Fransip

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The net has been awash with videos of a certain Yugpurush (whose name I shall not take and dignify him nor to whose videos I shall link to and I request you to do the same ), a Pakistani media personality where he reveals, using powers of deduction that is dazzling in its intellectual brilliance, that the Mumbai attacks were caused by Hindu-Zionist terrorists, a fact that is evidenced from the Hindu red strings they wear (I personally thought they were Jihad Jihad Hota Hain friendship brands which say “We will share the same virgin in heaven”) and the fact that they look like Hindus (evidently, intelligence sources inside India are calling him to give him the inside scoop). According to this media figure, the plan failed because as he puts it with traditional astuteness, since these were Indians, they did not have the “akal” to do the work ( “In ahmakon ne complete disaster kiya isko handle karne mein“)

This man is interesting to me as he represents a unique species—the Pakistani public intellectual. A degree holder in electronics from Pakistan, he is also an expert in world history and economics (as his wiki page says) which puts him one notch below Leonardo De Fidayeen, the legendary Renaissance man from North West Frontier Province who drew up detailed blueprints for the first suicide bomb. And if you thought this man was all brain and no brawn, think again. He spent his youth as a Jihadi fighter in Afghanistan, which is as good a finishing ground you will find for public intellectuals of the aforementioned country,famous for supplying agents of terror throughout the world, an export that leads to the country being dubbed, in the words of Madeline Albright, a global migraine.

In case you thought he is an underappreciated genius, a little research reveals an extensive fan club for this man on social network sites. Several fairly popular Pakistani blogs (again link intentionally not provided) are very sympathetic to his ideas about the evil and stupid nation of India. However some have expressed doubts on some of his other associations. It should be mentioned here that several Pakistani discussion forums consider as Gospel truth the historical facts that Pakistan won Kargil and, hold your breath, the Bangladesh war (even though they were made to sign an instrument of surrender and all) —-so the “truthiness” (apologies to Steven Colbert) of this man’s public pronouncements and the enthusiastic approbation provided to them by the Pakistani online community should not surprise us too much.

However I am still confused. I cannot make sense of all this taunting of India because I am under the impression, because I am told by people like Sambit Bal, that the “people of Pakistan” feel nothing but total brotherly love for Indians but are held back by their politicians.

Every Indian – I was there too – who made the trip came back touched and overwhelmed by the warmth and the affection given to them unconditionally. It confirmed a suspicion that many of us had harboured, but had never had the opportunity to test: that the problems between India and Pakistan, two countries that share languages, food and a culture, have never involved the people. In fact, it is to the contrary: most problems have arisen and festered because people have been kept apart by politics.

Geez who would have thought that there was so much love between the people, given the fact that supporting terrorist activities in India is seen as a populist move by Pakistani governments. Which brings us to the chicken-and-egg question: does the ruling class corrupt the awaam or is it the other way round? Some would point out whether we Indians are acting holier-than-thou expecting the Pakistanis to embrace us while we do not. To these “some” I can say that if ten terrorists sailed from India and spread mayhem in Pakistan, I, at the very least, wouldnt be trying to pass them of as Pakistani terrorists. Even if I am not found jumping up and down saying “We are to blame for all evils in the world”, I would at least maintain an ashamed silence for at least a few days. And one thing else I wouldnt be caught doing— trying to deny what is clearly accepted history. Like crowing about how we defeated China in the Indo-China war.

Finally to stress the difference between the nations, noone in Pakistan would support and endorse Indian crackpot conspiracy theories. However Indians like this “renowned” human rights activist (again not dignified by name) have repeated word for word the Pakistani allegation that it was Hindus and Jews who orchestrated the attack (this has been extensively quoted by Pakistanis as Indian affirmation for their theories) in the process providing the final difference between India and Pakistan—-while Pakistanis, to a man, will go to any length to defend their country’s activities (no matter how ridiculous the defense), some Indians (especially the human rights type) will go to any length to condemn theirs.

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101 thoughts on “Fransip

  1. When I saw this video, I was wondering whether to laugh or to cry. He even described the 9/11 as being done by the Americans themselves and that they were masters in perception management, which India isn’t. Cant disagree with them. However, the Americans must have learnt the same from the Pakis. You just need to see the change in Condi’s statements that were said when she was in India and then when she was in Pakistan. They managed to change her perception faster than a chameleon can change colours.

  2. n did u hear the latest 1 kasab is a sikh..!
    Some people would go to any lengths trying to proove they are visionaries..
    However, whats heartning this time around is the public response.. obviously such voices would be ignored.. with the general public coming strongly against the politicians next would be such visionaries..

  3. Aptly put GB. It is time the unnamed ‘human rights types’ woke up and defended their motherland, at least in their words. Or by keeping their mouths shut.

    ~G

  4. Forgot to mention, Hindus can never display any sort of unity, whatever be the circumstance. I would put it down to providence that India still exists. Look at our history. Each kingdom partnered with some outsider to in ousting the ruler a neighbouring kingdom. We just dont seem to learn anything from our past.

  5. Glad that you highlighted the reaction of the majority of the Pakistani net-savvy populace towards these attacks and Hindus and India …
    Btw .. this is the first time I heard the word “Hindu-Zionist” …

  6. I didn’t get one thing. Why don’t you want to put a link to that (what I would call) an AWESOME video.

    I am going to stop watching any fiction movies or comedy stand up acts. I am getting both from HIS show.

  7. Who the hell is Mr Amrish Mishra….Anyways I was expecting Mr Amar Singh to tell something like, kasab is innocent and was student in some madarsa Hyderabad, India or Lucknow may be

  8. There is blatant misuse of the online media. Noone in India has actually tried to accuse the RSS/Mossad. The news seems to have been planted. There is no such human rights activist or journalist by the name of Amrish Mishra as mentioned on the Human Rights Kerala site. I thought as much and a Google search for the name will tell you the truth. Now I am beginning to doubt whether the site itself is fake. Doing the necessary checks to find out, and will share the same here.

  9. One of my friends told me that the guy claimed that one of the terrorist goes by the name Amar Singh and another is called Hira Lal. Now thats some serious creativity on his part.

  10. I could dig out the number of the person who owns the Human Rights Kerala site from http://whois.domaintools.com/humanrightskerala.com and I’ve asked him to remove the article. He says that he received the same through an e-mail and he simply posted it on to the website.

    In fact, such is the shallowness of some newspapers, that one of the local newspapers in Kerala seems to have simply reprinted this release received by email without checking the identity of the individuals quoted or for the authenticity of the quotes. This prompted the owner of HumanRightsKerala.com to think the stuff is true.

    There is a need to trace the origin of such fake email. It seems to me that the terror groups behind these attacks include a bunch of people who are in charge of creating confusion and shaping perceptions.

  11. The anchor spewing forth alternately in Urdu and English probably makes the intended audience the educated Pakistani. Also given that people invited by TV channels for panel discussions has a strong correlation to the demographic they cater to, the Pakistani people’s forbidden love for India ‘conspiracy theory’ loses a few points. While the Pakistani experts on international affairs have an uncanny ability to predict India’s evidently impending future of chaos and disintegration, the orgasmic delight they take every time they mention this point every few minutes is worth envy. And I wonder how the “Hindu face” theory came into existence. Sure beats all anthropological discoveries. Probably ETs spawned the ‘chosen ones’ while lowly evolution held sway on Earth.

  12. GB, I actually can’t believe that you actually wrote a 839 word article on this mahatma, wasting your time. You didn’t HAVE to write an article to explain that he is a master story teller/fabricator. Even his mother knows it, i guess.

  13. Teta Seetalwad,Arundhati Roy ,Pankaj Mishra and Amitav Ghosh(read New York Times) are legacy of a time when the only good an educated Indian could do was to belittle India.They have a defeatist mentality which wants to pass the development of previous decade or so as an aberration.Agreed most of us are involved in IT and not Rocket science,still we have started believing in ourselves,Indians on whole have started believing that we can build a better future.I used to love Amitav Ghosh’s books but I do not agree to his political views.India has been hurt,raped and mutilated for so long that many of us have come to believe that may be we deserved this,which is so far removed from truth.It is heartening to see that majority of us still care for our motherland,we still care despite of our factious,vile inept political establishments,yet some defeatist traitors give forward theories belittling their own country,their own people.Such traitors should be stripped of Indian citizenship.they are worse than dirt of my India.This vile lot should be used as practice dummy at shooting range for Maharashtra Police(at least they will get some shooting practice,if their .303s do not jam).Speaking of Zaid Hamid,we should feel sympathetic towards the man.He was shot by Russians in Soviet-Afghan war,given a lobotomy and brain replacement using a rat’s a**.(This hypothesis is as much possible as his views about Mumbai attacks).I am not a war monger but India has to take some harsh steps NOW.How long can we keep waiting for USA to do our job,We cannot wait for Obama to eliminate terrorism from Pakistan.Pakistan is a cancer, a cancer which we have to fight,as a Nation.Lets contribute 1000 rs each to get better guns and bullet proof jackets for our police force.It is the time we should proclaim as People of India that we shall not tolerate an iota of mischief by this hell hole of a country named Pakistan.We should place a naval blockade around Karachi port immediately.Pakistan will implode within a week.

  14. @Don Ayan de Marco: No my 839 words was not for this man alone. Had he just been one sideshow I would have let him pass. What warranted the post was the applause for him on Pakistani blogs and communities and how even after this naked show of “public opinion” , people like Sambit Bal try to peddle namby-pamby feel-good of brotherly love which many people (Indians) actually buy.

    @Nimish: Looking at the tone of some of the other articles on the said website and its obvious “slant”, I doubt the innocence of the “I simply posted it on my website”e excuse. I dont know about you but a website owner simply posting something he received on by email without endorsing what it says sounds extremely lame to me (Did he not read what he was uploading on his website?)

  15. while Pakistanis, to a man, will go to any length to defend their country’s activities (no matter how ridiculous the defense), some Indians (especially the human rights type) will go to any length to condemn theirs.

    Leaving apart the “any length” in the latter part of the sentence, I feel that is an advantage India has over a basket-case like Pakistan.

    If a country can give rise to a Micheal Moore/Arundhati Roy and allow them to express their views, even if they sound and , sometimes, are kooky, is a mark of maturity of a nation.

    That is why India will always triumph and, in spite of the supernatural binding powers that religion ostensibly brings, a Pakistan will disintegrate in 24 years.

    Hades
    The Times of Bullshit

  16. Yup the version sounds very shady to me. I am trying to dig out where I can report this. But the point is that it is a planted story and it would be wrong to use it as the basis to explain the differences between the two countries.

  17. Pakistani media is fun, in fact its been like this for ever. My Dad who was a young recruit in 71, while sitting more than 50Kms inside West Pakistan and Indian infantry a further 20Kms ahead, used to listen to Pakistan radio. Which provided gory details of how Indian Army was getting decimated in East Pakistan and victory was close. Runa Laila used to sing songs about how Padma’s water will run red Indian blood, and how Amritsar was about to fall. All the while he sitting deep inside Pakistani punjab was looking for some action with no Pakistanis in sight. And they surrendered after one week.

    The Paki media should be treated with the same empathy as a retarded child. They don’t know what they are doing they shouldn’t be made fun of.

  18. Called up the Police and the ATS and informed them about it saying it’s worth tracing the origin of such fake press releases. I hope they got what I said as it didn’t seem so.

  19. @Burning with Rage_ashish: to contribute 1000Rs. Everyone is ready to donate? But how to donate?? Also i doubt the police who died will get the compensation. The politicians will roll that money too. We need to make sure the money reaches the Marty’s family.

    The cop who knew no fear
    Thanks to Asi Tukaram Omble, at least one terrorist was captured alive

    The two terrorists were armed with kalashnikov assault rifles and hand grenades; he carried just a walkie-talkie. there was no way assistant sub-inspector (asi) tukaram omble, 48, could have survived the encounter. But before dying, he ensured that at least one of the 26/11 a terrorist was caught alive.
    Omble was asked by his senior to take up position on marine drive on Wednesday night, after the news of firings at Leopold café, oberoi and taj hotels came in. around 12.45 am, he got an alert on his walkie-talkie that two terrorists had hijacked a skoda car and were heading for girgaum chowpatty. Just minutes later, the skoda whizzed past him.
    Omble jumped on to his two-wheeler and chased the car. A team from db marg police station was setting up a naka bandi at the chowpatty signal. As the car approached the signal, the terrorists opened fire on the cops, but were forced to reduce speed because of the barricades.
    Omble overtook the skoda and stopped in front of it, forcing the driver of the car to swerve right and hit the divider. With the terrorists momentarily distracted, omble sprang toward one of them, amir kasab, and gripped the barrel of the ak47 rifle with both hands. With the barrel pointing towards omble, amir pulled the trigger. A spray of bullets entered his stomach and intestine. Omble collapsed, but held on to the gun till he breathed his last, stopping amir from shooting anyone else.
    The other cops, who by that time had killed the other terrorist, ismail, pounced on amir and captured him. The investigation agencies were reported to have gathered a lot of information from the sole terrorist captured.
    Omble is survived by his wife and four daughters. He is a real hero. Let’s salute him.

    We Salute You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Vijay it is the same number Nimish contacted and asked the concerned person to remove the article which does not seem to be genuine.

  21. The website http://www.humanrightskerala.com is totally a farce, with only biased, incorrect and provocative statements against our country. This surely is a very biased site. I urge to have it removed, or atleast remove the india name associated with it on all the pages, making everyone feel its the views of some indian working organisation. If it is indeed an indian organisation, strict action should be taken against this organisation for publishing such mindless and baseless views.

  22. can some kind soul tell me name of this topiwala sansanikhej patrakaar…so tht i can see his wiki profile and have my share of fun.

  23. @Hades

    ‘Their’ action and words dont signify the nation’s maturity. On most of the occassions it is quite detrimental to nation’s well being. If ‘they’ are so inclined to do the Human Rights nautanki behind the veil of freedom of speech and expression, then its imperative on their part to do it in a matured fashion, backed with proper reason, and not in a way that projects their deeds as “we are the champions of fashionable causes – Join us people, you’ll be shown on national television”.

  24. @ GB,
    Thanks, an interesting post. I could not help but notice this oxymoron: “This man is interesting to me as he represents a unique species—the Pakistani public intellectual.”

    I assume, that you use the word intellectual here rather loosely….not usually the norm for a steady diet of hate, bigotry and delusion to result in an intellectual. Then again, I forget that standards in Pakistan are rather low so, I guess compared to the populace, he would qualify as an intellectual.

    Now, with due respect to Ms. Allbright, she is far too kind in her assessment of Pakistan as a global migraine, some have called it a blight, others a cancer.

    Lastly, in response to your comment “some Indians (especially the human rights type) will go to any length to condemn theirs.”…….it has been said, that the greatest danger to a republic comes from its citizens who use their very freedoms to undermine the foundations of the republic.

  25. Sorry GB but I agree with Don. Your explanation does not hold.

    This joker and other Paki bloggers are free to write whatever they want. This is no reason for you to waste your time on them and glorify them, even if indirectly. A lot of people will watch this video or dig out references to this joker because of your article. Not all of them will laugh at him.

    First it was CNN/Fox and now Paki media. Is this the biggest thing that matters? What matters is the action we take and we do not seem to be taking any, as of now.

    To explain the point further I would suggest all to read a story ‘Yazid’ by Sa’adat Hasan Manto. For those who do not have access to books by Manto this is a story set in a small village in Pakistan sometime after partition. There is a rumor that Indians will stop the flow of rivers to Pakistan from Punjab. A meeting of villagers is called and people curse India. One man refuses to do that and opposes it. His logic is simple. He feels that if we have once established that India is enemy then it is foolish to expect friendly behavior. Instead of calling them names we should work to ensure that our fields do not dry up.
    There is a separate subplot regarding the name Yazid, but that is not important.

    This is what I am trying to say. The world is watching what we do. What Pakistan has done has not surprised any one. Other things do not matter much.

    Sambit Bal is not entirely wrong. I have had this experience second hand. Two of my relatives have been to Pakistan – to Rawalpindi and NWFP (Dera Ismail Khan) – which happened to be their ancestral home towns. Both came back with happy memories of extremely kind and friendly people. This did nothing to change either their or our perception of the country. Never did I hear them make a fine distinction between the man on the street and the government. Pakistan was enemy and that was it. I am sure it was the same on the other side.

  26. GreatBong, was it a deliberate attempt, in the context, to take the ‘ship’ off “Franship”? Or am I doing a Rajdeep Sardesai here?

    And as for Sambit Bal, I guess the reason why he felt so good was they, as he put it, came back touched and overwhelmed by the warmth and the affection given to them unconditionally. Last heard, they charge you for that in Kamatipura.

    And finally a cheap shot at the link you provided on the renowned HR activist: In the first 5 sentences, they have termed (what I believe is supposed to be) Israel’s secret service as Mossad, Missal and Mussed. Makes me think, this guy has atleast 3 personalities, eh? Whats the word for ’em these days? Human rights activists?

    For all those determined to hack these sites and all that, I appeal to you with folded hands like my Prime Minister would, in the name of tax-free entertainment, live and let live.

  27. Even average educated pakistanis live in a different world…try discussing gandhi or hadod law…you will get frustrated at the way they want to defend something wrong ….all are Gen. musharraf types…
    denying things on face….remember how general mush completely denied his words against Mukhtar Mai despite media showing evidences.

  28. Hey last time I checked, we were at a population advantage over the Pakis (on and offnet). Greatbong, please come up with some such email and I will be happy to pass them on to as many people/places as possible.
    However, one thing which you have pointed out and which is missed by most is that its precisely because of our ability to question that we don’t fall into the trap that Pakis have. Whcih is why after the China fiasco we never had to face such massive war losses. Look at Pakistan, lost 3 wars, dismembered and now going into a mess (with stateless figures) but still trying to replicate the same bankrupt policies.

  29. Arnab,

    Our own media makes me sick. Now I hear they are in huddle trying to evolve a self regulatory code. Your namesake on Times channel keeps on repeating “Your Channel” and “This is a special blah blah”,Barkha Dutt manages to rush to the zero ground faster than superman …Rajdeep Sardesai pontificates that Mumbai should become a city state if such incidents are to be avoided….the Hindi channel reporters get bitten by KRK, in they copy his style of dialogue delivery….all leave me confused and disappointed
    Your point well taken…fully accepted….but our own media have not covered themselves in glory….please write something about this too…not something that will play into the hands of the morons in our friendly neighbourhood.

  30. Ramrajvi,

    ‘Their’ action and words dont signify the nation’s maturity

    Whether their actions signify the nation’s maturity is a matter of your own perception. I believe Roy is a bit too Left to be rational but that what I believe.

    A student at JNU might believe something else and he’s not necessarily stopped from believing so.

    But that the Nation lets these groups operate unmolested, to large extent, is what a sign of our maturity is.

    A situation where everybody thought and said the same thing, ostensibly in national interest, is a scary proposition.

  31. Totally agree with you Hades.

    Innovation and progress is always achieved by people who are (or are seen to be) at the fringes. The “crazy ones” as the Apple ‘Think Different’ ad says. Or as Gandhi said, “First they’ll ignore us. Then they’ll ridicule us. Then they’ll fight us. Then we’ve won.”

    Of course, only some of the “fringe” thinkers are great. Most are probably mad, weird or downright dangerous.

    But unfortunately, if we get rid of the ‘dangerous’ ones, we also end up losing the ones who do take the world forward.

    So while I personally think the Arundhati Roys of this world are completely wrong, I am glad we live in a country that allows such voices to exist.

    Otherwise, everybody will become mainstream and society will stagnate.

  32. The complaint against the article on HumanRightsKerala.com been taken seriously. People from the Gamdevi Police Station called back to ascertain my identity and then I went and met the cops. They then called the ATS while I was at the police station and told them that they had verified the identity of the complainant and they should ask the Internet team to get on it. The phone number of the site owner has been noted too.

    Also, for all others concerned, if you do wish to contact the ATS ever, you could call them on 91.22.23791619. Lot of other fake numbers being sent in forwarded emails.

  33. Bong-

    That same interview had as another guest this lady, who was talking about how india was uchalaoing apni “gandh” on Pakistan and how we could not keep our own house in order ( true most of it ), but the way the host of the show was asking the questions was akin to the baju waali aunty telling your mom how you were a bad seed because she caught her son smoking with you. You should watch that video and comment man, flared nostrils and all the hand gestures would’ve made your day.

  34. hi, GB i got to this blog through one of the links and since then i m hooked to it i have read almost everything u have written till now including archieves.
    this is nice post and i believe pakistani media is always in denial mood and keep on generating funny therioes to defend them rightly said its international migraine.

  35. I agree some of the blogs may be psychotic but among others atleast Dawn’s coverage of this incidence is commendable (atleast way better than I expected). Especially considering Pakistan’s own state of affairs. In fact, they had a full section dedicated to Mumbai carnage.

    Now some stuff from there and a mall quiz at the end –

    Statement #1

    “But there is no justification for Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee’s warning that the military option was open. India has sent a list of some 20 people who have reportedly taken refuge in Pakistan after committing acts of sabotage in India. Certain names are the same which were sent in 1993. The point to underline is not the repetition of names but Mukherjee’s ultimatum within 24 hours of dispatching the list. Islamabad should have been given ample time to consider the names.”

    Statement #2

    ” Setting an example for all countries that seek to follow democratic principles and traditions, two main Indian leaders relinquished their duties following the Mumbai tragedy. Although they are not directly responsible for the disaster India’s Home Minister Shivraj Patil and National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan offered their resignations accepting their “moral responsibility” for the tragedy.”

    Statement #3

    “Cracking down on militant groups that have deep roots in Pakistani society and have fanned out across the country will be a tough task that will require substantial groundwork. The government must also prepare for the possibility of a backlash from militants, with a new round of violence possibly engulfing Pakistan’s cities if the government goes after militants in earnest. Similarly, the civilian government and military leadership must speak with one voice against the scourge of terrorism. Any signs of a rift in that relationship will further complicate matters and hamper Pakistan’s efforts to credibly respond to India.

    All the above statements are taken from editorials and op-ed pieces from today’s (5th December 2008) Dawn (www.dawn.com).

    Now match the above with –

    A – Pakistani Writer
    B – Indian Writer
    C – Sri- Lankan Writer

    Ans – 1-B, 2-C, 3-A

    (The Indian writer is Kuldeep Nayyar)

    So I think the spectrum is pretty smeared.

  36. @gr8bong & @Don Ayan de Marco:
    i agree wid Don that this geni-ASS should not have been given so much space on this blog but I want to differ on one point though that all the normal citizens of pakistan hail his opinion.
    I can’t say much bout the people like Sambit Bal who “try to peddle namby-pamby feel-good of brotherly love which many people (Indians) actually buy.” but i know a few pakistanis and they r pretty much the same as we Indians are normal working people with love for their country but definitely NOT up for such terrorist acts. so though I also held such opinions when I was in Bombay but after coming to NY n getting to know different ppl fr different regions I hav been more tolerant n i definitely beg to differ on this point of yours….

  37. EMC3 bhai,

    The last time you wrote here defending the point of view of your Kashmiri Muslim community, you blamed the Kashmiri Pandits for their own genocide. You called the Kashmiri Hindus cowardly and implied that they deserved their destitute plight.

    Then Niharika Kaul shut you up – with facts and data.

    Now, are you sure you don’t want to blame the dead Hindus, Jews, Christians etc (who were murdered in the Mumbai Jihadi attacks) as having deserved it too?

  38. These guys are merely fringe elements.

    The guys who are much more sinister are the literati and the glitteratti, the type that typically insists that India cooperate with Pakistan, but never asks Pakistan to cooperate with India.

    The main reason why our media covered the protest by the likes of Javed Akhtar, was to center *all* the blame squarely on “these ( Indian ) politicians”, and thus protect Pakistan from being showered with blame.

    Then there are those who say that the attacks were due to the lack of peace process in the “xenophobic fortress” called India – why is that any worse than saying that the Gujarat riots were due to Godhra or centuries of oppression by Muslim rulers?

  39. @spark
    “The Paki media should be treated with the same empathy as a retarded child. They don’t know what they are doing they shouldn’t be made fun of.”

    Mwahaha….Best one in a long time. Couldn’t have put it in any better way.

  40. There are some things that have been troubling me, GB.

    1) About 200,000 odd people were reported to have congregated at the Taj on Wed to protest against the “corrupt and inefficient” politicians because of the attack on the Taj and Oberoi. Simi grewal, Ness wadia etc had the time to come on Barkha’s show and rant against the politicians ineptitude. However, how come these same poeple havent ever in the last decade congregated to protest and kick out the politicians because farmer’s are commiting suicide in Vidarbha or children are dying out of hunger in the slums of Bombay.

    I dont mean to trivialize the issue. But my point is, that the elite in Indian society have had it so easy always, had it their way always, that they cant stand the fact that their security was humiliated on 26/11. Ever wondered why the terrorists never blow bombs in Dharavi or the hinterland where the damage caused per bomb would involve far more casualties? Its because they know, that in our culture, different lives have different values. Nobody cares about what happens to the downtrodden in this country.

    2) Its said a country that doesnt learn from its mistakes is bound to repeat them. In 1993, the bombs arrived via the sea. The sea is where the terrorists arrived from this time as well. The Hindu culture has been plundered right since Ghazni in the 12th odd century. We just never learn.

    3) People are comparing this movement to the Jessica Lall case. They say they were “successful” in the Jessica case because she got justice in the end. What they forget is that they were actually unsuccessful in the Jessica case, because the underlying cancer which prevented her from getting justice in the first place, wasnt cured. Can anybody on this forum honestly tell me that another Jessica Lall kind of injustice cannot happen in this country? Our people lose their focus, rationale thought when they get into a mob mentality.

  41. We need to keep the issue alive. Don’t let this action die without any results. We need to make sure Mumbai continues to get the due coverage around the world. I am try to put all the related news at one place. It will be updated every few mins.

    http://indiawillprevail.blogspot.com

    A blog may not be a good enough place. I think we need a site like Huffington Post.

    India needs a “Change India” campaign. We need to get rid of the rotten politics and politicians. We need to bring good people in politics. We need patriots in politics.. we need Ratan Tata’s and NarayanMurthy’s in Delhi; Not people like Lalu and Amar Singh.

    We need to start this campaign.. Let it be run by people, not by our corrupt politicians and biased media. If people of US can change the whole landscape in just one year and elect a black president. Why can’t India do something similar.

  42. http://ghulammuhammed.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/gautam-adhikari-speak-up-do-somethingsay-openly-that-the-rss-mossad-are-responsible-otherwise-be-damned-and-consider-the-nation-doomed-they-killed-karkare-to-send-a-message-that-you-cannot-inv/

    I have been trying to dig deep into this and was pointed to this link. It seems the guy is Amaresh Mishra and not Amrish Mishra. And whether or not that is a real name, god knows. But the guy’s number was on the site and I dialled in. I asked him if he is the guy who wrote about the Mumbai attacks and the RSS-Mossad angle. He said “Yes.”. Then I asked him if he is a journalist and he proclaimed “Please go to the Internet and you’ll see that I have written a lot on similar lines. I have written for Hindustan Times, Indian Express, and other publications. I am a professional writer.” (Well, there are three books by an Amaresh Misra on the Rupa Publications site – http://www.rupapublications.co.in/client/Author/Amaresh-Mishra.aspx) He also went on to say “I have been receiving quite a few calls and people are asking me funny questions.”

    Still unable to digest that there is an actual guy in India who endorses (or rather propagates) such a view. I’ll also be going back and informing the police that they needn’t investigate into this any further.

    Am in disbelief.

  43. @Sam
    I don’t think this is a case of shutting down HRK. They should at least verify the authenticity of the article they publish. I guess in a country like India the cost of free speech is paid by digesting “vommitted crap” like the one from HRK.

  44. @Rohit
    I agree with you. In the case of Jessica Lal the symptoms were cured. The disease still remains. There are hundreds of Jessica Lal type cases. Just one got justice because of the media attention. Sadly, to the media, India begins from India Gate and ends at the Yamuna Bridge. If anyone goes into the rural India, he will realize that there is nothing like law and order or a semblance of security. Many such problems never get highlighted. But then if everyone expects for justice through media, that itself speaks for the sorry state of affairs.

    And for the Mumbai elite, terrorists disturbing their evening hangout place has majorly pissed them off. How dare they destroy the place where they have their evening cup of tea.(sarcasm intended)

  45. “Numero Uno ! There is a Part II to that video , where the same anal-yst claims that Kasab is a sikh boy called Amar Singh .”

    I am guessing next thing they say is that it’s Amitabh who did all this especially considering he has a gun under his pillow 😉

  46. I have been trying to dig deep into this and was pointed to this link. It seems the guy is Amaresh Mishra and not Amrish Mishra. This link here has his number. And I dialled in. He confirmed that he wrote this piece and he does believe in the RSS-Mossad angle. Also, he is a historian and a good one at that. He has written three books with Rupa publications – one on Mangal Pandey and 2 others.

    So, greatbong, what you say is absolutely true and this article by Amaresh Mishra validates your point.

    Dam! I am quite shocked. Will also be headed to Gamdevi to inform the police and tell them not to investigate this further.

  47. It’s shocking to see people pointing fingers on the victims – people of India, especially Hindu, who terrorists attack specifically across J&K and elsewhere. These morons don’t even understand that our Govt (UPA lead by Congress) caught a attacker alive and he’s providing all the details of Pakistani involvement. Intelligence community around the world agrees that it was planned and executed by Islamic militants from Pakistan.

    Who we should believe.. should people believe these morons?
    It’s height of stupidity!

  48. While we may scoff at the lies spread by Paki bloggers, there is no doubt about the damage that they do.
    The vast majority of Americans and Europeans are ignorant of global events and if they get their news and opinions from these blogs then they might consider this as the gospel truth.
    And let us face the truth, unless the US puts pressure on the Pakis to dismantle their terror network, the terror attacks are going to continue.

    I THINK THE INDIAN CYBER COMMUNITY SHOULD PUT FORTH A UNITED FORUM TO PUT FORTH INDIA’S POINT OF VIEW. Take for example the hugely successful Israeli lobby which sends out mails to its members about any discussion or mailing thread about Israel so that its members can put forth their view on it.
    India too should put forth a cyber lobby group where we can mail each other about any forum where we feel that the truth is being perverted by Paki blooggers, so that our members can swarm the thread and reveal the truth.
    DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY SUCH INDIAN FORUM??

  49. what? i am a zionist now? what does it mean. i thought that it stood for jews. so,should i also take over a country like them? coz i am all for it.

  50. hey India will Prevail

    Dont get so exasperated bro.
    Its a generational struggle. It didnt start in 1947 and it will not end with our generation.
    This incident at Mumbai is an unfortunate, by important part of that struggle. But by no means, this the end of it.

    If you wish to lobby like the Jews, get in touch with an Indian students group in Washington DC, named DESI (Develop Empower Synergise India). They are in close touch with the Jewish groups about the Mumbai incident and have considerable experience in doing small but effective work.
    Email: desi.umd@gmail.com

  51. Well writ.

    Thanks for writing this humerous but nevertheless sensible take on a very serious topic.

    *I personally thought they were Jihad Jihad Hota Hain friendship brands which say “We will share the same virgin in heaven”*…cracked me up!

    Meera

  52. Step 1 is defining the problem. Is it Pakistan? Is it Kashmir? Is it retaliation for Guajarat? Is it marginalisation & lack of employment opportunities as Sachar suggests?

    Or is it something far more sinister and dark? Something far more primeval and atavistic? Something going to the roots of biological existence?

    We will have to confront our demons sooner or later. We have always hastily hidden from the true cause whenever it struck us before. And has this helped? Has it solved the problem? Or has it merely allowed the terror to return with ever increasing frequency, ever expanding ambit, ever soaring audacity and ambition, and ever intensifying pain?

    Such incidents will continue to happen in India, and get worse, far worse. Calling an evil system ‘good’ in the vain hope that their verbally unimpaired sensibilities will somehow make humans out of terrorists is wishful thinking.

    So. Let us take the first step. What is the real problem here?

  53. @Hakka Bukka

    Thanks for the info about DESI.

    I am trying my bit to improve awareness and keep momentum going.
    Nobody can disagree that things will change slowly, but that should not thwart our efforts to change things.

    I have had my own years of apathy. But after Mumbai, I think it’s enough for me. I am not satisfied where my country is heading. And I want to work for a better India. Terrorism has no place in a India that we love. So I will work to defeat it.

    I am sure I am not the only slacker that feels that way, and you’re not the only one who doubts that this activism is has a value.

    Thanks

  54. Deviating from the topic….
    If anyone has seen the video, the comment
    “…woh dete rahe and hum lete rahe” just tickled the humor bone in me :).
    The dirty part of my brain got activated. 😉

    On a serious note, It’s high time we did some “dete rahe” and they do some “lete rahe”.

  55. @haraharabombom
    There are various theories to your question. Unfortunately, It’s a cocktail of some of them. Here’s a list.
    1) The Pakistan army hates India.
    Imagine being humiliated by an enemy 4 times. The hatred runs deep. One expects that the passage of time would wash off the burden of history. Not so in the army. Their training school makes every passing out officer take a pledge to avenge for the defeat of ’71. Pakistan knows that it cannot defeat India in conventional war. So the covert support to the terrorists.

    2) To a lesser extent, India falls hopelessly in the middle of a chain of Islamic/Autocratic countries. An oasis of democracy, it fosters western influence in the region. It suits their purpose if India is somehow converted to an Islamic country.

    An extension of the above is the fact that Pakistan tried to play at the loyalty on Indian muslims. When that grossly failed, they are trying to paint India as an oppressive Hindu majority country which inflicts pain on the hapless muslim minority. This is evident from the fact that pakistanis refer to the govt. of India as “the Hindus”. Ironically, the PM is a sikh and the Super PM a christian.

  56. @ India Will Prevail

    These DESI fellows are like you too. Young and with a sense of purpose.
    I personally know the person who checks
    desi.umd@gmail.com

    “I am sure I am not the only slacker that feels that way, and you’re not the only one who doubts that this activism is has a value”.

    No bro. I dont think you are a slacker in the first place. We all have to begin to realize our role sometime.
    And I am sure that the blogsite you made considerably helps in conveying the message you want to give.

    See, conveying your message to the world or to the “enemy”, involves considerable clarity of thought and depth of resources.

    Historically, we have shown that we have just enough of both of the above to survive, but not enough to succeed.

    Think that your 2 cents might just tilt the scale.

  57. I have a few questions.
    Although the notable Pakistani individual looked pretty idiotic, some of his questions weren’t addressed by Arnab or any of the other people who commented.
    While my instincts make me want to believe that most of the general masses in Pakistan are swayed by propaganda spurt forth by the aforementioned Yugpurush, what is the basis of slamming Pakistan so ardently? Is it on the basis of the statements of Indian Intelligence/politicians that are being given a platform in the Indian media? Last time I remember, the Indian Intelligence was an euphemism for “sick joke”. Which is what makes me wonder again…..is it really believable that a hardcore terrorist who was supposedly on a suicide mission squeals like a turkey, giving out not only his name but the name of his village, affiliation, trainer et al in the face of interrogation by Indian intelligence?
    Maybe the FBI agents extracted it out of him, but his name was known much before FBI and other foreign intelligence reached the shores of India. Had the Indian intelligence officials been that efficient, I don’t think 26/11 would have happened in the first place.
    Looking at the event very coldly and deviously, doesn’t it seem natural that the BJP are the unanimous winners out of this horror? UPA’s credibility lies in ruins before the elections, Mr. Karkare lies dead, no one is talking about Samjhauta Express and Mr. Purohit any more. I am sure this is just a conspiracy theory that devious and cynical minds like mine keep hatching up…but how do we know the theory in the air is not something similar? While Mr. Mukherjee keeps saying India has proof, no inkling of that proof has been mentioned by the media.
    A bunch of innocent people end up losing their lives, everybody is seething with rage, but the funny(!?) part is that everyone acknowledges that if an encore happens tomorrow in Mumbai itself, the results will be pretty much the same. One of these days we should stop emoting and start acting! But then again, I ain’t acting much besides giving vent to helpless anger on a blog, so you can ignore that!

  58. @IndiaWillPrevail

    Thanks for creating your blog.
    Please review the following site and consider adding a link to it:
    http://pajamasmedia.com

    This is a network of several blogs, usually from a conservative perspective and have posted several articles covering 11/26 and the dangers posed by radical Islamic.

  59. the video was way too funny dude! “unki shaklein hinduon jaisi hain”, “peaceful neighbors”…never had so much fun in so short a time. he should try stand-up!

  60. BREAKING NEWS:

    Bowler Asif Mir Sardari created a record of sorts when he bowled 10 consecutive no-balls in a Shaheed Ul-fuq memorial cricket match. He was playing for poki-istan, he had just taken over bowling from his predecessor Gen Ruff.

    The umpire Rice Candy, mercilessly called all the no-balls, but strangely did not allow runs to be scored on these no-balls by opposition batsmen. In a surprise decision, she actually declared that the one-change batsman Shave-raj out on one of these balls. So all the opposition team members were found wailing, SMSing, blogging or holding candles at the conclusion of the match.

    However, as a consolation in a post-match press conference Rice Candy declared that the Poki-stan team comprised of bad boys and that the opposition was a much better lot. She praised the oppsoition for having more no-balls than poki-stan.

    In an unrelated news, the captain of the opposition team Man-the-mohan after being egged by madam Phoney-aa distributed freshly chopped heads of Villous-shaped and Petal-shaped cauliflowers to his team members. (for the clueless: Villous & Petal were the captain & vice-captain of Team Bum-buy)

  61. One person who has taken all this seriously and has actually followed up on his outrage is Nimish. Good show buddy. If all of us were as seriously active as you were atleast some leads would turn out hot and there would be some pressure on the cops

    Take care

  62. GB, I am not a religion-enthusiant. But the Mossad-RSS theory going around sounds uncannily the Al-Takiya technique of creating confusion and mayhem (google it please). Unfortunately, this theory is being blatantly published and promoted by muslim-media within the country, (the Kerala-based site is a case in point – there are more, I am sure) with more than tacit support from confused free-speakers that talk without evidence or common sense. Why would Jews co-operate with a party that ostensibly idolises Hitler & is Nazi? (anyways thats the popular opinion – why conveniently ignore that now?) This looks like a carefully planned confusion planted in places to create most effect. This is one reason why it is okay to atleast monitor, if not curtail, anything that goes under freedom of speech

  63. the thing is , if we were a hindu country like pak, following radical religion based policy with a government consisting of staunch, conservative, lunatic hindus, maybe pakistan would have been friends with us. but the fact that we are a democracy in the true sense of the word, and though not a perfect country,and the fact that we are better than them probably kills them.

  64. i know someone whose more retarded than the Pakistani media and the Indian media (let’s not forget their ‘outstanding’ coverage)..

    today in the Telegraph is an op-ed by Ashok Mitra who says that India is being attacked because we have a strategic alliance with the Americans.

    Yup.. the communists have won the race to delusion once again.

  65. I don’t understand that bit about Kasab really being a Sikh lad named, “Amar Singh”.
    Because previously in the revelation the all knowing gentleman said that these dastardly Brahmins were persecuting, to put it mildly, all Indian minorities, including Christians, Dalits and Sikhs.
    So, then, one wonders, why would a young Sikh man become a willing pawn in the hands of these diabolical Brahmins? hmmmmm, one wonders?

    ps- it is only a matter of time before the Pakistani analyst notices that two wily Brahmins [ Vikram Pandit and Neel Kashkari] are now in control of the world’s finances. And the Jews thought they were the wily ones.

  66. Gee Greatbong

    “in the process providing the final difference between India and Pakistan—-while Pakistanis, to a man, will go to any length to defend their country’s activities (no matter how ridiculous the defense), some Indians (especially the human rights type) will go to any length to condemn theirs.”

    Marvi Menon, the nubile young legislator who comes on immediately after scary guy, seems to just have a very similar condemning Pakistani media for being divisive, whereas Indian media supports government conspiracies in national interest.

    Great minds think alike?

    Perhaps the difference between India and Pakistan are things like democracy, elections, outspoken women and a toleration of a difference of opinion.

  67. @Vijay :
    The investigation agencies were reported to have gathered a lot of information from the sole terrorist captured.

    What information! They had lots of information from intel even before these psychos came to India for destroying the peace and serenity of Mumbai. What did they do with that information, they wiped their nose and slept over it. So what would they do with the “lot of information” that they so “painstakingly” gathered from that captured terrorist?

    I would say that Omble’s life was simply wasted. Who would look after his family now, these corrupt politicians? They don’t care an iota for people like Omble unless of course they can get into the limelight for that. BTW I was just wondering why haven’t we heard anything from the Robin Hood of the Maharshtrian “manoos”. But no news is good news I think, so he is better shut up than talking non-sense once again.

    @GB : An awesome post Arnab Da.

  68. Look what SP leader have to say

    Organised by the Samajwadi Party (SP) at Batla Chowk, the Friday rally’s main speaker was Wasim Ahmed Ghazi, party candidate for the Okhla assembly constituency. Addressing a gathering of over 1,000, Ghazi said: “Congress and BJP are hand-in-glove in the current terror attacks in the country. The Congress in order to save its government opened investigations into theMalegaon blast in reaction to the Batla House encounter. And it might be possible that those who want to save Sadhvi Pragya orchestrated the killing of Hemant Karkare, the ATS chief who had all the evidence against the Sadhvi and Purohit,” said Ghazi.

    ……………….

    Local leader and SP activist Yasin Patel thundered: “The Mumbai attack is like the 9/11 of America. It was America’s mechanism to kill the Muslim world. The Mumbai attack is a mechanism to kill Indian Muslims and to create a war.”

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Delhi/SP_meet_at_Batla_House_attacks_govt/articleshow/3798693.cms

  69. you haven’t written about Ram Jethmalani…. that a$$ too defended pakistan….. its highlighted by this jerk too.. 😦

  70. @vikas…..what else u expect from SP….thank god they havnt said the caught terrorist isnt an innocent muslim being victimized by GOI…..

  71. Another, more charitable way of looking at this might be that this guy represents more of a lunatic fringe in Pakistan, rather than the mainstream. Eg: Jerry Falwell in the US & his statements after 9/11. He got plenty of airtime on TV & enough support to populate some websites, but still hardly mainstream.

    There are also enough Americans who believe JFK’s assassination was a CIA conspiracy, or that Apollo 11 never landed on the moon, to fill up a few blogs. Hardly makes their beliefs mainstream.

    So yes, it is in fact quite plausible that a. the average Pakistani wants peace with India, but is susceptible to waves of nationalistic fervor just like Indians, Americans, or anyone else, & b. a lunatic fringe believes in things like UFOs, conspiracy theories, & Hindu Zionists. Just like the media everywhere else, Pakistani media gives more credence to this lunatic fringe than they deserve.

    The trouble is as someone pointed out earlier, the Pakistani Army & ISI really do hate India/Indians deeply, & so this lunatic fringe might find some support from people with guns. That is the real danger.

  72. It is in Pakistan’s interest to build resistance against the lunatic fringe. Nobody is under any illusion about who actually wields power in Pakistan even after the establishment of an elected government. The military influence has to be gradually reduced – a big ask.

    A big difference will be possible if ordinary people start accepting the harms of the radicalization of religion. And without any real development percolating to the poor – the breeding ground for recruiting jehadists will always be ideal fodder for the army/establishment – who all have a common enemy – India.

    So far there is nothing to suggest that they will reverse hate – that is the official policy of Pakistan.

  73. On what do “people of Pakistan” feel:

    The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan

    Its a report by a Pakistani body on what is being taught as history in schools there over the last two-three decades. Picked up the link from something Arun Shourie wrote recently. A longish document – skim pdf page 27-45 (pages 10-30 odd in the text itself) for example.

    The fact that someone there did do this report gives some hope but still I was amazed to see that primary school children are being given this world view. And this is not madrassas but English medium schools.

    We keep saying we are from the same lot, the boundaries are artificial and so on. Fact is we might have been – but no more!

  74. There are many NRIs commenting here. I have to ask you this; have you stopped buying from Pakistani stores and eating at Pakistani restaurants in the US or elsewhere? Before we talk of the Indian’s govt’s “weak response” let us remember that they are just a reflection of the people who are still clinging on to Pak performers in India and still want good biryani in the U.S.

  75. I am glad none of you vote.. and you belong to the generation that talks a lot about the country and its well being -but only on the Net!! Have any of you EVER participated in the politics/social welfare of any of the poor people/victims of the 26/11 attack? I am sure the answer will be NO. Internet chats dont change the country- solid participation does

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