh Sharma’s relatives in Bangur had no idea that he was flying high on Friday, air-dropping commandos on to the roof of Nariman House in Mumbai in an Mi-17 helicopter.
Both Ryan’s and Amitabh’s families on two ends of the Eastern Metropolitan Bypass are proud of what their boys have achieved but petrified at the thought of what might have been…
Ryan, an ex-student of St. Xavier’s Collegiate School, was the leader of a team from the 52 Special Action Group, the counter hijack task force of the National Security Guard, that participated in rescue mission in Mumbai…
Amitabh, known as Kukker Sharma by his batchmates because of his love for chicken, was posted in Mumbai, where he lived with his mother Sneha Sharma, wife Jyoti and kids Ayush and Isha, when he was called to the war zone. And he flew to the rescue in his Mi-17 helicopter, air-dropping commandos on the roof of Nariman House.
“We are proud of him, every single day, and not just because of the role he played in freeing Mumbai from the clutches of terrorists,” said Ashok Sharma, Amitabh’s uncle.
Watching him save so many people’s lives is worth the tension that goes with it, says the Sharma family.
“And after 18 years, we are getting used to it,” said Sheila.
After I read these thikngs I have revised my conclusion. These are men and women who could have chosen a job that paid 100X what they make for 0.01% of the pain.
@kaanyega
That was my point. What looks bad…need not necessarily be bad. It is easy to be swayed away by the hype of Mossad/SWAT(I read somewhere that this whole thing about Mossad is a big mythology/legend. They are good but not nearly as much as they are hyped). Surprisingly, the accident rate of old MIGs has gone down. Have we finally got the AJTs?
Warning: If you have hypertension of any kind , avoid this ..
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=Eij5o7XizIA
After watching hit , drink a lot of water. breathe in and out slowly 20 times.
The comments in to the video posting has said everything u can say… so avoid hurting ur tongue. See if someone can extract a drop of humour or two from this craziness.
@ Kangeeya,
You live in a dream world where you picture commandos to be equal to Sunny Deol in a bollywood movie.That they have the heart and courage and no matter what kind of equipment they use, they can get the job done. While I admire their courage and bravery and salute them for the same, you can’t help but notice the lack of proper equipment which spec ops need/require. India has lots of money now, and it shouldn’t be a problem upgrading at least a part of the commando team if not the whole. I agree with Maddy, Abhishek and NSG nation who ask for better equipment for our troops.
Case 1: We see police (the first responders) using 1950’s era rifles and Sten sub-machine gun to fight terrorist who use the ubiquitous AK-47/56 which fires far superior rounds and it doesn’t require a rocket scientist to figure out who would win that battle. Unnecessary loss of police personals can be prevented.
Case 2: The commandos did not have any floor plans for the hotels and were lost in a maze of 500 rooms. Why wasn’t any intelligence gathering done prior to storming? Tactical and surgical hits are always more precise than full scale assault.
Case 3: NSG commandos were quoted saying that they couldn’t see the terrorist because it was dark. This, IMO, tells you how well prepared our forces were. NSG are called black cats as they specialize in tactical night assault, so one would assume that they would carry state-of-the-art night vision equipments.
Case 3: NSG were also quoted saying that their cell phones were their life lines when they were traversing through the rooms. They did not posses any two way radio that might give them the tactical advantage.
Case 4: Having thermal and heat signature equipment could have considerably cut down the # of rooms they had to search as not all the rooms were occupied (reports indicate that out of 500 rooms, only 178 were occupied on the fateful day)
Case 5: SPG (Special protection group), which provides proximity protection to PM, and his/her immediate family is modeled on lines of US secret service. It is very well equipped and the agents have been seen wearing extremely advanced tactical gear including F 2000 and FN p90 sub machine guns. I agree that protecting the most powerful Indian should be top priority, but it also shows that the government rather equip agencies that protect the VVIPs that the ones that do the dirty work.
Case 5: What is the point of having a crack team of NSG outside the capital and not anywhere else. It took them hours to get to Mumbai and they arrived not in armored personal carriers, but BEST buses.
Looking at these situations, one must indeed be in awe of Marcos and NSG and they achieved this kind of success with 1980s era equipment. They have the heart and courage, but those can take you only so far.
I salute their bravery, and I would still lobby for an upgrade in equipment for better tactical advantage.
I have a theory. It was Ram Gopal Varma who, running out of ideas and with his films bombing regularly, orchestrated these attacks to get a bunch of new stories to last the next twenty years of movie-making.
@ Marcos344
While I do not wish to quibble with the fact that better equipment is always welcome. Just want to point out some facts.
1. I thought that the NSG commandos were armed with Heckler and Koch weapons (MP5s?). supposedly top of the line.
2. I think the media is confusing the fact that the commandos could not see in the smoke- with an inability to see in the dark. NVGs (and thermal imagers for obvious reasons) are not effective in hot smoky conditions.
3. Re BEST buses – I think it was used because speed was of the essence. As it is the NSG were delayed because some damn politician wanted to travel with them to mumbai. Hauling armored transport carriers in a separate flight would have only delayed the action. That said – I think every major city in India should have NSG quickreaction teams for such eventualities.
4. Despite all eqiupments – what failed was our intelligence gathering units. I’m no expert – but our tech and humint capabilities have to be beefed up. While I agree that no measures can foolproof a city from jehadi terror – there are too many troubling questions in this case with the ease with which these murderers entered the city lugging massive amounts of weapons.
Sorry forgot to add –
Also read that the terrorists telephone conversations between each other were hacked and were being transmitted to the NSG in real time to increase their situational awareness.
“The NSG not having the floor plans of the Hotels” … – guys, get real. The NSG does not carry arnd the floor plans of the 1000s of potential buildings that can be targeted in India at any time.
If a plane is hijacked, the Airline is supposed to provide the NSG with the type of the Aircraft and the seat arrangement as well as the passenger arrangement.
Similarly if the Taj was attacked, some authority from the Taj Group is supposed to stand up and provide the floor plans to the NSG. And also which of the hotel rooms are possibly occupied by what type of guests.
I am sure the NSG has this most basic common sense that before they try to enter the building, they would like to know how its planned from within. If they did not have the floor plans, then its clear those were NOT provided to them for whatever reasons.
@Arnie
Not to mention that they used Heckler and Koch PSG-1s and SIG SG 552 Commandos as well. That’s some serious hardware.
@ RR
yes you are right …. i should have given it a thought! but i didnt mean it….like its so fashionable to say it ..”my quote was misinterpreted” ….as for any “special” attention to any community i have been totally against it…the thing is….since that community is politically active & strong (as a votebank), politicians care only for them!! Hindus neither vote enough, nor do they choose right person/party & worst of all there is no one really to choose!!
the thing is we keep on debating like this till the next mishap happens somewhere!! that is the only problem: we only talk, discuss, debate, “brainstorm” (as my bosshole says it) & those Jihadis dont think at all !!
@Charu
too much of ingenuity!! 😛
@ no matter
what you said, is sadly turning out to bitter truth. I hope it doesnt become like that grave.
@condolence
for godssake stop this farce!! In my area since sunday they’ve been blaring “ab tumhare hawale watan sathiyo” (i was startled :this isnt jan 26 or Aug 15!) ….on radio horrendous bollywood songs are being dedicated to “brave soldiers who… blahblah” . ENOUGH OF SYMBOLIC PROTEST!!
Agree with kaangeya, though better equipment is always welcome.
We can keep discussing the strategy adopted till the cows come home. It is better left to people who managed it and what they perceived the situation to be.
What amazes me is how were the terrorists able to master the layout of the hotel so well.
I can tell you for sure that it is one thing to read layout blueprints and another to relate when you are in the building. A building like the TAJ with its sprawling heritage wing will have a crazy number of layout plans of all floors, split levels, connecting staircases and basements. The Tower will be ‘relatively’ simpler to crack.
I still can’t believe that an outsider, high on drugs, in the middle of a fight, with all the fires being lit and grenades exploding was able to recall the layout and find his way around.
There has to be someone inside who helped for even hotel guests do not get to see the labyrinthine service corridors and rear exits.
@ AlphaQ
True – Kaangeya is spot on. The fact is we can always have a wishlist of bigger and better equipment – but trying to play catch up with the big 5 is plain silly. I also wish we could get the USS Enterprise, photon torpedos and Jedi Knights while we are at it – but the fact is you fight with what you have.
Besides the US / Russia and Israel with all their high tech weapons were utter failures at Waco, Beslan, Jenin and the recent firefight with hezbollah.
We simply need better intelligence and now we need a very deliberate action plan to get the external and internal perpetrators. I find it difficult to believe that there was no local assistance provided.
Here comes the gem:
Rakhi Sawant on recent Mumbai attack:
“Had they airdropped me from a helicopter in their rescue operation, I would have danced in skimpy clothes and seduced all the terrorist inside and would have killed them one-by-one. I know, eventually they will also kill me, but I do not mind dying for my country.”
Link: http://www.greatandhra.com/ganews/viewnews.php?id=11437&scat=4
Looking at the way our politicos have been speaking, i think Rakhi has shown far better spunk.
On a lighter note though, i think the terrorists far from getting seduced by Rakhi, would have got psyched out and run away terrified !
@dodo
Rakhi Sawant….ahh yes, one of India’s WMD (Weapon of Mass Distraction). Thoughtful of her to chime in, the insensitivity and attention grabbing never ceases.
@ Arnie
Agree with you. But it is not a blind call for better equipment. If better equipment can save a few more lives, then it is all worth it. In hindsight, I can’t think how we could have prevented this incident short of putting NSG on the ready in all hotels.
I also agree with you on the point of getting a system in place for our intelligence agencies. It is the only way out, but do you seriously believe a few score lives make a difference to Haldar, Chaturvedi and Narayanan (or for that matter their political bosses). If it did they would have resigned out of shame a long time back.
I agree that Israel does not always win inspite of its permanently offensive posture or the larger than life image that it has been given by media. It may have been great when the rest of the (arab) world was unprepared, not any more.
Less said about Russians the better. They are pretty accident prone in matters of defense and this extends to hostage rescue ops as well.
The only place where we can learn from Israelis is to go after the perpetrators till the end of time – a la Germans responsible for holocaust. It should not be out of mind, out of focus. There has to be a cost of doing dirty business with India – like the kanoon ke lambe haath – and this must be extracted sooner or later. We should not forget.
It would be a good idea to start at ’93 and start going after the state and non state actors who were responsible. I say ’93 because short of putting ads that this part of the blast is sponsored by ISI they did everything else.
We have pretty much ruled out a covert war, sanctions don’t do much damage to a failed state and we have no diplomatic muscle. This is the least we can do. Else, encore.
Mayawati’s security apparatus has 350 cops, 34 vehicles
Mayawati will now have a posse of 100 Black Cat commandos from the National Security Guard (NSG), up from existing 36
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2726050.cms
Latest Report:
Exchange between Pranab ‘Elizabeth’ Mukherji and Asif ‘Capt Barbosa’ Zardari…
Elizabeth Mukherji: Captain Barbossa Zardari, I am here to negotiate the cessation of hostilities against India and turning over the most wanted.
Barbossa Zardari: There are a lot of long words in there, Ol’ Man; we’re naught but humble terrorists. What is it that you want?
Elizabeth Mukherji: I want you to hand over the most wanted and never come back.
Barbossa Zardari: I’m disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means “no”.
Elizabeth Mukherji: Very well. I’ll consult Sonia and be back.
Liz Mukherji had promised visible action. Now what?
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Terrorism/machine.html
To whomsoever it may concern…
HK MP5 vs. MP7: The Heckler – Koch MP5 is the de facto weapon of choice for all Special Forces around the world, especially the SD3 / SD6 model. The reason behind it is it very small easily manoeuvrable and it comes with a retractable stock. The Schalldämpfer (Silenced version) is remarkably silent indeed and is the ideal candidate for close combat operations… The muzzle velocity is deliberately reduces as the slug leaves the gun so as provide whisper quiet operation and eliminate the “flash” conspicuous to give away the position in a “dark” setting. But the cons are …its low velocity… It cannot pierce armour, and that is where MP7 PDW comes into the picture…So given that our friends from across the border were not armoured MP5 is a very good weapon indeed. Another factor is weapon familiarisation… an old weapon (with less features) is often more reliable than the newer and advanced stuff… because its like an old friend, the gun and its user know each other very well. Our NSG was using the MP5 (not the Schalldämpfer version though) which is a very good weapon indeed. Next the sniper rifle…PSG-1 according to me, is one of the best weapons ever produced from the HK stable…legend goes, it can shoot a bullet a kilometre away. (That’s why it costs more than 5 lacs per unit) With the silencer however the range is drastically reduced to a meager 800 m. The ones used in the op were perhaps without silencers fitted on them. Here again the choice of weapon depends on the context, the PSG-1 with or without silencer is suited for urban operations where long range weapon is not required. But on the other hand the army uses the Soviet Dragunov which has a lesser accuracy but superior range…
Correction: ^^previous post^^
The correct intent is : legend goes, it can shoot a *button* (and not a _bullet_, as mentioned) a kilometre away.
When the nation is under siege by islamic terrorists, and hundreds killed, this is not the time to say that this was expected. In times like this, we are angry, despondent, and insecure. We are justifiably angry at our politicians and at our intelligence and security apparatus as well as the criminals. It is natural for us to blame others. However, this is not the time to feel helpless and weak. Instead we should take a closer look at ourselves. Unbelievably, the Mumbai attacks have leveled our differences. Rich or poor, employed or unemployed, famous or ordinary, we are all likely to die with equal probability anywhere, anytime. If we felt proud of our achievements or wealth or education, we all stand bared and exposed.
What can us as individuals do? Swami Vivekananda used to say that given 1000 good men, we can change the world and we sure can. We need to start this with some self-examination. Are we ready to fight back? Shyamaprasad Mukherjee, the valiant freedom fighter of Bengal used to say that there are three stages of any struggle – protibad (protest), protirodh (defiance) and protisodh (revenge). Are we not at the last stage? Are you ready for revenge? Every one of us can contribute to all three to our extent with physical contribution, vision and money.
1. Fight the Political Elite
It is time to punish the current political class by unilaterally rising above self-interest to write, speak and vote against every one of the ruling candidates and demand their resignation as soon as possible. There is a feeling among these guys that they are above and beyond and somehow better than us. Otherwise, how can the Kerala chief minister verbally abuse the martyr’s father for not allowing him in his home and how can the “prince” Rahul Gandhi party all night when the nation was up and defending through a sleepless night. We are not saying that the alternatives are better. We throw the current rulers out to make a point so that when and if they come back they have learned their lessons that they are also accountable and punishable. The politicians have divided us along caste, favored some over others, and protected criminals like Afzal Guru while punishing innocents.
2. Fight the Complicit Media
Yes, you read it right – a vast majority of Indian media and intelligentsia are complicit. They have systematically weakened the police by criminalizing them for small to minor events, weakened the military through constant criticisms, opinions and editorials. They have systematically protested against necessary laws against terrorism and have persistently projected anyone defending the nation’s security as “Hindu Fundamentalist”. They have successfully painted themselves as the defenders of “secularism”. So a fair question to ask ourselves – “How is this so-called secularism working out for us?”
Ladies and gentlemen, we need a nationalistic media – one that will protect the nation’s interest. It should include comments from long-serving honest and dedicated members of the police and military as well as common folks who have generations of national service to speak for our nation without the fear of being called a Hindu Fundamentalist. Being a nationalist is not fundamentalism. Instead, not being a nationalist should be equated to complicity with islamic terrorism.
The politicians and media have distorted our perspectives and have turned good people into bad. Let us look at a good man like Hemant Karkare. As an ATS officer, he dedicated his life to defending the country. But the politicians, media, and the secularists found it necessary to create a “balance” by looking for the fictitious “Hindu terrorist”. The pressure was immense and so was the media scrutiny. So much so that the real terrorism was ignored and 4 innocent Hindus were captured and tortured. The result was the fateful loss of his own life and the nation shamed and bared by the islamic fundamentalists. Hope that this will create some perspective within us.
3. Terrorists have a religion
Yes they do. Shamelessly repeating that they do not is laying the groundwork for more. It is necessary to admit that the terrorists who pulled the trigger to kill innocents were trained and smart individuals. They are not cowards or stupid. They were muslims and they wanted to kill us because we are infidels or kafirs and we are a land of kafirs – deserving to die. There is intense hate in their hearts for us, and for our religion. This is not saying that every muslim is bad or that islam is bad. This is saying that those who are killing us are muslims and have a religion.
4. There are local muslims helping them
We need to admit that these Islamic terrorists were helped greatly by the locals. They give them safe houses, food, clothing, ammunition, intelligence and access. There are many among us who are helping and aiding them. Many of these locals are also aided, abetted, empowered and emboldened by the politicians, intelligentsia, and media.
5. We are faced with dire consequences
It has been said over and over again that such a time will come when no one will feel secure or will be able to do business or travel in India. If this is bad, the worse may be disintegration and destruction of Bharat as we know it. It is very real and Rajeev Srinivasan aptly described it in The Daily Pioneer on Dec 2, 2008. The intensity of attacks will grow.
6. It is not intelligence failure
Every time an incident like Mumbai happens, the political class and media rise up and blame it on “intelligence failure”. While there is some truth to that, our intelligence, police and military are by far the only reason these events have not destroyed and disintegrated our nation. They are one of the few still defending us. So while they need to be empowered and improved (not blamed), we need to blame the cause and root of this terrorism that is in Pakistan and within India, that is based on religion and hate.
7. It is not our fault
The tolerant (read coward) in us helped by the so-called intelligentsia have told us that this is all our fault and the reason is our own “intolerance”. No Sir, the few among us who have fought back are not the cause. They are the reason this is not far worse. The fault lies with the perpetrators, the real criminals in Pakistan and within India that have launched this religious war aided and abetted by our politicians, intelligentsia and media.
Circling back to the question, what can we do?
We can help support those among us that are willing to fight back. We need to allow ourselves to think independently of the media (out of the box) and selflessly to see who to support, and yes we should include Modi, Thackeray, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Abinav Bharat, nationalistic NGOs and everyone else. Why not when our very existence is threatened and we are faced with disintegration? We can support by voicing our opinions freely and frankly to everyone, write, vote and also help physically and with money.
We need to create a nationalistic media and intelligentsia. We need one of our own that is created, managed and funded by us. We need our own newspapers, talk radio, television and journalism. We need our own intelligentsia. We can directly participate and also fund them.
We need to be vocal and oppose any politician, member of the intelligentsia, or media who weakens our nation by writing, pulling their funding such as advertisements, canceling publications, writing vociferously to all media outlets and sympathetic media, and inundating them with letters, faxes and phone calls, and also make it very difficult for them to operate in India. We should vote them out and speak persistently against each and every one of them.
People who were vying for the blood ATS chief are now calling him martyr, with attitude like this that a particular type of terrorism is good and some other form is bad how do you expect a fundamental change in the mindset of people/country/police.
We need to fight terrorism on principle, not supporting it when it suits us (like some politicians are doing right now in TN) and pretending to fight it when we are victims, we need principled people. But alas in a country so used to “jugaad” principled people are looked upon as some kind of nut case. Heck even our commies follow a “jugaad” version of communism.
All of your posts on this issue have been extremely well written. Thanks for the unbiased view. Here’s something that I received a little while ago and thought I’d share with you. Don’t know if someone has done it already.
This is the Pakistani media talking about the Mumbai attack… talk about being deluded.
http://www.hotklix.com/?ref=content/152704&in_showcasep
@ parth
i am not a native of mumbai but have made it my home for 3 years now. i do love this city’s spirit but i can see that waning now. and its turning into anger. perhaps that may explain why i did not feel the same way and why it feels different this time around. i was here when the train blasts took place. that time i was worried, tensed and frustrated. i am from jaipur and my parents live there. they escaped the blasts narrowly. even then i did not get this feeling. just feel different this time probably due to the manner in which the attack was carried out. its like “woh mere ghar mein ghuske mujhe maar ke chale gaye, aur main kuch na kar saka”. it is this feeling of helplessness that is making me depressed.
@ Anonymous:
what you say is true and guess its time for people to wake up and smell the coffee. sadly, this is unlikely to happen. read India’s history and you will find that it was infighting that led to our downfall. we have not learned anything from it.
What does it mean when we say “terrorists-with-links-to-Pakistan”?
I don’t mean to trivialise the accusations that our government is just about making, but we have a few things to consider:
1. It’s convenient for India to blame the attack on Pakistan – Internal security collapse, amateur intelligence services, post 26/11 political infighting, etc don’t paint a rosy picture to the international community. The best way to divert attention from our own shortcomings is to implicate the usual suspect.
If it were truly a well-funded body in Pakistan that had masterminded these attacks, surely the project would have taken into consideration how best to cover their tracks if something untoward happened (like one of theirs being apprehended and then squealing).
In this scenario, really, how hard is it to imagine that part of their preparation involved ensuring that all clues leading back to Pakistan are tenuous? – This could involve hiring indian-origin mercenaries, forging documents, fabricating evidence, etc. The Indian assertions about pakistani links may have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
2. In this age of globalization, how can you pigeonhole a nationality onto someone with confidence? The attackers could have been born and brought up in Britain, fed a healthy dose of anti-india propaganda (by agencies pakistani or not), and could subscribe to a belief system that’s anti-India, without ever having set foot in Pakistan. Communication today renders these geographical borders redundant. If by ‘Pakistan’, we refer to sentiments traditionally ascribed to ISI or to terrorist groups within Pakistan, that’s understandable, but citizenship is a tougher call.
@Anirban
The Pakistani Media has been of great help to us. In these trying times they have brought some comic relief into the frame. I couldn’t but laugh at their reporting. Someone tells me that the news channels like the one you have mentioned is the India TV equivalent of Pakistan. That clears all doubts. The essence here is COMIC relief.
BTW, I hear some pakistani politicians have started spreading the message that India wants to conquer Pakistan. Yeah Right. With the present state of Pakistan, no one would want to have it for free.
Hi Arnab,
This is the first time I’m writing in, though I’ve been a regular reader of your blog so far. I can’t even begin to describe what I’m feeling post this latest carnage. And I say latest carnage, because let’s face it – hasn’t it happened before? So why the fuss now? Simple really – because it affected rich and prominent people. People with a relatively high standard of living – like you and me. Granted, the immensity and scale of these blasts and the sheer audacity with which they were executed is alarming, but I have a few relevant questions and observations.
Number one: Why wasn’t this sort of indignation present when we had the blasts way back in 93? Or the train blasts just recently. Because it didn’t affect the prominent voices in society? Just because blasts happened at The Taj and the Oberoi – snug havens away from the dirt and grime and terror for gosh sakes! Who travels in trains – not us right – so why bother. The media played its role too – so much attention was focused on the Taj and Oberoi coverage, there was hardly any coverage of the shooting at CST. Which was equally grimy.
All I can say is the hypocrisy post this incident has left me rather disgusted. Reams of newsprint were devoted to socialites who agonised over how terribly unsafe they felt and some even used it for blatant self promotion. As an example, one woman called Nisha Jamwal – wrote an article on the Taj as being a haven full of architectural masterpieces or some such. The first two pages of course were about her experiences living there – ‘my father had a suite there’ accompanied with a brilliantly coloured photograph of guess who – Ms Jamwal herself in the Rajput suite along with ‘dear friend’ Shilpa Shetty. News channels weren’t any less. They had panel discussions by the plenty – usual suspects like Mahesh Bhatt, Alyque Padamsee weren’t the only ones to bask in the limelight. At one such do, I spotted ‘V’ anchor Luke Kenny, Kunal Kohli, etc. I mean the swish set were going all out here – to promenade, bask in the attention – even if it’s for such a macabre event. I mean, even insurance guys are suddenly advertising aggressively. I’m reminded of vultures…
For people like us, it was a double whammy. When the train blasts happened I was afraid – because my parents still travel by train – even my husband catches the train on his way back from office. And we’re affected this time too – because we used to frequent the Taj quite often.
So when people show anger and indignation these days isn’t it really selfish in a way? If we had a stronger reaction back then – couldn’t we have prevented something of this magnitude? Before, especially, before both our nations became nuclear states and made the situation so much more complicated.
Even this time what will happen? What can candlelit vigils do? India has been a soft state for far too long. Look what happened to POTA in the name of minority appeasement. Afzal Guru must be laughing in his cell. And Arundhati Roy certainly isn’t saying anything now.
I have a few other observations. Politicians are crowing and trying to outdo themselves in heaping honours on Karkare, Salaskar and Kamte. They are calling them martyrs. Now a martyr is someone who selflessly sacrifices himself for the country. I have a very simple question – did the three gentlemen actually do that? I think they were just killed point blank without even realising the fact that these guys were terrorists. Which means that they didn’t even have time to retaliate. Which again means they were victims rather than martyrs. The heroes of the day were in my opinion the local police team who killed one terrorist and caught the other – who’s now singing like a bird. And this was in spite of substandard equipment. One constable/ASI Omble died in that encounter – how come nobody’s talking about him as a martyr. Is it because he was too low down in the police force. Or is it a plan by one political party to score brownie points – ‘see these villanous hindutwa forces were targetting Karkare last weren’t they?’. Even now there are posters of the three ‘martyrs’ put up by the congress and the youth congress all over the city. Ahhh, the vultures again.
The Israeli press was quite critical of how the entire operation was conducted it seems. They wanted to send a commando force of their own but India turned them down. And quite rightly so – its never a good idea to allow foreign troops on your soil. But there was a grain of truth in the criticism too. Not about how our forces combated the terrorists – I think the NSG has done us proud – and it’s very easy for somebody to comment from so far off – besides I don’t think they could’ve done any better. But the point about how when the terrorists struck the local police force was unprepared and the NSG commandos took long to arrive was valid. Where am I going here – you may as well ask. Well there was some time delay between when the terrorists struck and when the NSG was called into action right? A friend of ours has this theory that had these senior officials like Karkare not been killed, the Mumbai ATS would still be in charge of this operation. And if you think the body count was hight just imagine what a disaster that would have been.
@Rakhee
I accept your point that the indignation now is higher because it has affected the rich.However, something that I must point out here is that the TAJ is not just another 5-star hotel. it is a symbol of a snub to the pre-independance british rule. If you look into the history of the Taj, it celebrated 100 years in 2003.
“Jamshetji Nusserwanji Tata, founder of the Tata Group, opened the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower, the first Taj property, on December 16, 1903. He was inspired to open the grand luxury hotel after an incident involving racial discrimination at the Watson’s Hotel in Mumbai, where he was refused entry as the hotel did not permit Indians. Hotels which accepted only European guests were common across British India. Jamsetji Tata traveled to London, Paris, Berlin and Dusseldorf to get the best materials and pieces of art, furniture and interior artifacts for his hotel. Due to its prime location, traditional architecture and massive size, this hotel soon gained the status of the most iconic hotel in Mumbai.”
He dipped into the last penny available to get this hotel built. People laughed at him for harboring such thoughts. But, the TAJ still stands as a symbol of snub to the British.
But, yes people have suddenly woken up because the rich and the high and mighty have been affected.
The common people are wide awake….they just don’t know what to do.
As a disclaimer….the above quote was taken from Wikipedia
Rahul Gandhi was partying after Mumbai crisis
Even before the tears of Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan’s mother could dry up, Congress General Secretary and heir apparent Rahul Gandhi went partying with his pals at a farmhouse on Delhi’s outskirts.
See newspaper clipping here:
http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2008/12/rahul-in-party-mood-after-mumbai-crisis.html
@Anonymous
“Let us look at a good man like Hemant Karkare. As an ATS officer, he dedicated his life to defending the country. But the politicians, media, and the secularists found it necessary to create a “balance” by looking for the fictitious “Hindu terrorist”
Nice try Anonymous. Trying to spin Hemant Karkare’s death as a Hindu agenda. But you know, we have seen through you and your likes. Unfortunately he had to take a bullet to unmask your evil agenda.
“What has secularism given us ?” – How about stopping hatred engulfing this country into a spiral of uncontrollable violence ? How about respect and dignity and honor for a fellow human being ? How about as an Indian you can held your head high and say we are better than them?
You know when in times like these, you trying to carve a political agenda to cause further divide and destruction it just makes me want to throw up.
Dipesh wrote:
“How about stopping hatred engulfing this country into a spiral of uncontrollable violence ? How about respect and dignity and honor for a fellow human being ? How about as an Indian you can held your head high and say we are better than them”?
Dear Dipesh
How about dealing with the problems first.
You want respect and dignity and honor for a fellow human being ?
Cant get any worse than this. The Islam-ists control 80% of the flesh trade and prostitution business (90% of the prostitutes though are Hindu women). Crores of dollars from this market is pumped directly into Jihad. How about exterminating the flesh trade Islamist mafia.
You cannot “unite a nation” by bending down on your knees to those who believe that a Kafir nation does not have the right to exist.
Use the measurements of judgement you use, fairly to all sides of the argument. Then identify the biggest hinderance to the goal of a “united equitable India”.
Then tell me what needs to be tackled first.
You know, “Anonymous”, I really have to ask where you get your 80%-90% figures from. Not trying to let anyone off the hook here, & the Taliban & other terrorist groups really do make money from the opium trade, but — sorry to say — your numbers sound completely made up.
Wafa
The Indian Jihadi makes its money from 3 sources-
1. Flesh trade and organized prostitution of women (part of global crime syndicates)
2. Da-awa money (charity) donated by the average non-combatant Muslim masses.
3. Hawala donations from global Islamic groups, after good results (= lots of Hindus killed) are shown during communal riots or terror attacks.
The international Jihadi groups make most of their money from-
1. Donations and from Oil-rich Islamic nations and individuals
2. Da-awa money (charity) from average Muslims.
3. Crime syndicates (which includes drug trade, human trafficking, arms smuggling)
See Wafa,
@ wafa
The selfish politicians in India (including even BJP ones), are aware of the Jihadi infrastructure, but are afraid to touch it. The pseudo-secular parties though actively feed it, to benefit from it.
The stakes are quite high and the money is immense, enough to buy important, but corrupt people at all levels.
Do you think that India could not kill Dawood or Hafeez Mohammed if it wanted to?
@ anonymous: whilst your knowledge is stunning, do you mind quoting a source for your 80 90 percent statements, and yes, you saying so is not enough
It is a routine.
India accuse Pakistan
Pakistan scoffs at the accusation
India complains to world community, some agree and some nod.
Life goes on, till another attack.
Wow… long scroll down to the ‘leave a reply’ section. With all due respect to everyone… I am just saddened by our own hypocrisy. Yesterday there was a large turnout at Gateway of India. Mumbaikars marched and shouted slogans in a peaceful rally. Everyone wanted to get their nation back from the stupid politicians.
People cited Achutanandan, R.R Patil, Deshmukh. They cited the eternal war of votes between BJP and Congress. This is nice. This is good…
What saddens me though is the fact that the same people lived on peacefully when another vile politician was throwing out north Indians from Maharashtra. Given this situation, are we to infer that the ‘common man’ will only act on selfish interest? As long as the ‘common man’s’ personal interest is being fulfilled, there is no need for him to raise voice… even if that means that someone else’s rights are being trampled upon…?
I think the most important thing here is to zero in on the enemy that lies within. If we can’t rid ourselves of people like Raj Thackrey, we are giving excuses to the international press to go on and blame “domestic rogue elements”.
@Rakhee,
Exactly my thoughts too … and had even left a comment earlier mentioning similar points about our double standards.
While i dont even want to touch upon the hypocrites out there trying to garner as much media footage, i genuinely feel bad about the constables of the Mumbai Police and Hawaldar Gajendra Singh of the NSG.
Its almost like the Media has been ignoring their sacrifice deliberately.
No one wants to take away anything from the sacrifice of Messrs Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar. Even if they did not die in an encounter they were atleast out there, leading their men from the front. That they died in an ambush is secondary. They might have chosen some safer haven from where to run their command. But they were all out there together, on the ground. So lets not belittle their deaths.
But i genuinely feel that the sacrifice of the other security men killed has been belittled.
Its a double whammy because these constables and hawaldars come from the not so well off families. So their families will feel this loss even more.You know, Modi might be playing pathetic politics with his 1 Crore reward.
But i genuinely feel that if all this money is given to the families of the constables, it will atleast help them live their lives a lot better.
And Abhishek,
I do not think even one socialite out there in front of the camera has any idea about the history of the Taj as a snub to the British. They are all out there bcos their favourite hangout for daaru and chai has been destroyed. Ofcourse they cannot go to the roadside vendor int he meantime to have vada-paav right. And u can clearly see that anguish in their eyes.
@ RR
I am certainly not trying to belittle anyone’s death. Any death is a solemn, grevious occasion. All I am saying is that the three were just shot point blank before they could even retaliate. Or even before they could realise who they were up against. Which just makes them victims rather than martyrs. Like so many other people who were shot down mercilessly that day. Yet do you see anybody else in the papers?
Secondly, I have heard this before so I am going to react to this – don’t you think this entire ‘leading from the front’ angle is a little foolhardy? A general in any army – and especially the head of ATS should not have been leading from the front. The terrorists obviously got a shot in the arm when it was realised that the Mumbai ATS chief himself had been killed. It may seem very brave and valiant but I repeat – it is extremely foolhardy. That’s only for the movies.
As I maintain – where are the honours for the police and army constable respectively who died fighting the terrorists?
Thirdly, in India we have this tendency to eulogise the dead. Why not salute the living – what about the fearless men who survived the encounter with the terrorists and even managed to capture one of them alive?
In the specific case of Karkare, the Congress has definitely tried to sieze on this opportunity to denounce the hindutva forces who were targeting him just before he died. Well well, no prizes for guessing who got him in the end right.
I see you appreciate my point about he socialites.
As an aside even I don’t approve of Modi trying to derive political mileage by making a speech in front of the Oberoi while the siege was on. This time, he definitely bit off more than he could chew.
@Rakhee
I’m just happy that the indignation’s still there, hypocrisy be damned.
@ Silenceofcenturies
Exactly the point I was trying to make to a friend of mine. There are now tens of SMS msgs making round exhorting the Indians/Hindus/Patriots to forward msgs to as many as you can/atleast ten Indians etc. And my friend felt that since the mobile phone user base is so large in this country, AWARENESS is happening.
To test this hypothesis we asked his gardener who carries a cellphone about Mumbai and he knew zilch. He had heard that there was some ‘Galaata’ there, that’s it!
Some of us who are on the net or the Youngistan fellows who hold candle light vigils think that the amount of awareness created now is enough to throw out the corrupt and the inefficient and bring in better guys. Hold on friends, are the literate few who are aware enough to throw out the bad ones? What about the millions like the gardener? And even if you can bring in someone else, will they be different?
Politicians from ages are preventing literacy in this country because by and large awareness, activism and patriotism have largely (though not entirely) been middle-class concepts. So while in our own way we must forward the sensible SMSs and debate on blof-forums, we cannot assume that this is going to bring about seminal change.
Also to all the arm-chair activists (fingers-at-keyboard or thumbs-on-cellphone types): Maybe we should all do something more physical. The kids holding candle light vigil at mumbai yesterday have shown the way…If we could all come out in similar strengths our voices would be better heard.
(sigh…my friend who forwards SMSs doesn’t want to come out on the streets!)
@ Silenceofcenturies
Exactly the point I was trying to make to a friend of mine. There are now tens of SMS msgs making round exhorting the Indians/Hindus/Patriots to forward msgs to as many as you can/atleast ten Indians etc. And my friend felt that since the mobile phone user base is so large in this country, AWARENESS is happening.
To test this hypothesis we asked his gardener who carries a cellphone about Mumbai and he knew zilch. He had heard that there was some ‘Galaata’ there, that’s it!
Some of us who are on the net or the Youngistan fellows who hold candle light vigils think that the amount of awareness created now is enough to throw out the corrupt and the inefficient and bring in better guys. Hold on friends, are the literate few who are aware enough to throw out the bad ones? What about the millions like the gardener? And even if you can bring in someone else, will they be different?
Politicians from ages are preventing literacy in this country because by and large awareness, activism and patriotism have largely (though not entirely) been middle-class concepts. So while in our own way we must forward the sensible SMSs and debate on blof-forums, we cannot assume that this is going to bring about seminal change.
Also to all the arm-chair activists (fingers-at-keyboard or thumbs-on-cellphone types): Maybe we should all do something more physical. The kids holding candle light vigil at mumbai yesterday have shown the way…If we could all come out in similar strengths our voices would be better heard.
(sigh…my friend who forwards SMSs doesn’t want to come out on the streets!)
I am first time commenter here. But every time there is an incident like this, I come running to your blog to read what you have to say.
I think there is one point which I have not heard any one discuss about yet. It is in the interest of the Pakistani state to prick India hard enough to make it confrontational. Pakistan is loosing the war as well as territory on its west along the Afghan border to the tribals. The tribals are troubling Pakistan because of the presence of Pakistan Army in the region and because of Pakistan’s support to the NATO forces against the Taleban. Making India confrontational is good reason for Pakistan to divert its forces to the Indian border and save itself on its west. If not troubled, the tribals have shown in the past that they are OK to be part of the Pakistani state. The tribals have also shown in the past that they are ready to fight with India on behalf of Pakistan if required. Hence, Pakistan is making India confrontational in order to keep these tribals in control and divert them towards India. The sad part is, US and its people in the past have been blind to this, or have conveniently ignored India and encouraged Pakistan and sided with it.
Something tells me that the ppl calling the ATS chief as foolhardy now for being on the ground that day, wud have been calling him a coward had he not been on the ground with his men that day.
@ RR
Look I was only making a point about how ‘leading from the front’ isn’t exactly the best way to deal with hardcore terrorists. It is practically demoralising for the troops under a leader too if he dies prematurely right?
Secondly, there is absolutely no reason for you to theorise about whether I would be calling him a coward if he didn’t go on the ground. Please leave that thinking to me.
Please keep in mind that I’m not blaming him for anything. He was merely a victim who’s being used now as a pawn to score political brownie points. That’s all. And if he hadn’t ‘led from the front’ like you said, he would still be alive. Which is much more important to me.
See this is what I mean when I say the we have a tendency to eulogise our dead. Did you even read anything else I had written? I know I did – I went and read all your posts – even the link to Gaurav Kalra’s article – which btw was very well written. My thoughts exactly.
Anyhow, this is my opinion and I have every right to express it without other people insinuating what I would feel in a different scenario. I’m now treating this chapter as closed.
@Rakhee
Chapter closed …Fair enough. The insinuations werent specific in any case and thats why the message wasnt addressed to you specifically. Anyway a digression from the main issue.
@ Siva Chandra,
Here are some thoughts –
Why do you think the US has sided with Pakistan so far ?
Do you realize how geographically and strategically close Pakistan is to Russia, Iran and China .. all of whom are among the biggest challengers to US in the world.
And Pakistan is the only ally in this region through which the US can exert some influence. Or atleast thats how the geo-political situation had been some time back.
If Russia supported India till some years back then that was primarily to act as a counterweight to the US influence through Pak.
US needs Pakistan. Its not as if US has any special love for the country or the people.
But of course post 9-11, post Afghan invasion, post Iraq invasion the US has also realized that some of the truths it was ignoring so far cannot be conveniently done so.
Do not forget the simmering tensions between the US and Pak just some months back when Bush ordered unilateral strikes inside Pak, with or without their Army’s appraisal.
The fact of the matter is that India refuses to pull its weight in International forums. Partly also because China acts as a significant counterweight whenever India decided to screw Pak internationally.
And no Western govt has the guts currently to piss off China. And they really dont care if India is pissed or not. Thats the uncomfortable truth about our International standing.
And dont believe Condoleeza Rice when she says she has come down to show some crap solidarity with us. Behind closed doors there wud be enough of a strong message to India to not escalate tensions with Pak bcos that would screw up all of US’s plans in this region.
Looks like INDIANS realize who are the main culprits
http://rishtrader.blogspot.com/2008/12/gateway-peace-marchpictures.html
Its now or never!!!!!!
Regards
Rish
My family has had many people who’ve served in one of the three Armed Forces. Mom’s father (my Nana) was in the Army, both of my Naani’s brothers were in the Navy, and my Dad’s an ex-fighter pilot from the IAF. This is an artcle that Papa wrote while we were all in the midst of watching the news. Do read.
—
Half Man Half Boy
The average age of the army man is 23 years.
He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer in the capital of his country, but old enough to die for his country.
He’s a recent school or college graduate; he was probably an average student from one of the Kendriya Vidyalayas, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a rickety bicycle, and had a girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away. He listens to rock and roll or hip -hop or bhangra or gazals and a 155mm howitzer.
He is 5 or 7 kilos lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting the insurgents or standing guard on the icy Himalayas from before dawn to well after dusk or he is at Mumbai engaging the terrorists. He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark. He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must.
He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.
He can march until he is told to stop, or stop until he is told to march.
He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity. His pride and self-respect, he does not lack.
He is self-sufficient.
He has two sets of combat dress: he washes one and wears the other.
He keeps his water bottle full and his feet dry.
He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle. He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own wounds.
If you’re thirsty, he’ll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He’ll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low.
He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands.
He can save your life – or take it, because he’s been trained for both.
He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay, and still find ironic humor in it all.
He has seen more suffering and death than he should have in his short lifetime.
He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed to do so.
He feels every note of the Jana Gana Mana vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to ’square-away’ those around him who haven’t bothered to stand, remove their hands from their pockets, or even stop talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful. Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom.
Beardless or not, he is not a boy.
He is your nation’s Fighting Man that has kept this country free and defended your right to Freedom. He has experienced deprivation and adversity, and has seen his buddies falling to bullets and maimed and blown.
And he smiles at the irony of the IAS babu and politician reducing his status year after year and the unkindest cut of all, even reducing his salary and asking why he should get 24 eggs a week free! And when he silently whispers in protest, the same politician and babu aghast, suggest he’s mutinying!
Wake up citizens of India! Let’s begin discriminating between the saviours of India and the traitors!
– Flt. Lt. Rajiv Tyagi
Two additions to the post :
1) SUSPEND ALL INTERNATIONAL AID
Pakistan is close to bankruptcy and is dependent on foreign aid to import basic foodstuff for its people. In fact it was recently bailed out by a $7 billion loan from the IMF. If India pressurises the IMF, World Bank, Asian Development Bank etc to stop all aid to Pakistan until they hand over all terror suspects, the Pakistanis will be brought to their knees.
2) BLOCK THE INDUS WATERS
Pakistan is dependent on the waters of the Indus for most of its agriculture. Now that we have a strong case for declaring Pakistan as a “safe haven for terrorism”, we should use this to declare the Indus water treaty null and void. We should threaten to divert the waters of the Indus from Punjab to Rajasthan via irrigation canals unless Pakistan complies.
waiting for a greatbong special comment on the the amazing Pakistani media (Mr. Zaid, the ANALyst)…
How i get the feeling that this “Anonymous” guy is ‘Rishi Khujur’
I dont know why bur his words give me a deja vu feelings… 🙂
A very well written post GB.
the comments are excellent and very intellectual this time.
Thanks,
Tarzan
See how Pakistani media is looking at the Mumbai Attack
http://www.hotklix.com/?ref=content/152704
nice post dear….but i think that even after implementing all that you have said…there will still be no effect on pakistan
@RR
Hey, I totally agree with your view. Even I made the same observation. I was addressing 2 different points.
1) The attack on Taj is viewed as an attack on a symbol of India. Say, for example like the India Gate. It is of no use for day-to-day life of a common man but stands as a homage to martyrs of World War II. It is the pride of our country. Similarly, for the Taj. A point to note here is that the attacks on Oberoi, Leopold cafe were diversionary tactics. The main aim was the Taj.
2) Coming back to your original point. Yes, the “newly-born” nationalists do surprise me. Suddenly, we want an all-out action against the politicians because they failed us. WOW!! How convenient. There have been so many security lapses in the past that I have lost count. Is the life of a common middle-class man who died in Jaipur/Delhi worthless?
Please do not misunderstand me. I am all for putting pressure on the politicians to make them accountable. This is the best that we can do. The urban elite and the middle-class is a minority in this country. It is the rural population which selects the MPs. Come next elections and the whole pie-chart for caste equations and and arithmetic will be out. Attack or no attack. A muslim will vote for a muslim. A dalit will vote for a dalit and a gujjar will vote for a gujjar. So much for unity.
What pisses me off are the candles that are burnt and the so-called spirit of mumbai/delhi/Jaipur. Time for symbolisms has long passed by. If people are really interested they should put pressure on the government by dharnas/protest marches.
The optimist in me still gives me the confidence that if anyone can deliver with some honesty then it has to be MMS. Probably the only politician with some integrity and honesty left to adorn the parliament. He is spineless but when given the freedom to take his decisions, he is good. His honeymoon period has begun.
a) His government can’t do worse than this. Any action will be positive
b) No political party in this climate will have the guts to object to his strong actions.
c) Congress is guaranteed to be booted out of power. Make full use of the last few months and put irreversible changes into place.
Hope this dream at least comes true.
Why is Mumbai police chief Hassan Gaffur so keen to totally rule out local involvement?
Totally agree with the point of Pakistan being jealous of India!
@GB:
“To India’s advantage, this time the terrorists didn’t just massacre Hindus (whom nobody in the world cares for) but they marked out Westerners and inflicted unspoken tortures on Jewish hostages.”
You mean massacred “Indians” I think and not “Hindus”. And the only people who need to care are “Indians”. We need the world’s help to combat terrorism but we need to take care of our own.
@ on Aanchal Tyagi’s blog
Its a touching piece and shows the system’s apathy towards our forces. That is why I had said somewhere, that we should consider ourselves lucky that people are still willing to join the armed forces. I salute all those who have laid their lives for their country and for those who are willing.
Lets declare a people’s war on Islamic terrorism. We need to use internet to make it issue #1 for the whole world.
Islamic terrorists cannot be defeated unless victim countries/people join hands and wage a war against them. Therefore, if India wants to fight Pakistan sponsored terrorism we will need support of US, UK, Israel, France, Russia with us.
Fighting terror and keeping the citizens safe should be the number 1 priority of responsible states and their governments. Lets put so much pressure on the policymakers that they are forced to root out this rot!
So lets make our voice heard!!
Below is the list of very important news channels, news papers and websites that we should focus. Lets make sure every news and article related to terrorism in India and elsewhere remains on the front page. On each and every related story – Leave your comments, discuss, tell them what you want, tell the world how they are killing innocents and what is on stake.
(Please let me know other website that should be included in this list.)
US Media:
– http://www.CNN.com <– Covering 26/11 everyday.
– http://www.cbsnews.com <– Covering 26/11 everyday.
– http://www.msnbc.com <– Recently started to give more space to 26/11 related news.
– http://www.abcnews.com <– We need to focus this one.. Coverage decreasing.
– http://www.foxnews.com <– Covering 26/11
– http://www.nytimes.com <– Critically important. 26/11 coverage decreasing. More clicks required here.
– http://www.washingtonpost.com <– Critically important. 26/11 coverage decreasing. More clicks required here.
– http://www.HuffingtonPost.com <– A very active pro-Obama community. Lots of coverage initially, but it’s low now.
– http://www.Newsvine.com <– Very active and important website. We need to focus on this.
– http://www.USAToday.com
– http://www.wsj.com
– http://www.Politico.com
– http://www.ChicagoTribune.com
– http://www.LATimes.com
– Christian Science Monitor
– http://www.Time.com
British Media:
– http://www.bbcnews.com
– http://www.telegraph.co.uk
– http://www.Guardian.co.uk
– http://www.Scottsman.co.uk
– http://www.TimesOnline.co.uk
– http://www.SkyNews.com
Isreali Media:
– http://www.Haaretz.com <– Lots of coverage of 26/11. We need Israeli support, they’ve strongest lobby in Washigton.
We need to make sure islamic terrorism remains the issue no #1 in victim counties. Lets target important news media that
US Media:
– CNN <– Covering 26/11 everyday.
– CBS News <– Covering 26/11 everyday.
– MSNBC <– Recently started to give more space to 26/11 related news.
– ABC News <– We need to focus this one.. Coverage decreasing.
– Fox News <– Covering 26/11
– New York Times <– Critically important. 26/11 coverage decreasing. More clicks required here.
– Washington Post <– Critically important. 26/11 coverage decreasing. More clicks required here.
– Huffington Post <– A very active pro-Obama community. Lots of coverage initially, but it’s low now.
– Newsvine <– Very active and important website. We need to focus on this.
– USA Today
– Wall Street Journal
– Politico
– Chicago Tribune
– LA Times
– Christian Science Monitor
– Time Magazine
British Media:
– BBC News
– The Telegraph
– Guardian
– Scottsman
– Times Online
– Sky News
Isreali Media:
– Haaretz <– Lots of coverage of 26/11. We need Israeli support.
http://indiawillprevail.blogspot.com/2008/12/we-will-unite-we-will-defeat-them.html
Here’s a nice article from Israel’s top newspaper , and thankfully, not in Hebrew…
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1043776.html
@aylamrin
Added to the list: http://indiawillprevail.blogspot.com/2008/12/05-dec-2008.html
Guys, please support. Please forward the message to your friends.
You know west does not care much about India.
So we will need thousands of hits per day to keep Mumbai stories on front page. We will need to run a info war against terrorism and force policymakers in victim countries to act upon it with resolve.
Get Local,
The Mumbai Police Chief, Hasan Ghafoor, is lying when he is denying that the Jihadis had any local support.
See this news report:
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1211593&pageid=0
Mumbai terror probe suggests extensive local support network in India
Josy Joseph, Friday, December 05, 2008
Links seen between Mumbai attack and raid on IISC in 2005
NEW DELHI: Investigators have fanned out across India to check out several leads available from the Mumbai attacks. The information gathered so far indicates the existence of a massive secretive network with tentacles in Delhi, Kolkata, Bangalore, Dhaka, and elsewhere.
In Delhi and Kolkata, investigators are trying to find out who bought the SIM cards that were later recovered from the slain terrorists in Mumbai. Sources said the Kolkata police have identified at least two youths who may have bought SIM cards in West Bengal. They are believed to have bought the cards from three different places using a fake voter’s identity card in the name of Hossain Ur Rahman. In Delhi, investigators are looking at shops in Karol Bagh from where the SIM cards were bought.
The jigsaw being put together suggests the terror attacks mounted by Pakistan-based youths had strong support from a homegrown network. The same network may have been involved in recent strikes. Though it is not a cohesive group, the network
comprises several former Simi (Students Islamic Movement of India) members with a strong base in Hyderabad and other parts of South India. The group has deep linkages with the Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has since denied involvement in the attacks. This group is influenced by Taliban and al-Qaeda ideology.
Suspicions about this group, which for some time has been calling itself Indian Mujahideen, have been firmed up by links emerging between the latest Mumbai attacks
and the 2005 attack on the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore.
The networks of Shahid Bilal, a Hyderabad resident who was killed in Pakistan some time ago, and Riazuddin Nasir, his close associate who was arrested in Karnataka, had joined hands with a faction of Simi and other like-minded youths to create a network of India’s most formidable terror supporters. This group is believed to have carried out several bombings in Indian cities and assisted in the attacks on the IISc, mostly under the banner of Indian Mujahideen. The Mumbai attacks were carried out under the banner of Deccan Mujahideen.
Sources said Abu Hamza, who escaped after the December 28, 2005, attack on the IISc, was a key motivator for the 10-member terror group that attacked Mumbai. They were convinced by Hamza that it was easy to fool the Indian police and escape back to Pakistan, according to arrested terrorist Ajmal Kasab, now in the custody of the Mumbai Police.
Investigators believe that the Lashkar-e-Taiba’s Dhaka-based operatives obtained the Indian SIM cards and supplied them for use during the attacks. The terrorists were also provided with SIM cards from Austria and the US. Besides, several GPS systems and a Thuraya satellite phone were in the possession of the terrorists, according to a source.
The investigators are also combing through several leads pointing to the possible involvement of the underworld, especially smuggling gangs, in organising logistical support for the terror group. The customs department has for the past few months been investigating the massive smuggling of diesel and other items by a group of Dawood Ibrahim henchmen, especially one led by a Colaba-based customs clearing agent. His son and the son’s employees are being investigated.
As of now, the most noticeable challenge for the investigators is to find out the extent of local support made available to the terrorists. “We still haven’t made a breakthrough,” said a senior official. He said unless the local contacts are unearthed, it would be difficult to get at the full truth behind the conspiracy.
probably the most analytical and tothepoint opinion ive read so far on these attacks! btw some newspaper in india printed that we should always think in terms of ‘WWID?’ (What Would Israel Do?)
A lady has cancer. It is no longer in early stages, but it can still be treated, and with will, determination and discipline, the patient may survive.
However, the doctor is too afraid of telling his patient about her condition. He says its a cold, and keeps prescribing
dispirin and a few ‘feel good’ drugs. He believes this is in her best interest, as if she realises her true problem, she may be oversome with grief.
But the patient slowly deteriorates. She suspects her diagnosis is not correct, and requests the doctor to review his conclusions. The doctor adamantly refuses to reveal the truth.
The pateint dies a painful death. The doctor reveals her true condition to her grieving husband. The husband asks why the truth was not told in the first place? Then she would have had a fighting chance to live.
The doctor shrugs and gets on with his life in apathy and nonchalence. There is anotehr cancer patient he has to administer dispirin to.
One way to control this terror is to disrupt the Dawaa (charity) supply chain – that links the silent supporters of Jihad with the Violent; Pakistan with the rest of the Ummah.
Pakistan is the ummah’s instrument of aggression against Hindu India.
Jihad is the holiest obligation in Islam, mandatory for every muslim.
It is not possible for a Arab oil baron or a Indonesian doctor to participate in Jihad, physically. They taken an easier alternative making donations (Dawaa) to charities that finance Jihad. Pakistan, Sudan and the Indian believer are the ummah’s front for Jihad.
The Pakistanis get the money and are obligated to produce regular results.
The glory of Mumbai blasts belong to the Ummah, (not just to Pakistan).
Everyone who contributed to Dawaa is pleased that his money is at work fulfilling his obligation.
@ Golda Meir.
I don’t doubt he is lying… I am just wondering WHY is he in such a mad rush to rule out local involvement. Why can’t he say he doesnt know yet?
You may wish to read my post CIVIL OBEDIENCE at http://24belvedereestate.blogspot.com/
I have been a silent reader of your blog plus the comments that are posted here.There is a lot that has been said and written on the terrorist attack that took place in Mumbai.
People have experianced multitute of emotions from shock, rage, grief empathy etc.Each of us have our own way of dealing with these emotions.
I just want to know ” How can I contribute to improve the situation”. Been away from home for 12 years, I am a culprit too as I have never voted in the election or taken it with seriousness that it deserves. I can look for excuses but reckon we are beyond that stage now.
Lot of innocent lives were lost, we can never replace them.As someone pointed out some are more precious than others, and that is a sad relaity of our society. Media will not stop focussing on the wealthy or the social elite who have been impacted.As a rich cousin of mine pointed out ” now they, as in terrorists came into our living room, so we need to do something!”..sad but true as few raved and raged when Mumbai train bombings took place.
I would really like to help it can be in raising some substantial amounts for the unsung waiters at Leopold cafe or the poor constables who lost their lives.I know else they will be lost in the system and their families will have to suffer even more.
I do not want to start a debate or be corrected grammatically or factually.Would be good if someone can point me in the right direction.
The other issue that haunts me is how our undeserving politicians have so much security and I can only salute our armed forces, police, NSG etc for not turning around in frustration and going berserk on these useless gits they are meant to protect.
If enough people voice their concern and anger, can we change the system where 100 plus commandoes do not get assigned to likes of Mayawati?
Hoping for some constructive suggestions…
hi wafa !!
i totally empathise with your emotions and feelings when you wrote to “mumbaikar”. i am a recent reader here (stumbled onto this blog after the mumbai attacks). I went through similar anguish over 3 years ago when bombs struck closer home (in delhi actually). I too tried to justify my belief in a bankrupt ideology by coming up with lies & illogical excuses. I now realize that I was doing this more to convince myself than to deceive others.
my favorite chocolate-hero (shahrukh khan) said yesterday that “there are two korans – one from allah and one from mullah. Nowhere in koran does it say kill people. The paradise stories are not in koran”. Such statements are disingenuous (at best) and dangerous too. If only SRK learns to read and understand Arabic (which he does not know one bit), then he can read the koran. He will be forced to admit that allah’s koran and mullah’s koran are identical. But I think that SRK does not have the courage to face reality. So he will keep fooling himself and fooling others, by not reading the koran. So, srk will keep pretending to himself (and the world) that all is fine and dandy.
in your comment, you asked what can you do. I cannot force you to think but I will tell you what I did.
To tell you the truth, i left islam about 3 years ago – after a lot of initial denial, careful deliberation and difficult introspection. It finally dawned on me.
I am a practising hindu now. So I definitely believe in god (ishwar), but I don’t believe in allah. So I am happy as leaving islam does not mean automatically becoming an atheist (which is hard for me).
I am not afraid of any repercussions, threats or fear of imaginary things (allah’s wrath/hell-fire punishments… hehehe) etc.
You can read my personal testimonial here (and FFI founder ali sina’s patient replies to many of my points):
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/AasmaRiaz51111.htm
cheers !!!
aasma riaz
From the most beautiful city in India (C-H-A-N-D-I-G-A-R-H….yaaay). 🙂
Oh, no Asma. She is not right to call herself a Mumbaikar. It is Haram in Islam to aasociate yourself with anything else other thank Islam. So Wafa are u a Kafir, and please don’t teach me Islam. Being a born Muslim i probably know the lies that you might want to tell me.
So tell us Wafa, what are u Muslim or mumbaikar?
Looks like a NIA is going to come into existence. Lets wait and see whether this one is a failure like all other security agencies in our country or do we really mean business now.
They couldn’t have done it without the help from within. The people who help them from within are held hostage to them psycologically by their common bond of religion. The ghetto-minded muslims feel victimized by EVERY non-islamic rule they have to follow.
Its very similar to the way slum dwellers pledge allegience to outlaws because their immediate needs are met or the way Christian missionaries win “hearts” of the marginalized masses by showing how scary Hindu gods are and how handsome Jesus Christ looks.
However, the radical jihadi infiltration is most insidious in nature. The other examples pose a problem to law-makers and existing religions by causing destabalization of the society. The islamic terrorism not only causes destabalization of a society, but it seeks to destroy soverignity of a country and the very spirit of the nation using religion as a lethal weapon.
To their luck (radical islamists), no other minority (except a few christian organizations) shouts as loud as a muslim minority in a non-muslim majority.
and the Indian brand of secularism is like music to their ears.
My heart is bleeding as I think of the way Indians are attacked by not just the terrorists, but by the international media and their Indian media slaves while our government continues to be the proverbial absentee parent.