March, Year of the Lord 2009. [Link]
“If Trinamool Congress comes to power, we’ll show what is called development. Tell me why East Midnapore’s vast coastline, Digha, cannot be turned into Goa? Or northern Bengal cannot be developed like Asia’s Switzerland, when we’ve all resources available in these regions?” Mamata told a press conference in Kolkata.
“Kolkata is an international place and it will be transformed into London, if Trinamool Congress comes to power,” added Mamata.
March, Year of the Lord 2013.
This is Ghatothkoch Basu, reporter for BBC (Bongiyo Bakwaas Company) and ITV (Ilish TV), reporting from the city of London which used to be known as Kolkata which previously used to be known as Calcutta. Today we take a look at the transformation that has taken place in the state under the leadership of chief minister Boro Didi who from yesterday has requested that she be called ” The Big Behen” after the “Big Ben” of UK’s London.
Right now we are standing outside TataByeBye Palace, a building that was once a factory but has now been transformed into a grand memorial for Bengali industry . Tourists are gathering to witness the change of guard when the Singur Peto Panchoos will transfer their pipe guns and country-made bombs to the Malda Division outside the steel gates that say “Lock Out” on it in big letters.
We have with us to give his reactions Mr. John Smith who used to be known as Janardhan Sen. He runs a local tea-shop “Earl Grey Cha” for government clerks, poets, ex-Naxalites masquerading as independents and striking workers.
Located on a street named after Calcutta’s millions of unemployed youth namely Bekar Street, “Earl Grey Cha” is the state’s second biggest business house in terms of revenue just behind Beenapani Mistanna Bhandar, makers of fine chana-r (cottage cheese) pudding.
So Mr. Smith, how do you like the new Calcutta aka London?
John Smith: “Bloody good old chap. Now I serve tea by the pint.
Before the bloody officers would be sleeping at their desks. Now they catch forty winks.
Before we would say “Abbe West Bengal ke minister”. Now we just say “Westminister Abbey”.
Hooghly Bridge is now London Bridge. Looking at the amazing maintenance of civic facilities, we do get a kick out of singing “London bridge is falling down, falling down” now mate.
The “parar” (community) mostaans and gundas are all Dukes and Earls.
The parliamentary elders now sit at Lords Bakery.
Shyambazar is called Sam-bazar. In honor of umbrellas, Ballygunj is now Brolly-gunj. Park Circus is Piccadilly Circus. Teni-da is Tennyson.
Mohan Bagan is Manchester United. East Bengal are the East Enders.
And yes most importantly the intellectuals now talk in cockney. What is there not to like?”
Mr. Smith do you have any opinions on the sea-side Digha becoming the new “Goa” and North Bengal the new “Switzerland”?
John Smith: “Yes. I like to take my family out to the countryside in London’s preferred mode of environment-friendly transport—cycle rickshaws. You can hardly recognize Digha now. The old seedy gambling joints near the beach are now called casinos and the “dheno” they used to package in old Mother Dairy plastic bags is now sold as locally-brewed beer to all the foreign tourists that thong Digha—foreigners from Bangladesh that is !
As to the Jungfrau region previously known as North Bengal, I have not been there for a while. But my brother whose old “Joker moori lozenge” company is now called “Swiss confectionary” says the new changes have been marvelous. Cannot tell you more as he has been stuck on a ski lift for the past month as there has been no power in the region.”
Thank you Mr. Smith for your valuable insight.
Coming up next, we go live to Oxpur University where a band of formidable girls from the engineering school calling themselves “Iron Maidens” will perform the theme song for the city— “Children of the Damned“.
[Link via separate mails from Suhel Banerjee and Shubhadeep Roy]
The Greatbong Blog & Podcast 
First!
Confirming my email.
Brilliant! All it lacks is a h(b)ollywood perspective.
You forgot about Commies what will they be called ?
Perhaps the “New Labour”.
And the new city of London will be ruled by Margaret Thatcher(Mamata Banerjee).:D
Brilliant!!!
Did you forget about “The New London” Cricket team ??
“Before we would say “Abbe West Bengal ke minister”. Now we just say “Westminister Abbey”.” – That’s the ONE !
Simply hilarious! And yeah, ‘Westminister’ Abbey was the funniest! 😀
Oxpur University…. Ultimate!!!!
havn’t laughed so much in a while…!!!
BTW what would happen to kolkata knight riders?…
another news ppl might enjoy…
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Patna-Case-filed-against-Ratan-Tata/articleshow/4309032.cms
Oxpur University! Lol Even Bridgepur Univ. would do, since it churns out a lot of enginners who design bridges that ‘fall down’ a la London bridge! :p
Brilliant post, GB!
Thanks for the mention Arnab:)
Some more dope for your Oxpur university – http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090319/jsp/calcutta/story_10688684.jsp
And Biplabi Kanai Sarani is where Sherlock Holmes will be staying!
Jungfrau region—-hahahahahaha
Thanks for a good laugh. That was brilliant!
extremely boka boka… since when are u watching Mir’s shows?
simply awesome, now it all remains to be seen what will become of Mumbai’s Shanghai dream.
While we are at it, can we please also have a Ferrari plant at Singur; making the place richer than Singapore.
Sam-Bizarre for Shyambazar! Rofl!
Wonder which team will don the mantle of Arse-nil!!!
Hats off to Ms. Mum-Tub-Energy 😀
pls change that ‘thong’ to ‘throng’. this is hilarious enuf as it is.
I called up my parents and did a as good as the original Bangla translation. They had agreed and has asked me to pass on their compliments to you for writing so well.
I am wondering what could happen to Biman Bose, who has a ‘kind’ words for anything that is not a ‘Bamponthi’. How would he be in this imperialist setup?
And would Didi start living in Victoria Memorial ? And would Usha Uthup rewrite the words of ‘Didi’ to suit her image?
And, how would George Baker (bekaar) fare in this ? Would he be the automatic and unopposed choice for Minister for Cultural Affairs?
@GB –
“Before we would say “Abbe West Bengal ke minister”. Now we just say “Westminister Abbey”.” — P R I C E L E S S…!!
@iitaditya –
Kolkata Knight Riders would then become London Lunatics!
😀
Hilarious….Jobab Nei dada tomar 🙂
On second thoughts…behind all the humor, the picture is really grim.
Sigh !!!
Marvelous! Thanks for the laughter!!
Amazing stuff!
What a piece!
Mamata di seems to be really far-sighted. She’s talking of coming to power in the state on the pretext of Loksabha Election! This is hilarious.. Sure – Kolkata wil be London!
I was hoping that you will post something on this great statement made by the empress of Kalighat.
Nice reading it.
Brilliant post! Thanks for the laugh 🙂
oh, brilliant, GreatBong!
Good one! GB!
boring,boring,boring….and this supposed to be funny!!!!
I think “The Big Behen” can give our “amma” down south a good run for the money 😀
good ….but not vintage GB stuff.
i think public living near kalighat in kolkata should change their car to NANO and make mamta go mad by making her “see” nano everywhere.
like police men coming in nano where ever she goes…
her friends, whole neighbourhood and political opponents using nano….explicitly and silently to irritate her…the way she did to all of youth of bengal.
Arnab da,
For your eyes!
http://cricket.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/25/kolkata-knight-riders-to-have-multiple-captains.htm
awesome post but why why oh why did u rename the National team of India,our beloved Mohun Bagan, to manure/manU …. as my knowledge goes manure is from Manchester(the name is such a giveaway); plz get some London clubs at least eg Arsenal :P.
Wonder they would change London to another like Kolkataaaaaaaaaaa..and those two links great too.
@EMC3
Not Sherlock! Bomkesh!!
Dada, “Kangaroo (Buchanan) ne ek bar phir Bengal Tiger ka shikar kar Diya” first Guru greg hunted down dada and now Buchanan tamed the tiger. What is the problem of these aussies with ganguly. We want an explanation from you. Pls inter into Buchanan ming and tell us why he choose 1 captain for every 3 or 4 match.
Seems Mamata asked you before ‘the statement’ and you put your words in her MOUTH!
@GB..nice one !! but sirji ‘Mamata ki Bhavnao ko samjho’ :))
you are boody good..cheerio matie!
Iron Maidens from “Oxpur University” …. LOL ….
Yes, of course I laughed but this is also very creative. Immensely enjoyable.
lovely! the tongue-in-cheek allusions will stay with me for sometime 🙂
her highness, Ma’m bajee ..
Kalighat – Canary Wharf
” The Big Behen” after the “Big Ben”….
“Teni-da is Tennyson”
“Iron Maidens” and “Children of the Damned“.
HO HO HO HO HO 😀
ROTFLMAO !!!
That was wicked !!! Just insanely funny !!!
Take a bow, GB.
GB,
People in politics try to achieve what they want through many ways some of which are quite despicable.
You may abhor Mamata’s actions vis a vis Singur etc and consider it funny or paradoxical when she expresses her idea, however naive it may be, of a developed Bengal.
Try to put this in context.
Chaps who demolished Babri are now ‘Statesmen’ who release memoirs, and having a good shot at prime-ministership.
People listen to and agree to the development agenda of a party that looks the other way when some of its underlings who cut open pregnant bellies.
No one sees a contradiction or reason for sarcasm.
Considering all this, I am glad that atleast Mamata has a vision of doing something positive when she achieves what she wants.
The means do not make sensible correlation to the vision. But then she is an angel compared to the ‘Statesman’
Great B,
By any chance, do you recall Parashuram’s UlatPuran ?
Very enjoyable post, dude…
@ anonymous
Yeah right. You are so right. Damn that “statesman” Advani. Look at all the nasty things he wants to do in his website…education, special perks for girl child….
That SOB
@Anonymous : “Chaps who demolished Babri are now ‘Statesmen’ who release memoirs, and having a good shot at prime-ministership”.
Gosh, India goes further than that!! Scumbags who systematically massacred thousands of innocent Sikhs, not by default inaction, but active participation, are now in power!! He who tacitly approves this by his silence is now the PM!! A puppet penumbric token PM perhaps, but PM nevertheless!!
Baap re baap!!
brilliant..btw apni nischoi ghoti..tai MB is MU and amra EB ra East Ender..HMMM!
@Hara hara
Use your keyboard for something constructive.
Frankly I am too small and powerless to change what happened in 1984.
But TODAY when I see some of my countrymen living in ghettos, forced into them by people who have support from people like YOU – I can do the least bit by voting against them and asking people to contemplate on what our country has become.
Dont seek justification of one wrong by another. Grow up
Oops, or you may be wearing a brown knicker or something. Sorry forgive me then. Heil!
awesome !! I guess great bong will no longer be called great bong then and instead called great brit ??
@ Anonymous
“Hara hara
Use your keyboard for something constructive.”
HHBB (Hara hara) has probably used his keyboard in this forum more constructively that you can imagine.
His eloquent and factful presentation of what stares India in particular and humanity in general, over the coming years from intolerant, expansionist and destructive thought processes has helped educate thousands of readers.
Not all may agree with the ways to deal with the issues he raised, but all are equally informed by his knowledge and logic.
Join the effort and make the world a safer, better place……unless ofcourse that is against your core beliefs.
Twadda Jawab Nahi Puttar !! Excellant
latest development…
Big Behen has taken a clue form that Bihar Lawyer & claimed that Nano launch is a political conspiracy against her…
“Westminister Abbey” – Killing.
Sad you din’t bring the football angle. Mohan United and Arse-Bengal could be fighting for the top EPL honors (Eastindia Pantabhaat League). What say!
@ Anonymous “Frankly I am too SMALL and POWERLESS to change what happened in 1984”.
Why should I not be allowed to bring up a horrific unprovoked massacre because of your stunted physical development?
@ Anonymous : “But TODAY when I see some of my countrymen living in ghettos”
[edited by GB]
@ Anonymous “Dont seek justification of one wrong by another.”
Never did. Never will do. I zealously ask for ALL facts to be presented, in their true context. Then allow reasonable people to make up their minds.
The propaganda against India and her values has been such a relentless, extensive, time-honoured tradition, from both within and without, that facts have been completely blotted out, and stark falsehoods peddled as veracity.
For example, how many of us are even remotely aware, that hardly forty years ago, at least 1 million (but possibly 3 million) Hindus were murdered and massacred in Bangladesh?
Why is it that foreign history books, even today, when so much powerful research has been conducted, continue to completely deny the INVASION THAT WAS (“Muslim rule in India was on the whole peaceful”, “Muslims introduced many liberal values in the Indian thought process”, “Islam spread through its egalitariansim”), while screaming about the INVASION THAT WASN’T (“Aryan hordes came charging down the passes”, “The Aryan invasion introduced the caste sytem in the 1,500 BC)?
Spare us your unctuous condescending. We will not be fooled by vapid pontification any longer.
@ Anonymous : “Oops, or you may be wearing a brown knicker or something.”
Oh so we’re down to underwear again. Well as a SecularPanthee (false secular), you must have a pantie wrapped around you head. And if you’re a communist panthee, its a RED PANTIE no less. Ha ha.
@ Anonymous : “Heil”
Yes, you may well click your Bata shoes to heil. After all, there were so many extensive and close links between Nazism and Islam. Hitler was one of the most popular names among Muslim children in Palestine at one time. Hitler and Himmler had praised Islam for its high correlation with their own beliefs.
I had posted on this twice, providing proof of research of Nazi-Islamic links before the (IIIrd) Reich, during the Reich, and even after the Reich. On both occassions, GB correctly removed the posting, kindly explaining to me that it was not relevant enough in the article it was appearing under.
I fully agree with him, and if the proper article context presents itself, I will, with GB’s permission, apprise you of that.
You may well scream “Heil”. I thunder “Jai Hind”.
Needless to say, previous post was mine.
Again a masterpiece skit by GB. Ms Mamata B. has shown very little signs of capability to run a state. Moreover she doesnt have the people to hold the rest of the posts other than the CM. Adding to all that is her continuous conflicts which have been quite anti-industry types. So, Trinamool doesnt seem to fit a successful socio-economic turnaround story for Bengal. But she does come accross as a person who is speaking her mind, and mostly do hold a much more legitimate will to change the face of bengal. Its a very complicated situation, if she is in the opposition the state will never grow, if she forms the government the means might not meet the will. I think at the end if we need to make a choice, I will probably go with a chance to Trinamool. Afterall how bad can it be. One advantage might be that Trinamool can easily be part of the ruling party at the center, which will definitely help the state.
HHBB- Marvelous comment above, as always.
“”Muslim rule in India was on the whole peaceful”, “Muslims introduced many liberal values in the Indian thought process”, “Islam spread through its egalitariansim”), while screaming about the INVASION THAT WASN’T (”Aryan hordes came charging down the passes”, “The Aryan invasion introduced the caste sytem in the 1,500 BC)?”
Muslims introduced many liberal values in the Indian thought process!!!
Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:)))))
watching this blog I remember that day when i was walking through the gariahat….a girl and perhaps her boyfriend was cumin through the oposite side….suddenly the girl says to her perhaps boyfriend “janoto kolkatar GARIAHAT ta na US er NEWYORK er mato”.
I loughed on her face……
Excellent piece. But it could have been Arsenal and Chelsea.
For the Anonymous dude, it’s time he grows up. There’s a whole lot of literature on secularism and he can probably get familiar with that instead of stupidly referencing it in totally irrelevant discussions.
I’m not a big fan of Southpark. But truly, Anon, do you have sand in your vagina?
was an excellent read until anonymous showed up with his relevant observations.
@ANON: nondisjunction — a failure of proper homolog separation in meiosis I, or sister chromatid separation in meiosis II can lead to aneuploidy, in which the oocyte has the wrong number of chromosomes, for example 22,X or 24,X. This is the cause of conditions like Down syndrome and Edwards syndrome. It is more likely with advanced maternal age.
Some oocytes have multiple nuclei, although it is thought they never mature.
@ hara hara bom bom –
“For example, how many of us are even remotely aware, that hardly forty years ago, at least 1 million (but possibly 3 million) Hindus were murdered and massacred in Bangladesh?”
I’ve been following your comments for some time now and I am frankly amazed at the stuff you churn out…and it saddens me to see people who maybe uninformed swallow it all up. A similar debate turned up a long time back and HHBB just chickened out having been embarrassed. Anyways I would like people to check out this comment and the whole comment section if they want:
https://greatbong.net/2008/11/15/the-terror-of-hypocrisy/#comment-668757
Maybe HHBB would stop his propaganda after this….and we can get back some sense of proportion rather than listening to hate filled fundoos.
Ashish:
Have you ever heard of the Senator Kennedy report on the massacres in Bangladesh?
I have personally seen the Library of Congress Archives giving full details in the declassified documents from 1971.
Dont commit this crime on humanity just to feel good in an argument on on a message board.
@Ashish
You can also google up “Hamoodur Rehman Committee Report” that was brought out by the West Pakistan Governement.
They have “reduced” numbers 🙂
See what those numbers are.
Amazing!
Yes I know about the Hamoodur Rehman Committee Report. HHBB and Mr. Rehman are two sides of the same coin. Both play around with human tragedies and falsify accounts to push their own hate propaganda.The logic goes that once you show enough damage done by them going damage to them gets justified. People would bring up the Guj riots and the fundoos would say: ” 2k…that’s nothing…they killed X million of ours’. The higher X is all the better to carry out more Gujarats
“Have you ever heard of the Senator Kennedy report on the massacres in Bangladesh?”
No I haven’t. In fact it was even disused on that board and nobody could come up with any proof of the 2.5 million figure ostensibly cited by the report.
My advice: Stop visiting fundoo websites and try and conduct some real research if possible
@ Ashish
The report by Senator Ed Kennedy is not online. So there is no way i can show u a copy of his disclosure, that CLOSE TO 1 MILLION OR MORE HINDUS WERE KILLED IN BANGLADESH.
But the TIME MAGAZINE will pass your secularism test.
Right?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,903638,00.html
I will love to talk to you personally sometime. Just want to understand why so much self doubt and self hate exists amongst people like you.
Also,
Newsweek Magazine (March 27, 1972) reported 1.5 million killed
National Geographic (Spetember, 1972) reported 3 million killed
@ Ashish
To put things in perspective…
http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/
“The report by Senator Ed Kennedy is not online.”
How convenient. I guess there would be no references to it in any publications of relevance too. I can only laugh.
“So there is no way i can show u a copy of his disclosure, that CLOSE TO 1 MILLION OR MORE HINDUS WERE KILLED IN BANGLADESH.”
So from 2.47 million its down to 1 million is it? The way you guys play with the dead is amazing. I’m sure within the next month I’ll have one more fundoo talking about 3 million hindu deaths in 1971—of course without a shred of evidence.
Btw, this is the exact quote from the TIME article.
Apart from costing the lives of an estimated 3,000,000 Bengalis, the repression ravaged the countryside.
Sadly, no mention of a religion wise break-up that every fundoo would have loved.
Secondly, TIME has simply used the Bangladesh Govts figure which, much like the Rahman commission, is today a highly disputed figure. Maybe one day you will understand the difference between journalism and social research.
Eh? There seems to have been an error above. The above post was by me.
Also let me make it clear that if given the chance the Pak army might very well have killed as many people as you imagined it did. I think there are enough indications of that. In fact who’s to say what Modi would have done and how many he would have killed if there was no public pressure/free press in India.
btw check this out : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/269000_died_in_Bangladesh_war/articleshow/3147513.cms
As many as 269,000 people died during the war leading to the liberation of Bangladesh in 1971, nearly five times more than the previously
estimated figure, a new study says.
The study, titled ‘Fifty years of violent war deaths from Vietnam to Bosnia: analysis of data from the world health survey programme’, published in the British Medical Journal said “war causes more deaths than previously estimated, and there is no evidence to support a recent decline in war deaths”.
Earlier estimates of casualties during the Bangladesh war were in the region of 58,000, the study noted.
This my fiend is the sort of stuff that you should be quoting to prove your point. Not imaginary reports that exist only on hate websites.
@ashish
You wrote for the 3 million reference in TIME magazine:
“Sadly, no mention of a religion wise break-up that every fundoo would have loved”.
Hey!
HHBB was being conservative to give the 1 million number.
There is certainly a dispute with the exact count of Hindus butchered (ranging between 1 million to 3 million) and nobody is denying that.
What is difficult to comprehend is that to you the magnitude of even 1 million doesnt matter.
Edward Kennedy report was submitted to the
Subcommittee on Refugee and Settlement, Senate Judiciary Committee, November 1, 1971
(referrring page 6-7)
“Field reports to the US Governement, countless eyewitness journalistic accounts, reports on International agencies such as World Bank and additional information available to the subcommittee document the reign of terror which grips East Bengal (East Pakistan). HARDEST HIT HAVE BEEN THE HINDU COMMUNITY WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF THEIR LANDS AND SHOPS, SYSTEMATICALLY SLAUGHTERED, AND IN SOME PLACES PAINTED WITH YELLOW PATCHES MARKED ‘H’. All this has been officially sanctioned, ordered and implemented under martial lawfrom Islamabad”.
Ashish wrote”
“Maybe one day you will understand the difference between journalism and social research”.
Yeah! Maybe one day I will understand.
@ Ashish
I guess thsi will pass your “secualrism” test.
Click to access ethnic_and_religious_minorities_bangladesh.pdf
@ Ashish
It will be great if you could prepare a convincing set of documents that would help everyone including “Hindu fundies” like me and HHBB understand that the number of Hindus killed (atleast 1 million, at max 3 million) is off the ballpark.
Then I can quote your research and say what the exact numbers were. A million or a dozen.
@ Ashish
” In fact who’s to say what Modi would have done and how many he would have killed if there was no public pressure/free press in India”.
Absolutely!
Who is to say that if Modi wasn’t there, another 1 million Hindus wouldn’t have been butchered in continuation of Godhra.
Afterall a 10% minority did cause more than 25% of all the casualties, and still got away with calling it a “pogrom”
Thanks to SOBs like you.
“There is certainly a dispute with the exact count of Hindus butchered (ranging between 1 million to 3 million) and nobody is denying that.”
The highest figure given for the 1971 genocide (yes 1971 was ‘genocide’ if there ever was one—refer to the ‘Blood Telegram’ for verification by Paks ally) is 3 million by Mujib himself. But then you are also saying that all those 3 million were Hindus. Sheesh! A serious problem with our math and logic eh?
Also most dispassionate observers debunk that figure provided by Mujib. The current death toll stands at approx 2.5 lakh (I’ve provided actual social research to back up my claims unlike you)-no doubt huge and horrendous (prolly the most horrendous pogrom seen in South Asia since 1947) but apparently not enough to satiate your bloodlust.
“It will be great if you could prepare a convincing set of documents that would help everyone including “Hindu fundies” like me and HHBB understand that the number of Hindus killed (atleast 1 million, at max 3 million) is off the ballpark.”
Not “Hindu fundies”. Just fundoos (or even loonies if you prefer). Mark the difference-it’s a very important one.
However I have no problem enlightening you if you are willing to read stuff that is not propaganda.
Please refer to this:
“Fifty years of violent war deaths from Vietnam to Bosnia: analysis of data from the world health survey programme”
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj.a137
The researchers are from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, University of Washington and Harvard Medical School.
It’s put the total death toll at 2.7 lakhs which, I might add to help with your math, automatically precludes 1 million Hindus dead.
“HARDEST HIT HAVE BEEN THE HINDU COMMUNITY WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF THEIR LANDS AND SHOPS, SYSTEMATICALLY SLAUGHTERED, AND IN SOME PLACES PAINTED WITH YELLOW PATCHES MARKED ‘H’”
First, let me say that I doubt this report exists, other than in your fundoo imagination. So quoting stuff from it without providing sources is a waste of time. Significantly even after 3 days you haven’t been able to prove it exists. This was very much the state of affairs on the other board too.
Having said that however I would say that the above quoted part is accurate. There is absolutely no doubt about the fact that Hindus were specifically targeted in 1971. There would be many in Pak (the Rishi Khujurs of Pakistan if you will) till today who, incredibly, blame Hindus for what happened in 1971 and even justify this holocaust. This is of course a regular pattern for violence in the sub-continent. In 1971 the Pak Army just did it ‘professionally’.
@Rishi:
Just to punch a few more holes in your argument, this is the full title of the Kennedy report you keep on harping on (without ever reading it I assume):
“Crisis in South Asia: A Report by Senator Edward Kennedy to the Subcommittee Investigating the Problem of Refugees and Their Settlement, Submitted to U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, November 1, 1971.”
In other words the report was published on November 1, 1971. Just to teach you a bit of history, the Bangladesh conflict ended on the 16th of December, 1971.
How Sen Kennedy would have the time to carry out any research and therefore publish any casualty figures (much less a religion wise break-up as you claim) is beyond me. Of course these small considerations of logic and rationality should get in your way my fundoo friend. As a fellow ideologue of yours once said: “if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”.
Hello Ashish,
I have been reading you comments with some amusement and disbelief(more latter than former) for quite some time now and would like to adress some of the issues that you have raised. I hope you will not mind me summarising your stream of thought as reflected by your comments and then providing arguments against them. To the best of my knowledge your arguments have been along the following lines:
1. HHBB and Rishi have produced figures of Hindu casualties in Bangladesh that are incorrect. According to your “Unbiased” sources the total number is much less at 267,000 and therefore claims that more than a million Hindus were massacred are false.
2. What happened in Bangladesh was part of a regular pattern of violence in the sub continent with the only difference being that this time it was done “professionally” by the Pak Army.
3. The riots in Gujarat were also a part of such regular pattern and given a free hand Narendra Modi would have killed many more Muslims than the 2000 that perished.
My respones:
1. It would be evident to any serious student of “social research” that casualty figures in any conflict that is as widespread as the one in Bangladesh was are notoriously difficult to estimate with different sources using different methods and extrapolations to arrive at a number. What is important is not the exact number but the scale, intent and ideology behind the violence. You cannot claim on the basis one source that the numbers quoted by Rishi and HHBB from a plethora of sources are out of whack and that your source is beyond reproach or bias. This becomes even more important when one glances at the some of the disclaimers in the study linked by you.
One of the disclaimers is –
“Our study has several limitations that might influence the interpretation of our results. Firstly, as the survey instrument collects information on deaths from war injuries, our estimates capture only direct violent deaths from war, not all excess deaths attributable to war. Previous studies have shown that while in some countries most war deaths result from such direct injuries,1 6 7 in other settings, such as those with less developed health infrastructure or worse overall health, violent deaths represent only a small fraction of total excess mortality.2 ”
It becoems patently obvious now that the study linked by you uses information from “war injuries only” and DOES NOT REFLECT ALL EXCESS INJURIES ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE WAR.
Your source also says that in countries with less developed healthcare infrastructure the NUMBERS REFLECT ONLY A SMALL FRACTION OF TOTAL EXCESS MORTALITY.
Needless to say since your study relies on official data on war injuries and ignores the deaths indirectly attributable to war, there is a fair chance that it significantly understates the real casualties since I am sure that the Pakistan Army professional as it was would not have admitted the Hindus it killed to a hospital or recorded the number of women it raped, as a battle honour.
While you efforts to negate the severity and barbarity of the genocide in bangladesh are unequivocally condemnable, I am more disappointed by the fact that you have shamelessly chosen to employ such a low level of subterfuge and sleight of hand to cover up one of the greatest tragedies of the sub continent.
2. I agree that it is part of a regular pattern of violence. A regular pattern where the Hindus have been constantly at the receiving end of Jihadi imperialism, a pattern where the honour of hindus has violently been debased by a barbaric ideology and a regular pattern where educated people such as yourself have tirelessly tried to cover up such acts of barbarism with specious arguments and flawed/biased studies. Yes my friend I agree it was a part of aregular pattern, like Moplah, Like direct action, like Noakhali, like gujranwala, like Kashmir…..Would you be able to cite instances with data verified by Harvard scientists where this regular pattern was did not manifest itself??? I think not.
3. My first question is would you be able to prove the veracity of 2000 muslim casualties through scientific social research done by Harvard researchers. Can your counterfactual fantasy about a million muslims being killed in Gujarat be proven by scientific social research and not “JOURNALISM”. Can your assertion that Narendra Modi was responsible for the deaths of muslims in the rioting that followed Godhra be verified with scientifically collected and analysed data.
I would not be surprised if you cannot.
A fundie is someeone who doggedly refuses to believe in anything that violates his beliefs even in the face of overarching and overwhelming evidence to the contrary – Look in the mirror my friend.
Thanks and Regards,
Sunil
Ashish
– By November 1971 Kennedy had found that much misery and butchery was going on even before the mass graves and missing villages were public knowledge.
– There are two different sources that I provided outside your derogatorily described so called “Hindu loony” sources, that refer to that report. You probably didnt read either because you were busy Googling the Times of India article (which I didnt bother to refer, given TOI’s reputation).
– Its fine not to have material to show, but typing out Kennedy’s reports title (which you yourself doubt exists) in order to prove that I am wrong and I didnt type out the whole title, takes your desperation to a new level.
The real story began to emerge after 1972 (discovery of mass graves, missing people, etc).
Note, the Time magazine article’s date. I gave that article because the Archives are availabe free online.
Besides Time, National Geographic, Wall street Journal and Christian Science Monitor, all gave the number of casuaties ranging from 1 million to 3 million (between 1972 and 1973).
All these are non-Indian sources and I assume were free from “Hindu fundoos” like me 🙂
It is funny you found the material to the ‘Blood Telegram (April 1971)’. Note, the date of the “Blood Telegrams” predates that of Senetator Edward Kennedy report.
On one hand you are questioning the Edward Kennedy report, on the veracity of the magnitude of casualties because he didnt see the whole of it, on the other hand you use the ‘Blood Telegrams’ as your resource.
Are you crazy?
I am amazed at your level of desperation. You dont have to like me dude or agree with what I am doing….many people dont.
But dont drown clutching at straws.
It would be evident to any serious student of “social research” that casualty figures in any conflict that is as widespread as the one in Bangladesh was are notoriously difficult to estimate with different sources using different methods and extrapolations to arrive at a number
To some extent, I agree. Yet I’ve heard people quote some amazing numbers (with absolute conviction and no sources) here which are far removed from what can be called the truth.
What is important is not the exact number but the scale, intent and ideology behind the violence.
You contradict yourself. The “scale” of violence can be gauged by direct mortality in a situation such as Bangladesh.
Regarding your rather puerile ‘expose’ on the disclaimer:
Firstly, data collection is not a perfect science hence errors will exist. I agree this might be a difficult point to understand for a person who cannot differentiate between journalism and social research but that is not my fault, is it? However, if you can bring to light any better sources than what I have provided I will be more than happy.
Secondly, the error you talk of outlines a case where indirect deaths caused due to conflict are not captured. For example, a patient might die of malaria because the Pakistanis blew up the only hospital in the village, so on and so forth. Only direct deaths caused by the Pakistanis have been captured. This is a standard practice in capturing conflict mortalities. For example when you here that the toll in the Guj riots was X it only includes people actually killed in the riots. If a person dies due to, say, poor sanitation in the Shah Alam camp his death will not be included in the list of casualties. You might agree with this method of conflict analysis or not, that’s up to you (although it was good enough for the British Medial Journal). If you don’t, I await some concrete data from your end, as opposed to hollow words, with bated breath.
“While you efforts to negate the severity and barbarity of the genocide in bangladesh are unequivocally condemnable, I am more disappointed by the fact that you have shamelessly chosen to employ such a low level of subterfuge and sleight of hand to cover up one of the greatest tragedies of the sub continent.”
By quoting mortality figures which are patently absurd and cooked up, it is you who is negating “the severity and barbarity of the genocide in Bangladesh”. You are making it a joke—a propaganda tool. I don’t have to resort to shame faced laced to prove that what happened in 1971 was a Genocide, no less.
@Rishi
You stared by claiming one mln hindu deaths. I am yet to see a single shred of evidence with reg to it.
I have already provided an academic paper publish in the BMJ. Please refute with verifiable sources, if possible. Calling me crazy or whatever is not going to help.
@ Ashish
-I am yet to see your explanation on the “Blood telegrams”. I think you missed the dates when you were rummaging through Wiki.
Quoting your mateial from BMJ
“The inability of surveys to capture families with no survivors is another source of downward bias; while simulation evidence suggests that these families account for only a small proportion of all mortality,42 this problem is likely to be more acute in war settings than in other high mortality settings. Overall, we think that the estimates presented here should be viewed as conservative, given these sources of downward bias. Results could also be biased upwards if deaths related to war are reported more frequently or more accurately than other deaths. The survey instrument was designed to minimise this error by asking respondents to enumerate all their siblings (both alive and dead) before answering specific questions about siblings who died. Imputation of missing year of death also corrects for poorer reporting of the timing of non-war deaths”.
The research you presented DOES NOT ACCOUNT for survey of families that left Bangladesh as well as families that were completely liquidated.
10 million refugees (UN figures) left Bangladesh (eight million being Hindus), who were never included in the survey accounting of their siblings and reported dead.
Using the standard of measurements of the survey you quote, that 10 million, which were outside the sample study, has the highest chance of losing a sibling or family to the genocide.
Ashish..I didnt begin thinking about you as someone who is crazy. I just thought of you as a rabid pseudosecular, and there are a dime a dozen of them. But the more you write…… 🙂
@ Suniel
Notice how this fellow ignores your questions 🙂
@ Ashish
I am not a fundamentalist Hindu.
In todays’ world “Fundamentalist Hindus” are a desirable lot, for most of Hindu darshanas will encourage them to strive for Moksha in the most perosnal and detached manner.
Not me. Have a long way to go.
Hello Ashish,
You have been questioning the intensity and the barbarity of the genocide by repeatedly downplaying the number of Hindu casualties brought to your notice by several members of this forum. Then you provide us a survey as justification for your actions knowing fully well the limitations of surveys in general and this one in particular.Then you accuse me of making the genocide a joke by making it a propaganda tool!!!!!.
Is stating facts corroborated by several sources propaganda?
Is asking uncomfortable questions propaganda?
Or is the fact that you quote a single survey of questionable scope to belittle a tragedy of biblical proportions the hallmark of a propagandist??
Once again – Look in the mirror my friend.
Thanks
Sunil
I will take this opportunity to enourage everyone to read this book
“Living Among the Believers: Stories from the Holy Land Down the Ganges”
http://www.easternbookcorporation.com/moreinfo.php?txt_searchstring=15076
Dr. Sachi (Sabyasachi) Ghosh Dastidar, the author of this book, has personally given me a lot of insight regarding Bangladesh, and is a Distinguished Professor of the State University of New York (SUNY) at Old Westbury.
He also runs Probini Foundation
http://www.probini.org/
Ashish…and others who would want to know more about the region of Bangladesh may find this informative.
Hello Ashish,
I forgot to add the following to my comment above. My apologies.
1.You have trivialised a genocide by calling a part of the”regular pattern of violence” on the subcontinent – What is regular about more than a millionpeople being killed forbelonging to a particular religion? What is regular about an army going beserk against unarmed civillians belonging to a particular religion? Can you please scientifically explain tous how this is regular? Willyou be able to cite academic studies by social scientists that prove comprehensively that this is regular?
If you think that you can trivialise the misery of the millions of people who suffered in Bangladesh and then engage in counter factual fantasies about Narendra Modi’s “intentions” in the same breath while accusing others of propaganda then I am afraid for all your self professed inclination for scientific social research, you are unfortunately a fundamentalist who has started believing his own propaganda.
Thanks
Sunil.
Rishi,
I am yet to see your explanation on the “Blood telegrams”
How puerile can this get? Here is my original sentence which referred to the BT.
“yes 1971 was ‘genocide’ if there ever was one—refer to the ‘Blood Telegram’ for verification by Paks ally”
You obviously have no idea of the significance of the BT–it was one of the first official documents (no less by the US) which referred to 1971 as a ‘genocide’. I used it as a reference.
Anyways, I see that you have failed miserably to give any sources for your initial claim of 1-3 mln Hindu deaths. Having failed to do that you have have attempted to trash an academic paper published in the BMJ (and your objections are laughable to anyone with even an iota of knowledge of Conflict Studies).
I’m afraid there’s no more I can do.
If this is going to become some sort of a living room discussion, then thank you, but I’m not interested. If you (or anybody for that matter) can support your initial claim with any academic documents (naturally not possible hence your attempts to deflect attention) then I will reply. Otherwise, consider this my last post.
Regards,
Ashish
P.S:
Rishi:” I am not a fundamentalist Hindu.
I know.
Hence, refer to my post on Apr 9th, 2009 at 5:44 am. Refer to the 5th para.
Trust me, reading goes a long way in dispelling ignorance—something you are in dire need of.
“Trust me, reading goes a long way in dispelling ignorance—something you are in dire need of”.
Yes bro, I agree with you on that.
We all are in dire need of reading, all the time. And ignorance is everywhere. If there wasnt, we would all be sitting under the Bodhi tree 🙂
If calling me “loony” or “fundoo”, helps you feel better, then so be it. I had rather be a loony who saves lives than be a sane MoFo.
But do read Dr Sachi Dastidar’s books. You will find more material regarding the 1-3 million Hindu “dead” dilemma.
Here is another book that we should all read by the same author
Empire’s Last Casualty: Indian Subcontinent’s Vanishing Hindu and Other Minorities (2008)
Dr Sachi Dastidar
“Empire’s Last Casualty : Indian Subcontinent’s Vanishing Hindu and Other Minorities is a study of effects of religious communalism on a pluralistic, tolerant, multi-religious society. It focuses on the loss of indigenous Hindu population from the land of their ancestors; and on changes brought about since a Multi-Religious Progressive Region of Colonial British India was partitioned in 1947, and its effects on Hindu and non-Muslim (Buddhist and Christian) minorities, on pluralism and on indigenous cultures..”
@ Ashish
“I’m afraid there’s no more I can do”.
You had not done much to begin with 🙂
I will read whatever you would want me to read, and in return you read the two books I mentioned above.
Then let us come back and continue the conversation in this forum.
Hope thats fair.
Rishi,
And I’ll show you books which state the total causality figures are 20k. So what? Tomorrow even you could publish a book putting in your loony theories.
Has this man’s research been peer reviewed? Cited by others? Produced at Conferences? Universities? Anything?
I seriously doubt it.
This is becoming a joke. It’s obvious that you have no idea of what you’re speaking of. I’d advise you to take a break from blogs and do dome serious study on conflict studies and mortality determination before you come back here and embarrass yourself further.
@ Ashish
“Has this man’s research been peer reviewed? Cited by others? Produced at Conferences? Universities? Anything?”
Why dont you find out after you read the books and known more about the author.
Googling TOI articles and finding a link to a generalized Bmj study on conflicts, which does not even sample the 10 million refugees in Bangladesh for casualty figures, does not make you qualified to talk about these issues.
“…do dome serious study on conflict studies and mortality determination before you come back here and embarrass yourself further.”
I leave that for the readers to decide.
My offer to you still stands. You read these two books and I will read anything that you would want me to study and then meet here with our inferences.
That previous message was by me. For some reason it kept Ashish’s name.
Rishi,
Why dont you find out after you read the books and known more about the author.
Ha ha. Yes, I will apparently be the authority on this man’s research, is it? Incredible! As I thought, there is nothing to back up this man’s, so called ‘research’.
Anyways, as I expected no one here could provide a shred of evidence proving what was claimed by HHBB. Of course, that’s not surprising behavior for the fundoo.
Lying is easy—proving it in the academic domain is quite another kettle of fish. In spite of contradicting research published in reputed peer-reviewed journals, these untruths are insisted on in the hope that “if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”.
Anyways, I have done my bit. I hope the next time people would think twice before making unsubstantiated claims on History.
//By quoting mortality figures which are patently absurd and cooked up, it is you who is negating “the severity and barbarity of the genocide in Bangladesh”. You are making it a joke—a propaganda tool. I don’t have to resort to shame faced laced to prove that what happened in 1971 was a Genocide, no less.//
Incredible man. This is one of the most inspring paras ive read on this blogs comments….and your right about fundoos (i love that word :)) lying. When confronted with facts they fall flat on their face unabel to support their lies… Good job man.
@ Ashish
I gave you enough evidence from the most crdible of international media sources, but you refuse to accept them, because they have not been “peer reviewed”.
I ask you to read books for evidence , but you refuse to do that, and ask question the author’s credibility.
Then you connect all the “dot” as am imaginary dream of a crazy guy, and keep repeating that in every post of yours, as if doing that established your pipe dream.
I will not be surprised that you will use this conversation as a “peer reviewed” proof in some future debate. 🙂
Not to forget, I poked the biggest hole in your so called peer reviewed generalized “researched” source, which obviously did not account for the interview of the 10 million refugees, that left Bangladesh and was never considered part of the sample study.
That is also the reason why I asked you to read the two books I suggested, as they highlight the magnitude of exodus of the families and relatives of victims who families were not completely eliminated (with numerical evidence and data ofcourse).
The sad part though is, that you just shut yourself off from any information that will challenge your ideas, becasue that will suddenly make you vulnerable to accepting me and HHBBs thoughts.
Rishi,
Not to forget, I poked the biggest hole in your so called peer reviewed generalized “researched” source, which obviously did not account for the interview of the 10 million refugees, that left Bangladesh and was never considered part of the sample study.
Please write to the BMJ about how you single-handedly “poked the biggest hole” in the “so called” research published by it. Mark a copy to the Health Metrics and Evaluation, University of Washington and Harvard Medical School too.
After all, the we were just waiting for the fundoos to destroy the reputation of one of the most respected medical journals in the world.
I gave you enough evidence from the most crdible of international media sources, but you refuse to accept them, because they have not been “peer reviewed”.
Ha ha. Look man, you give me journalism from 1972/73. I give you peer-reviewed research from 2008.
In most sane minds, it is clear which source should prevail. But to the fundoo mind…
Anyways, man it was fun playing around with you. Maybe proving the obvious is not the best utilisation of my time–after all tomorrow there might be fundoos who’d insist on the earth being flat.
Believe what you must, handicapped as you by serious shortcomings in knowledge and reasoning. I take my leave.
P.S:
I gave you enough evidence from the most crdible of international media sources, but you refuse to accept them, because they have not been “peer reviewed”.
One more thing: You have not given me a single source (even your favorite 40 year old journalistic ‘sources’ have failed you there) as to the original question: 1-3 mln Hindu deaths.
God knows from which propaganda CD you’ve got that figure from. Sigh!
Ashish – raja, tomarey selaam. Good show – thanks for speaking up for the (mostly) silent (hopefully) majority.
@ Pankaj Roy
Oye hero.
Dont think you actually read anything.
Andhon mein kana raja
@ “Pankaj Roy”
do you even read what is written?
Or are you the “pom pom” party?
@ “Pankaj Roy”
You wrote: “Ashish – raja, tomarey selaam. Good show – thanks for speaking up for the (mostly) silent (hopefully) majority.”
Which majority? Majority of Pakistanis? Or Majority of Razakars? Given your buddy’s penchant to cover up the greatest genocide of Bengalis in the past century, he definitely deserves more than just “Salaam” from you. Perhaps a Nishan-e-Imitiaz would be apt.
As for you, do realise that using the moniker of a famous Bengali cricketer could get this website into legal trouble. If I were you, I would cease and desist from impersonating real people.
@ Ashish
“Ha ha. Look man, you give me journalism from 1972/73. I give you peer-reviewed research from 2008”.
My joirnalism of 1972-73 is are all internationally accepted and renowned media sources.
Your “reviewed” material from 2008 clearly states in its disclaimers, that its information is accurate baded on the application of methodology on “available” data
I mention again, that the article DOES NOT interview 10 million refugees who left Bangaldesh (in 1971) and eight million of them were Hindus.
I will certainly write to them using the right banner, which will be under Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities. (HRCBM).
It is important to do so, just to ensure that selfish people like you dont use such material as tools for self delusion.
I still see you running away from reading the material I requested.
//You have not given me a single source (even your favorite 40 year old journalistic ’sources’ have failed you there) as to the original question: 1-3 mln Hindu deaths.//
It’s not his fault…how can he give you any proof when there is none?
@Rishi-Don’t carry on the argument for the sake of it yaar. Apolgise for claiming something you couldn’t prove and move on.
//Your “reviewed” material from 2008 clearly states in its disclaimers, that its information is accurate baded on the application of methodology on “available” data//
And the journalism bases its finding on unavailable data? 😀 😀 😀
Man you fundoos are funny!
@ GT/ ashish
It is amazing. I give you links but you dont see them. I ask to read books but you refuse to read them.
Some more links here to keep help you guys come out of self delusion
Bangladesh newspaper (owned by Muslims)
Daily star, March 24, 2009
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=80993
New York Times
Eliza Griswold
January 2005
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/23/magazine/23BANG.html?scp=5&sq=bangladesh jihad&st=cse
New York Times archives
http://select.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=F6071FF73C5E127A93C2AA178AD85F468785F9
I will scan more documents that are not avaialable online and upload it somewhere.
In the meantime, if any of you guys have any issues, seeing these links, pelase write to me at rishi_khujur@rediffmail.com
@ Ashish/gt
Rummel, Rudolph J., “Statistics of Democide: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900”
Study these tables
@ Ashish/gt
More modern reference material
A century of Genocide
By Samuel Totten, William S. Parsons
Published by Taylor & Francis, 2008
material between Pages 243- 256
“..liberation war in Bangladesh drew world attention because of the genocide
committed by Pakistan, which resulted in the murder of approximately 3 million..”
Encyclopedia of Genocides
Israel W Charny
page 115
“… BANGLADESH, GENOCIDE IN Bangladesh’s emergence as a nation in 1971 came at
the cost of three million people dead, a quarter of a million women and girls raped, ten million forced to go to India and 30 million people displaced internally..”
@Rishi Khujur,
Do you think Ashish/GT/Pankaj Roy really care to even examine the overwhelming, objective evidence you are presenting them? You are wasting your time trying to convince them.
Just like Holocaust Deniers (a la Ahmedinejad), these 3 have already made up their minds to become neo-Nazi apologists.
In fact, I think their motives are far different than mere fact-finding. They are here for a purpose (just like the proverbial Trojan Horse) – to hide behind a facade and whitewash the crimes of the Pakistani Army and Razakars against Bengalis from 1950-1971.
Posted this message before…vanished for some reason. So trying again
Some more scanned material
Death tolls from JUST 3 cities added up to a quarter million. (1972 news reports)
75,000 in Dinajpur
http://www.bengalgenocide.com/19720211dinajpur.pdf
100,000 in Khulna
http://www.bengalgenocide.com/19720204_khulna.pdf
100,000 in CHT
http://www.bengalgenocide.com/19711231_1 lak-cht.pdf
I will post more reports for major cities like Dhaka, Jessore, Rangpur which lost hundreds of thousands more.
But the real mark-up was the 10 million refugees who were in India. The real numbers came from amongst them.
I have inteviewed 5 survivors who witnessed the genocide while it was happening.
Thousands of Hindu families, in totality, were killed and thrown in the rural areas, into the mangroves of rural Barisal. There is no way anybody can account for the magnitude of their numbers, other than by looking at census data and count the difference.
Once that is done, the real numbers in the millions start showing up.
Voice of Bengal, before you get your saffron knickers anymore in a twist (& inadvertantly destroy future generations of Voices), let me reassure you that:
– I refer to the majority of readers of this blog;
– I was quoting from a song from Goopy Gyne Bagha Byne (though I stand corrected – it is “Maharaja Tomarey Selaam”, not “Raja Tomarey Selaam”)
I have no idea what a Razakar or Nishan-e-Imtiaz is.
I will let you return to your linksturbation with Maha Rishi. Keep on truckin’.
@ Pankaj Roy
When I give evidence you hate me….when I dont give enough evidence you hate me.
You are quite a malevolent soul, brother.
Rishi, it must be late night for you. What hate are you talking about? Are you confusing me with someone else?
GB..this post vanished the last time i posted it, please disregard this if the last one goes through.
Senator Ted Kennedy’s report (in detail)
I had posted part of it before
“A traveler today in eastern India cannot help but see, smell, and feel this misery. It is etched in the faces and lives of refugees in countless ways. It is the malnourished child hanging limply in its mother’s arms – one child out of a half million who, in a matter of hours or days, can easily die from the lack of protein and adequate medical care. It is a young girl, quivering in a refugee camp in Tripura, still in a shock after seeing her mother and father slaughtered by Pakistani troops. It is a 14-year-old boy in Jalpaiguri hospital, whose face is contorted from the pain and anguish that he has experienced since he saw his family shot b! efore his eyes and since he received a bullet wound in his spine which has paralyzed him for life. And it is the expression of hundreds of thousands of refugees living in sewer pipes on the outskirts of Calcutta, while overworked relief officials struggle to provide some food and shelter and hope for a needy and hopeless people.
To drive the roads of West Bengal is to tour a huge refugee camp. For miles along the old Jessore road north of Calcutta toward the border of East Bengal, literally millions of people sit huddled together waithing for food, or line up in endless queues for refugee registration cards, or simply encamp on the roadside under hastily constructed lean-tos. And each day their number continues to grow.
A. THE REFUGEE FLOW
The continuing flow of refugees into India is without parallel in modern history. In less than 200 days-from April 1 to mid-October-more people have found it necessary to flee their homes and lands in East Bengal than the total ! number of refugees generated by the IndoChina war, or the millions displaced by the natural disasters which have struck East Bengal over the past decade. In this short period, 9,544,012 refugees have been officially recorded as having crossed into India, and additional hundreds of thousands have been uprooted and victimized within East Bengal.
Since March 25th a constant stream-sometimes a flood-of refugees has crossed each day into India. The average daily influx of new refugees, according to official reports, has been 48,000-with peak periods in May and June exceeding well over 100,000 new arrivals each day. In May alone, for example, a total of 2,820,922 new refugees were registered by Indian officials.”
————————————————-
“To avoid communal (religious) clashes, the government, where possible, has tried to keep Hindus and Muslims in seperate camps, the camps being sited in corresponding communal are! as of India. Reflecting the communal representation of the refugees generally, an approximate grouping in many camps, however, is 80 percent Hindu, 15 percent Muslim, and 5 percent Christian and other.”
———————————————
“Most of the refugees, however, are poorly educated villagers – the people who make up the bulk of the population in East Bengal. We talked to with dozens of such people on the Boyra-Bongaon Road north of Calcutta, on a day when at least 7,000 new refugees had crossed the border. Nearly all were farmers. Most were Hindus, from districts south of Dacca, on the fringe of the area affected by last fall’s cyclone. Many of these people are still in visible stages of shock, sitting listlessly by the roadside or wandering aimlessly. They told stories of atrocities, of slaughter, of looting and burning, of harrassment and abuse by Pakistani soldiers and their collaborators. Monsoon rains w! ere drenching the area, making it difficult for the refugees to walk and adding to the despair on their faces. To those of us who went out that day to visit refugee areas, the rains meant no more than a change of clothes. But to those refugees it meant still another night without rest, food, or shelter.
It is difficult to erase from our minds the look on the face of a child paralyzed from the waist down, never to walk again; or a child quivering in fear on a mat in a small tent still in shock from seeing his parents, his brothers, and his sisters executed before his eyes; or the anxiety of a 10-year old girl out foraging for something to cover the body of her baby brother who had died of cholera a few moments before our arrival. When I asked one refugee camp director what he would describe as his greatest need, his answer was “a crematorium.” He was in charge of one of the largest refugee camps in the world. A camp which was originally designed to provide low-income and middle-income housing for Indians, but has now become the home for some 170,000 refugees.” (VII) The lack of crematoriums for the Hindu refugees who were dying lead to more insanity:
“The disposal of dead bodies has posed a serious sanitation problem. In the Hindu community it is customary for the dead to be cremated, but under the circumstances-including a lack of fuel and crematoriums-this has been almost impossible. In some camps local health authorities regularly remove bodies. In others, however, the disposing of bodies is left in the hands of the families involved…bodies are simply left to decompose in a ditch along the road or at the edges of the camps.”
———————————
“As the Pakistan army moved out into the countryside to “crush the Awami League,” all evidence-including the simple fact that the bulk of the refugees in India are Hindu-suggest this objective was coupled with a policy of terror directed primarily at the minority Hindu population. The following eyewitness field account-filed with the Subcommitte in August and repeated again and again in the Subcommitte files-graphically describes the plight of Hindus in recent months.
———————————————–
THe next village where we stopped was Mirakati in Barisal district. Our guide, a Hindu, showed us his house, a mound of burned out rubbish from which nothing could be saved. Everything had been burnt to the ground. Every other house in the village was burned out. When we arrived in this village there were no signs of life. However, after a time our guide made signals to a very frightened women who then emerged. She told us that she had seen her husband and child killed and that she is now left alone with one remaining child. Eight days ago the army had came aking her for 100 rupees as payment so that they would leave her alone and unharrassed.
At this ! village there was a brick and cement school that was still standing but everything inside had been burned out. There are supposedly a hundred survivors from this village who are hiding out in the surrounding villages and who are afraid to come out lest they be caught, or shot, or suffer other reprisals.
Village after village we passed was totally in ruins. Sometimes a frame of a house could be seen and at other times every thing was burned to the ground. One of the villages that we passsed was known by the name of Jagadishpur. One of our mission had visited this village previously just after the army’s reign of terror. In one of the tanks of ponds he counted about 100 heads of persons who had been killed and whose bodies were thrown into the tank.
——————————————
Of the 36 Hindu villages in the area we visited, they estimated that the maximum number of former inhabitants who have still remained in the area, even though they may be in hiding, would not go beyond 20% to 25%…At present it is the Muslims who are working the Hindu-owned lands. But everywhere we went on the trip the rice fields were unattended. The only exceptions were these Muslims farming Hindu land. In one village, the original population was about 1,500, of which 100 were killed, 100 remain in hiding in the surrounding area, and the rest have fled.
In some areas, according to eyewitness reports in the late summer, Pakistan troops were painting large yellow “H” signs on Hindu shops, so as to identify the property of the minority which had become a special target. To show they were not Hindus, members of the Muslim majority-although not fully exempt from the army’s terror-were painting sign saying “All Muslim House” on their homes and shops. In turn the small community of Christians were putting crosses on their doors and stitching crosses in red thread on their clothes. Not since Nazi Germany were so many citizens of a country publicly marked with religious labels and symbols.
To do comment further the mark put on Hindus, additional reports to the Subcommittee have stated that the bank at Barisal was instructed at one point to freeze Hindu deposits. Morever, when units of the Pakistani army later arrived in Barisal, eyewitness accounts say soldiers drove through the streets with loudspeakers announcing a 25 rupee reward for information as to the whereabouts of Hindu residents.
A palpable fear has gripped East Bengal since the devastating night of March 25th. The World Bank Mission, after spending several days traveling throughout East Bengal in early June, was forced to conclude:
“Perhaps most important of all, people fear to venture forth and, as a result, commerce has virtually ceased and economic activity generally is at a very low ebb. Clearly, despite improvements in some areas and taking the Province as a whole, widespread fear among the population has persisted beyond the initial phase of heavy fighting. It appears that this is not just a concommitant of the Army extending its control into the countryside and the villages off the main highways, although at this stage the mere appearance of military units often suffices to engineer fear. However, there is also no question that punitive measures by the military are continuing; even if directed at particular elements (such as known or suspected Awami Leaguers, students, or Hindus), these have the effect of fostering fear among the population at large. At the same time, insurgenct activity is continuing. This is not only disruptive in itself, but also often leads to massive Army retaliation. In short, the general atmosphere reamins very tense and incompatible with the resumption of normal activities in the Province as a whole.”
Report after Report over the summer months echoed the findings of the World Bank Report-as did hundreds of interviews with refugees in India, including new arrivals, by members of the Subcommittee’s field team. The emergence of Be! ngali guerilla units, known as Mukti Bahini (Liberation Forces), have brought an added dimension to the violence and chaos and fear throughout East Bengal. A dispatch from Faridpur district, published in The New York Times on September 23, describes the continued violence as follows:
Nira Pada Saha, a jute trader in Faridpur District told of a reprisal against a village near his that had sheltered and fed the guerillas. Just before he fled five days ago, he related, the army struck the village, first shelling it then burning the huts. “Some of the villagers didnt run away fast enoght,” he said.”The soldiers caught them, tied their hands and feet and threw them into the flames.”
There were about 5,000 people in the village, mostly Hindus, Mr. Saha said, and not a hut is left. According to the refugees, the army leaves much of the “dirty work,” to its civilian collaborators-the razakars, or home guards-it has armed and to the supporters of right-wing religio! us political parties such as the Moslem League and Jamaat-i-Islami, which have usually backed the military regime.
The collaborators act as as intelligence agents and enforcers for the army, the refugees say, by pointing out homes and villages and people who have helped the guerrillas. Often, the refugees added, the collaborators make arrests at random and for no reason. “The razakars and the others come into a village and pick just any house,” said Dipak Kumar Biswas, a radio repairman from Barisal District. “Then they arrest whatever able-bodied young man is in that house and hand him over to the army. We don’t know what the army does to them. They never come back.”
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“Nothing is more clear, or more easily documented, than the systematic campaign of terror-and its genocidal consequences-launched by the Pakistani army on the night of March 25th. Field reports to the U.S government, countless eye-witness journalistic accounts, reports from international agencies such as the World Bank, and additional information available to the Subcommitte document the continuing reign of terror which grips East Bengal. Hardest hit have been members of the Hindu community who have been robbed of their lands and shops, systematically slaughtered, and, in some places, painted with yellow patches marked “H”. All of this has been officially sanctioned, ordered and implemented under martial law from Islamabad. America’s heavy support………
@ bengal voice
write to my email id when u get a chance.
@Punk-ass Roy (not to be confused with any genteel cricketer)
You speak for the “majority” of readers of this blog? Since when did other readers prefer to identify with your malefic depths of ignorance?
And notwithstanding your inveterate obsession for knickers, you need to grow some gray cells first.
The brainwashed ignoramus that you are, of course you wouldn’t know who a Razakar is. If you did, you wouldn’t be here giving your “salaam” to another “Bengali Genocide Denier” who is doing his best to whitewash the Genocide of 1971.
BV, there you go off again on your rant. Read again – I referred to readers of this blog who I HOPE are in the majority, albeit silent. I don’t pretend to speak for them, I just hope THEY are in the majority, & not sad, bitter & attention-deficit haters mongering injustices of questionable provenance from generations past.
Rishi, I think you have more words on this blog than GB himself. Congratulations!
@ Pankaj Roy
Congratualte those sceptic, who rightly, question every sentence that I write.
It gives me an opportunity to share information, that otherwise for political reasons, are shoved under the carpet.
It matters, especially for Bengal, because there is not much time left.
I appreciate though, that even though it is in your interest to oppose me, given your background, you maintain a level of objectivity and decorum that many psecs Hindus overlook.
I see the chaddis are still at it. I mean the absurdness of you views can be taken from the way your statements and sources contradict each other
I)
Rishi Earlier: “The report by Senator Ed Kennedy is not online. So there is no way i can show u a copy of his disclosure, that CLOSE TO 1 MILLION OR MORE HINDUS WERE KILLED IN BANGLADESH.”
Rishi now: Produces the elusive report but the 1 million figure is magically missing. No sources given too.
II)
Rishi earlier: There is certainly a dispute with the exact count of Hindus butchered (ranging between 1 million to 3 million) and nobody is denying that.
Rishi earlier: Newsweek Magazine (March 27, 1972) reported 1.5 million killed
Rishi now: “liberation war in Bangladesh drew world attention because of the genocide committed by Pakistan, which resulted in the murder of approximately 3 million..””
How the range for Hindu casualties can be 1-3 million when according to your sources total deaths are 3 million/1.5 million is very indicative of your state of mind.
Well its been quite some time now….when will the number of Hindu casualties be revealed to us oh great fundoo? Showing us the wretched state of the country in 1971 is besides the point. Everybody here aggress on the fact that it was a horrible, horrible Genocide. Some of us don’t need to lie though.
@ GT
The argument began with the following quote of HHBB
“that hardly forty years ago, at least 1 million (but possibly 3 million) Hindus….”.
I never diverged from that point.
Read MY POSTS since then, INCLUDING THE LINKS.
READ, I beg you.
As I told someone before.
“Dont die clutching at straws”
@ Bengalvoice
You could be right.
Some of these people are not interested in the material. They just have a few patent words like “fundoo”, “knickerwala”, etc, that they have told themselves they have to use in whatever way possible.
The posts they write just revolve around these words.
@JB,
Kindly read through the TOS and do noy litter this blog-space by plunking in random links in unrelated blog-posts.
[Original comment removed]
@ those concerned
Based on census data, most scholars, irrespective of which side of the border they consider home, are agreeing in recent years; that the percentage of Hindus killed during the ” Bangladesh liberation war” is more than the usually accepted 80% number.
It is being realized now, that during 1972-73, the Government of India under-reported the casualty figure amongst Hindu refugees, in order to maintain “communal harmony”.
While our debate that was going on, I spoke to Dr Sachi Dastidar. He and Dr Humayun Azad, both felt that the percentage numbers for Hindu dead could be as high as 90%.
I will post material from their work in future discussions.
I left for a business trip on 8 April, so though I caught Ashis’ point and wanted to respond, I did not have time to do so.
I also did not to access this wesbite during my trip, as my trip was in an Islamic country.
I have returned on Saturday, and am excited to see a lot of interest has been generated on this. I am very busy with office and personal matters, but will try to frame a good response in the next 2-3 weeks.
I think Rishi and Bengal Voice have provided excellent points. To complete it, I shall present the Bangladesh holocaust in the form of a ‘proper study’, drawing upon all major and relevant themes. The aim of the study will be to address and answer three key questions :-
1. Was the Bangladesh holocaust a “genocide of millions”, or merely a “slaugher of lakhs”.
2. Was the Hindu community so clinically and throughly targeted, that we can assume they formed at least 70-80% of the casualties, like the Jews in Poland?
3. Is there any objective and reliable study, that support the number of Hindus killed in the millions (needless to say, there is. ;-). I shall provide details of this).
Thanks Ashis for giving me the oportunity to present this in the form a proper study. There have been others who requested me to oblige them on historical topics. Three that spring to mind are :
– “the so-called touted Hindu-Muslim harmony during 1857 as proof of overall Hindu-Muslim amity”. I had proved that Hindu-Muslim relations were extremely strained during 1857. What began as a morganatic marriage to topple the common British enemy, soon acquired the characterisitc traits of traditional Hindu Muslim enmity.
– “Islamic attacks only began in 1200”. I had proved, through the history of Sindh, that a furious conflict developed from the early 600s.
– “Hindutva and Nazism are close”. I had compiled a study on far from Hindutva and Nazism being close (Savarkar urged Hindus to fight against the Nazis), it was Islam that cultivated very close links with Nazism. GB decided not to post this for issues of relevance. If the opportunity presents itself, I shall have the good fortune of apprising you of this as well.
Anyway, I have enjoyed obliging all these people. I shall enjoy obliging you as well, Ashis.
PS : Where I wrote :-
Was the Bangladesh holocaust a “genocide of millions”, or merely a “slaugher of lakhs”.
I wanted to say :
Was the Bangladesh holocaust a “genocide of millions”, or “MERELY” (SIC) a “slaugher of lakhs” !!
@HHBB,
Welcome back !!! It would be great if you could post your study online as a PDF or webpage, so people can access the link directly.
@ the so-called “P.Roy”
You brayed: “I just hope THEY are in the majority, & not sad, bitter & attention-deficit haters mongering injustices of questionable provenance from generations past.”
Of course, I am sure you keep hoping that “apathetic, lazy, emasculated Bengalis who silently condone the demographic invasion of Bengal and those who couldn’t care less about the on-going annihilation of Bengalis from their ancestral homeland” are in the majority. And why wouldn’t you? After all, it best suits the virus when the host’s immune system is asleep.
And look who’s talking, buster!!! If you deign to look carefully past your attention-deficit skull, YOU are the brown-skinned lackey of crafty, non-Indian bigots whose ulterior motive is to foist the sad, bitter, hate-filled agenda of questionable provenance from centuries past on an unsuspecting Bengali populace (MY PEOPLE). I have nothing but the deepest pity for you and your predicament. I, on the other hand, am only pointing out to your diabolical agenda of whitewashing the silent, ongoing genocide of my OWN people (Bengalis) in my OWN land (Bengal) during my OWN lifetime. Of course, I know quite well why you and your masters would have a problem with that. But I don’t understand why Ashish would have a problem with that.
That’s why I say: http://mohitoz.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/law-of-mamata-banerjee/