I just do not understand all this finger-pointing, all the “there is a strong undertone of racial ill-feeling towards Indians in Australia” canard that is getting play in the popular Indian press.
Give me a break mite.
I mean if there is one society that is sensitive to racism it has to be the Australian. Remember all that outrage in the Aussie Press when Harbhajan (whose cousin’s death in Australia was passed off as “suicide” apparently without a post-mortem) supposedly called Symonds a “monkey” and sections of the crowd made simian gestures at that same man. At that point of time, I remember the Australian press telling us how sensitive the country is about issues of race, sensitive in a way that us Indians, with a history and continuing tradition of caste, cannot even comprehend.
When some Indians, jingoistic as they are, tried to make the argument that noone in India saw Symonds as black (since he is whiter than most Indians) and that Symonds with his tough abusive shoulder-charging playing philosophy was raising the bogey of racism to hide the fact that he couldn’t take on-field abuse it half as good as he gave , we were told that we were justifying the most vicious form of racism. They were right of course. Having had a “White Australia policy” as recent as 1973, they sure are better qualified to understand the concept of racism and identify it than us casteists.
Which is why I totally believed the police head dude when he said that the recent spate of attacks on Indians in Australia were not racist in nature but merely opportunist since Indians are perceived as weak,an impression that may have been strengthened after watching Venkatapathy Raju bowl. Now again a case may be made that the perception of vulnerability follows directly from the color of skin making this classic racism. It could also be argued that since the motivations behind the acts were primarily hate and not just simple “crime” for the sake of pecuniary benefit, calling the whole thing “non-racial” sounds like, to paraphrase the famous Fosters commercial, “Australian for hogwash”. But of course the police are right. This is Australia you see.
So what are these assaults if not racism or as it is known “curry-bashing” ? I would say that these are isolated lapses in security on the part of the Australian administration, a minor stain of chicken masala on their spotless whites. After all, this is a country which takes security very seriously. If someone even passes a noisy fart in the brown swamps of the subcontinent, they call off cricket tours on the grounds of threats to their well-being (unless of course they are being paid some hundred thousands in dollars). Surely being so paranoid about safety especially that of guests, the police would make sure that a group of foreigners who were in hospital after being brutalized (one fighting for his life) would not have their rooms burgled (actually cleaned out, not even a scrap of their belonging reportedly remain) by the same set of “opportunist” Aussies a few days after they had been attacked. Of course they would. Which is why it never happened. Opportunists who beat up four people and then come back to rob their houses a few days later, all of course without the police lifting a finger, could only happen in “third world countries” (quote: Monsieur Hayden). Right?
Police inaction. In Australia. Never? See the protesting Indians being dragged off the streets for peaceful protest. See police brutality on Indians. Number of Indians arrested for protesting= 18. Number of opportunists brought to book so far. Emm. Okay.
A few comments on messageboards, probably from some locals, have also been pretty convincing in their line of reasoning. In essence what they say is that if things in Australia are so bad, why dont the reeking of curry Indians go back to their little hell-hole and stop taking Australian jobs (like they do when they play local Australian tournaments like IPL) ? The argument is pretty logical when one considers that the students who had been attacked were “contributors” to the Australian economy through their tuition dollars, the potential loss of which has apparently led to widespread concern among educators and may or may not be the reason why the Australian government is “mulling” hate-crime legislation.
Finally the fundamental fact remains, as many Indian commentators are quick to point out, Indians are the most racist people in the world. Do not we make racist comments at students from the North East and the exchange student from Nigeria? We should put our own house in order before we can point fingers at people pointing sharp objects and chucking firebombs at us.
So honestly people. Go easy on the whining. Geez.
A screwdriver please bartender.
119 thoughts on “Race Saanson Ki”
First to comment, But what happened in Australia is too bad. I think things changed a lot after Australia lost Cricket series. I wonder what would happen if we retain the cup by defeating Australia in finals… Interesting thing to watch.
I pray to god to shower them with some peaceful thoughts and show them the path in right direction leading straight to Satan.
With no intention to let the Australian authorities go off the hook for all that is happening….
It should be mentioned that, often the “racial” attacks on people of “Indian” ethnicities in Australia, are perpetrated by individuals and groups of Middle Eastern and North African origin.
Lebanese, Somali immigrants to name a few.
I am sure people from Australia in this forum can shed more light on this.
Indians have always had a fetish for the white skin colour. And….we have the habit of carrying cash instead of plastic when we go out making us more viable targets.
Its really sad, all these events. What has suddenly happened to trigger these, God knows.
Spot on! I think, the Indian students ought to walk around armed, this way they might get a reputation for being strong.
Well, way back when desis started making New Jersey their home, the white populace around that area did something very similar, they went around targetting desis and one time they pushed a parsi guy around he pushed right back and got murdered. After this incident the Patels and other ‘weak’ constituents of the desi expats decided that enough was enough and formed their own gangs and as a result the offending parties ( whites in this case ) decided to take it easy and moved out of the desi areas. This is a true story I kid you not, maybe this region of australia needs something similar. I agree about indians being targeted because they come across as weak, but thats because of the way they carry themselves and stick together all the time and such. I knew a group of guys that would never look someone in the eye in a foregin country but would screw each other over without a second thought.
All things said and done, the kid who is in the hospital in a coma, my heart goes out to his family because this is the last thing you expect to happen when you send a child off across the sea’s to study /work. Hope he gets better.
A screwdriver please bartender.
Self-propelled or the other kind?
O I am in for a big one.
Now I live in perth not melbourne and from what i understand is that Sharvan had a fight with some people and he threw a brick at their car.
Now this is just a brawl gone bad.
Yes the suspects have not been arrested so far but…but…Australia is big ..if they are smart they must have left melbourne and by now some where in the out back.
Now here is how i want to go about this argument
Let us first begin by defining racism
Remember Gandhi being thrown out of a train from a first class compartment inspite of having a first class ticket…That is racism
What not is racism?
Being mugged for walking in a bad neighborhood.
Victoria is not a safe place to live… let me be very frank with you.people get mugged and beaten everyday there.Muggers do not discriminate between Indians or Australians….who are Australians anyway they are all migrants too.
This is a simple case of crime rate.Nothing to do with race
You know what racism is ?
If you want examples of racism then it would be you not getting a job on the basis of your color. This does not happen in Australia. Indians are present is all the posts in Australia, from petrol pump attendant to a highly paid executive in good MNC.
Do you know on a average 7 people get mugged every day in Victoria ?
Please do not take me in a wrong sense My best sympathies with sharvan but you must also understand that if some one were walking in bihar in the middle of night he would be safe either
I second to what you wrote, Da. Any form of racism is not healthy and what happened out there in Australia should not be tolerated and a stern action should be taken on all damn counts.
You know till yesterday i had the same opinions as what uve jsut stated above.And i was enraged enough to write about it in a public forum where there are ppl from all over.And people spoke and spoke sense plus after what toi qouted today and what mr tejaswy just mentioned above, it precipitated a slight change in thoughts.Ill just mention a few bullet points
o Indian students mostly,not being financially well off stay in very lowly areas where crime rate is high.Hnce the opputunistic crimes.
o Cricketers being a prime example we can simply say we are very weak physically and also meek to a certain extent which makes us perfect targets
o Reports that mugging rates are actually high in certain areas irrespective of your color(weak targets are obvioulsy the first choice) is true and corroborated in a TOI article.
o Till one doesnt fight back and show some resilience even god cannot help.Ill cite a very simple example , in india if a guy from south india (known to be very quiet and usually introverts) comes to a north indian univ/state ,they are usually bullied and made fun of.This analogy when u extend to australia tantamounts to beating since they are inherently very aggresive animals.
Cricketing eg again(Im a cricket fanatic :P)I distictly remember an incident when mr javagal srinath bowled and the delivery broke michal slaters bat.It happens.But mr srinath started apologizing for god knows wat??and michael slater just pissed of vented out all his anger at srinath by giving him a mouth ful and srinath like a meek dog with its tail b/w its legs turned and left.
o When the govt doesnt care about the citizens who wud give two hoots abt u.On cnn ibn they showed any such incident involving a ‘developed’ nations national ,immediately a special convoy of 5 vehicals come to pick up that person and then the matter is taken up by the embassy itself.
o Some have been hate crimes and that is just sad.And its not just aus i guess uk is notorious too for hate crimes.Some things will never cease to vanish.Hard fact.
From “what you understand” about Sharvan is pure heresay and the worst kind of blaming the victim I have seen in recent times. Remember if it was something that you understood correctly, then the Australian press would have flashed it all over by now and the police and the government would have used it to squirm their way out of this hole. At the very least, the police would not be saying that Sharvan was weak.
Firebombing, screw-driver stabbings and houses of injured people getting burglarized while they are in the hospital: yet you say this is just “crime”? How many homes of non-Indian people have been firebombed in the seediest of neighbourhoods?
When you say “Do you know what racism is” and then give a laughable answer, you betray your ignorance of the difference between social racism and institutionalized racism.
Its not funny how Indian media has so quickly forgotten one racist asshole named Raj Thackeray who was attacking and driving out north Indians from Mumbai in a similar way. They don’t even call him a racist anymore and would perhaps describe him as ‘practitioner of divisive politics’. So I guess 21 percent of Mumbai’s voting population who voted for Raj are not racist, but gullible dupes of divisive politics.
I have been living here for over a 6 months now.I have not come across any racist comments.(look at my blog)Yes if you go out in the streets at the middle of the night you will be mugged,It doesn’t matter if you are a Indian or a Australian or an American.
So tell me what is the difference between social racism and institutionalized racism.
No seriously,I don’t know.
I’ll repeat what i said before Victoria is not a safe place.
A mugger will not differentiate between a Indian and an Australian
Regarding Shravan,the Australian press has flashed it in new paper.That is how i gotta know.
Well I will call it crime as ..well it is a law and order problem…isn’t it? you might wanna tell me about difference between social racism and institutionalized racism in this.
I have no idea about the petrol bombings so i will not comment on that.
But I will take it as a stray incident.
I would request that you have a full read of my article in my blog before you reply.
@George: I remembered hearing that story about NJ too. Only thing that I heard different is that the perpetrators were Hispanics and not whites. I think the same thing is happening in Australia: the local (lazy/ unsuccessful) populace hates to see Indians successful, so they want to teach them a lesson.
@Tejaswy: Agreed that walking around in a shady neighbourhood is unsafe for everybody. However, how do you explain the specific hushing up of the attacks on Indians and the police brutality on peaceful Indian protesters? I am sure this kind of attacks and subsequent burglery in the victims’ house does not happen to everybody (read whites) around that place! Maybe you won’t recognize racism unless you are a victim.
Try blocking Connought place in delhi and then see how Delhi police reacts
The Indian students blocked a road causing a jam.They were dragged away.One of cops hand was bitten by some student.
The protesters then chanted and cheered as they marched down Swanston St gridlocking trams.
The demonstration then moved to the intersection outside the station where, witnesses said, the protesters threw shoes, water bottles and other objects at the station’s clocks, breaking stained glass windows above the entrance, when police tried to break up the sit-in.
Not so peaceful now huh!
So every time a Indian gets mugged or robbed any where in the world will you start crying “Racism”.
So getting mugged comes under Social or Institutionalized Racism ?
Victoria is not a safe place to roam at night,Just like LA in USA.
I have heard pretty nasty stuff about it. A law and order problem.
Australian Mainstream Media:
“IF we weren’t so scared of seeming racist, we wouldn’t now seem so, er, racist that even India is giving us lectures.
Amazing, that. India, which perfected the caste system and is plagued by Hindu-Muslim bloodfests, is telling us we’re too prejudiced?
But we have only our own stupidity and grovelling self-hatred to blame.
After all, which nation has spent so much apologetic cash and sweat to persuade the world we are vomiting with racism, and which has been, on the other hand, too militantly anti-racist to point out who is actually bashing many of these Indian students?”
Tejaswy, care to suck up to this? I heard there are giving 5 free immigration points to anyone who can go and say Australia is not racist !
I agree with tejaswy here….
i mean all we get to know is from the media amd we all know that we’ll hear only what they want us to hear.
They are no saints…when will u watch watever theyre showing,when theyll get to ur emotional side..
all they showed was police dragging indian students s…
We see police latchi charges everyday on tv in very peacful rallies , but we do not utter a word.
Just liek u can fight with ur brother/sis all day , call him/her names but the moment an outsider dare raise a finger ur ready to chop it off..
I agree few attacks have been racist but as i said earlier racism is something that will prevail.But majority have been oppurtunistic and media is way overplayin wat has actually happened/
You must respect the local law.The streets that they were jamming had some historical importance and was a busy highway.If you are expecting a Munna bhai treatment where the cops give you a flower and ask you to move then I am sorry ..Aussies have not seen munna bhai.
If you read a little further in the same page by the same author you will find your answer
It also hurts just the same whether you’re Indian, English or a Colac farmer, so we should be angry that it’s not just Indians being bashed, but people born right here who are kicked unconscious at railway platforms, glassed in pubs, shot in Flinders St or pack-attacked to death outside nightclubs.
A little more..this time by an Indian.
When I first arrived to study at the University of Sydney from India in the middle of 2005, I had to attend four orientation sessions as an international student. At most of them, I was told that Sydney was not the safest city in the world. I was told that I should take certain precautions when walking in certain parts of the city, or anywhere really late at night. From then on, I always had an inherent and latent fear of being attacked while walking late at night along neighbourhood streets.
Four weeks ago, I was attacked by two 16-year-old boys seeking my money as I made my way back from work. It was a mugging attempt in Glebe, apparently not uncommon, and thankfully I passed through it relatively unscathed.
I don’t believe it was racially motivated, and similarly, I suspect most attacks on international students are not. We must be careful not to assume they are, just because the victims are of a different race to their attackers.”
You might also want to read my blog to get a further clarification on my stand.
Well, for the benefit of my fellow RTDMers, I would like to point out that after James Cook’s discovery of Australia in 1770, it was used as a penal colony by the British.
Penal colony: a settlement used to exile prisoners and separate them from the general populous by locating them in a remote location, often an island or distant colonial territory.
So you see, Australia was actually some sort of Kaalapaani, before it became what it is today.
Racism is bigotry according to the colour of someone’s skin.
Casteism is bigotry according to someone’s surname.
Therefore, you cannot compare them.
Indians have an intrinsic ability to make fun of people from different cultural backgrounds; and we do classify some according to which part of the country they come from.
But to extend the notion of a caste system which although prevalent, is prevalent only is the smaller cities and towns of India, to colour all Indians as “racist” is not only incorrect, it denotes the existence of something that really does not take place.
I’ve lived in 3 cities in my life (Delhi, Madras and Washington DC) and not once in India did I see or hear of anyone being subjected to a caste based attack. It happens in the semi-urban and rural hinterland, yes, but that is not the same India that I grew up in (which should be the sort of India that comes about in the next 50 years).
So your comment that Indians are racist, when no one I know is and I have never witnessed it, despite living in India for 24 years makes me extremely angry. It is a sort of pretentious humility that you’re aspiring to when you say that.
In Washington DC, I’ve seen enough and heard enough of race based attacks, to completely refute this idea that Indians are racists. Yes, we make fun of each other, but we have to.
If we were truly so terrible in our attitudes, how the hell do you explain how our country has mostly stayed united for the last 60 years? Go on, tell me, Mr. Know it all.
And when was the last time you heard of white people being systematically beaten up for being rich?
Now, you will say Indians are weak and don’t like violence.
On the issue of Africans being targeted:
They are not being targeted for their skin colour but for their physical appearance. In this respect, it is not very different from what white people were doing in the 19th and early 20th century.
So in a sense, that is racist.
However, the undercurrent feeling that drives the attitude could be different. Most of the white racial attacks were driven by a belief of superiority; I don’t believe most Indians’ race based verbal attacks are driven by this.
It is more driven by a stupid idea of a joke; by ignorance and not by a fundamental feeling of “we are better than you”.
If you cannot distinguish between race and caste, then you’re being ignorant.
I was rounded up, provoked, taunted and almost attacked by a group of around 8 neo-nazis in Leipzig, Germany a few years ago…The abuse and taunts started happening in the tram and got shriller as I got off ..The tram had quite a few people, but nobody came forward..Was not a pleasant experience…The things that kept me from fighting back were their strength in numbers and the knowledge that going against well built germans would certainly cause broken bones which might lead to a precarious situation at the hospital since I was still not transferred to the German state health insurance system…The other time I was in the tram and one of these Hells Angels styled tattooed huge 6 foot six or something muscular guy knocked on the window of the tram at a station…This happened in broad daylight and the tram was brimming wih people..After knocking the window and grabbing my attention he started showing the middle finger…I also started showing him back the middle finger…Then he started to convey the message that my neck should be hacked by enacting a hacking action…LOL!! I also did the same thing….As this whole scene happened for around 3 quarters of a minute all the other passengers in the tram and bystanders in the station started to look the other way pretending that the whole thing never happened..!! These days I live in the erstwhile west germany so would the chances of attacks happening are quite low..But one thing for sure If I ever again face potentially threatening situations like this I would fight back tooth, nails and claws knowing fully well that the Health machinery won’t disregard me!! The sense of hurt and slight becomes too much when you experience situations like this..So nex time I won’t be pussy footed any more…The friend of a good ethopian friend of mine was stabbed in Leipzig..He learnt from it and carries self protection in the form of a knife always..Mind you he is no ruffian, rather a PhD student..If you are an Indian residing in racially tense areas, I suggest you at least caary a table knife or a fork..Even if that is too much for you just have a hand in your pocket with keys in between your fingers with the point ends protruding out..I am all for silent protests anf all other associated legititimate form of manfestations..But when push comes to shove the only things that are capable of defending you are your brains and your body…One thing that I remember from that night in leipzig is that all of the neo-nazis were young teenagers..around 16-18…Sad really..But that doesnot mean I will be softie with these sons of Hitlers should O ever come to meet them..Seems like Australia is fast becoming like the bad lands of former east germany…Where the perpetrating minority is given tacit support by the silent majority
And I can tell you, most University campuses in the US are also unsafe.
It would appear that’s the same in Australia.
So, no, it is evidently not a country that takes security seriously.
@Tejaswy: So, according to you
1. Shravan got involved in a fight (Perhaps he started it?) in a shady neighbourhood that he should have avoided.
2. The Indian demonstrators got their just desserts for protesting and even going as far as to bite a policeman’s thumb.
3. Victoria is unsafe. Stay out of bad neighbourhoods and all will be well.
I have a different version to the Australian newspaper one published in TOI http://bit.ly/NX1Py . It also quotes local Austraians, including Damian Ridgwell, Swinburne University Student Union president as saying that “I witnessed police officers stomp on a student’s chest. Other police officers repeatedly punched students in the face. A sitting protester was knocked unconscious by repeated punches to the head by a policeman,”
And, this report, again in TOI, summarizes all the attacks in the last couple of weeks. http://bit.ly/14FtSL
One was in Sydney where a petrol bomb was hurled through the window of Rajesh Sood.
One another was to Nardeep Singh in his college car park.
In 2 weeks about 8-10 students of a particular race/ nationality are targeted but, nothing “racial” about it.
So, Indians get eff’ed. Whether by drunken non-racist bullies or non-racist, non-white supremacist Australian policemen.
So, Sydney is not safe, Melbourne is not safe. We have your word that Perth is.
BTW, why is Kevin Rudd calling up Manmohan Singh and promising action? Surely a simple law and order problem could have been handled at a much, much lower level?
Best of luck, mite! I hope they don’t come for you in Perth!
“The string of assaults on Indian students in Australia has now gone up to six in 22 days. ”
Out of ??
The total number of assaults reported to police in a month come to a healthy average of 100 per city.
International students should be provided security No doubt about that.
Indian students contribute to some $2 billion dollar to the Australian universities.I am guessing that is why Rudd is so concerned.
I’ll repeat what I had said earlier.
Try blocking Connought place in delhi and then see how Delhi police reacts.NO MUNNA BHAI THERE.
1.Shravan thing was a brawl gone horribly wrong.
Petrol bomb incident
“”This area is not safe,” he said, adding that another neighbor across the road had been robbed by as many as 14 men right outside his unit.”
Right from the horses mouth.
We are just playing the racism card.If i were denied a job based on my color and race.That’s racism for me.
Rudd forms Indian violence taskforce
Well you hardly get to see any people in Perth ,its deserted.Thanks for your concern though 😀
If Australia is racist counntry, I would like to know how many of desis are planning to go back?? I bet if given chance, 80% of Indians would like to migrate to Australia.
“See the protesting Indians being dragged off the streets for peaceful protest. See police brutality on Indians.”
So it’s ok to block roads and disrupt daily life? I guess that’s the Bong way. Protests, bandh, chakka jam.. I didn’t know it, I learned all this from this blog.
Australia is racist, US is racist, Germany is racist, Malaysia is racist so is Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay, Madras…..
@RichAndFamous: “I bet if given chance, 80% of Indians would like to migrate to Australia.”
What’s the bet, I would like to know? You are speaking on behalf over 800 million people (many of who have no idea where Australia is, and many of whom are reluctant to even leave their village and move to the cities), and since you are rich and famous, I smell some quick money here! 😀
@Tejaswy: So the Indian media lied? Only the Australian media is telling the truth? Aah… that explains a lot. It’s just as I feared…
I live in Sydney and have not come across any racist attacks for the past 4 years. I think the Indian media just drummed up the story as they dint have any other worthwhile news as the elections/IPL has got over:)
I spoke to my friend in Melbourne and she said violence in general has gone up in Melbourne and most of the attacks were opportunistic as the police says. Some were racial I do accept but it is not like how the indian media has projected it out to be.
I have to agree though that there are subtle bits of racism.for instance in the bank I work for(one of the major ones), very very few Indians rise high up in the ladder. The ones that I know off are first or 2 generation Indians…so yeah racism is there but it is not that worse that would stop making indians come out here.
Thanks for making it clear that you are not racist like the rest of our pathetic country when you insinuate that it is the “bong” way to carry out stuff like chakka jam, bandhs etc.
In case you are no longer tethered to and sheltered by your non-bong garden of eden and learned what bandhs, morchas etc are from this “bong” forum, might I remind you that there have been violent protests carried out repeatedly by non-bong people recently – like the gujjars in 2007-08 who are as bong as zaid hamid is sane and recently by the jatts in punjab, the tamil diaspora in protest of LTTE’s annihilation etc …
But be rest assured my friend, they were all inspired by the bongs – it is probably richandfamous’s turn now to inspire few others to put screwdrivers in these bong skulls.
Just a pointer GB: Nephew doesn’t mean cousin.
Hi – just wanted to add my thoughts.
First of all – great post – the issues are not black and white as many are seeming to make it and I’m glad you showed sorta both views.
I have lived in Australia all my life and live in Melbourne where the protests happened a few days ago. I blogged about it as well just now and then saw ur post.
I have to say I agree with Tejas – the problem currently is actually a rising amount of street violence. To date any of the attacks have not had any indication that they have been racially motivated. The areas where the attacks have been done on Indian students are ‘poorer’ areas what are known not be as safe as other suburbs. Over the last couple of years, these areas are what Indian students can typically afford and tend to congregate there. Which brings to logic, that crime is going to happen and if there are a higher amount of Indians in those areas, there’s a better chance it will happen to them.
It doesn’t mean I am condoning the attacks in any way – of course the Indian student community here is going to feel scared as the majority of the attacks have been on their countrymen. The protests were a peaceful way of trying to bring light to the situation. The media really has placed the race card in this whole thing. But to say all of Australia is racist is wrong…
The so-called police brutality is completely untrue – many of my workmates arrived in the city that morning as the police were trying to remove the protestors because they were one, in a major intersection and two, peak hour was about to start. the plice did not bother them for the hours they were there before. As protestors resisted moving, the police did what they could to maintain order.
Which goes to say – I’m not saying Australia is a racism-free country. It happens – but it’s not more than any other country out there. but it’s not a question of ‘your country is mor racist than mine”. How is that relevant???
The police and the Government are working hard to find out what is happening. Before jumping to any conclusions, this needs to be done. IF the attacks are racially motivated, believe me it won’t be taken lightly and something will be done.
Read this – it might help:
1. its a pity that u implicate a man who cannot defend himself right now.. when u have a newspaper article saying he threw a brick, there are articles in other newspapers which do not say that – on what basis can you repeat (and not just say) its a brawl gone bad
2. although not many ozzies are in india, but tell me what would oz gov had said and done if there were even 3 (half of 6) ozzies brutalized in india? i.e. 3 out of 1000s everyday – crime rate in india i suppose..
to this end, indian gov has been as reactive as u can think of them to be.. so people facing the wrath – if they protest, is it wrong?
3. You know racism – if you dont get a job because of your skin color – ok so thats the only sort of racism there is… thanks for enlightening all of us
I am not really shocked by your comments. you seem to be lucky that you havent suffered due to racism… yet.. until you do, everything would seem fine.. good luck to u but really telling u, Perth is not a good place to be either, sooner or later they gonna find u and then i know u will be here (or your website whatever it is) changing ur stance… people dont understand the pain until they have suffered…
Regarding Shravan..I read about it the next day after the incident happened.That’s all I am going o say about that.
So if I get mugged for walking in a shady neighborhood should I go crying racism ?
Is this your definition of racism…..Some one was trying to tell me about institutionalized and social racism…what do you wanna call getting mugged….Mugg racialism…?
“O lets mug him …he is an Indian
O lets NOT mug him he is NOT an Indian”
I never said the protests were wrong….did I?
GOI is concerned about its citizens in Australia,It should be …whats wrong in that….And OZ govt is showing appropriate response…read here
Rudd forms Indian violence task force
What else do you want it to do ?
Try blocking Connought place in Delhi and then see how Delhi police reacts.It will go nuclear.Like SILVARA said every thing was under control and peaceful until they blocked the roads
Who is gonna find me .. ? Muggers ?
Well if I get a racial abuse then I will let RTDM reader know.
Racial abuse not Mugged
If i were a drug addict looking for money for a quick fix, i would probably mug a weak looking brown guy, rather than ,say, a guy who looked like Mathew Hayden. The fact that these attackers can take the money of both Indians and Australians alike shows how non-racist they are. We would have to be worried if they did not want our money when they attacked us.Humans being humans will always be racist, and that can not be helped, but a lot of Australians get mugged too, and that is not shown in the Indian media everyday.
Some Chinese kids got mugged near my university the other day, but we don’t see that in the Indian media either. With such a high percentage of Indians in other countries, it is just a matter of time before we become a part of the crime statistic too. The Australian police are equally helpless whether the attack is against Australians or Indians.
Agree to disagree. I feel more unsafe in India. And I am a southie in the south of India. Kick boxing, kick boxing, kick boxing.
Ok i have been living in Aus for the last 7 years partly in Gold Coast and mostly in Sydney..the issue is more complicated than it looks..there is racism in australia definitely..but the vast majority of aussies are not racist.
I will cite a couple of personal incidents to clarify :
1. Recently a member of my family was harassed by a somali thug in a sydney suburban station, luckily i was nearby went into the station and complained to the police. Luckily the cops came and amazingly the thug was apprehended (he was dumb enough to hang around). The cops charged him and dealt with him in a severe manner ( no prejudice against indians here, despite the fact that the offence was very minor i.e no physical harassment)
The man was produced in court a few months later where i had gone as a witness. He was leering and smiling which angered me enough that i PUNCHED AND KICKED HIM IN COURT (not in the hearing room, but just outside) enough to make him bleed from the mouth. The Aussie cops there restrained me and despite the severity of my actions DID NOT charge me. They simply did a “daba diya”to the whole case. The constables actually sympathised with me.
2. On the flip side, an indian person i know was accosted by a group of lebanese thugs outside parramatta in sydney. He had a beer bottle in his hand which he used to smash one of the thugs with whereupon another thug used a knife to slash him across the face. The police were unable to locate or arrest these guys. Similarly i know of dozens of such incidents where all sorts of ethnic and AUSSIE gangs have attacked my friends but the Police were totally ineffective. These attackes were simply for loot.
The bottomline is that the court system is so kind and lets off offenders so easily here that the cops actually are pretty helpless and demotivated. Even the 18 indian students arrested after the demonstartion were let off.
The WHITE racism in aus is more in the form of comments or jokes or abuse by drunk bastards at night. (Once a drunk group yelled “go back to china” to an indian friend…says something about the average aussie iq)
The white racism is very few and far between though. Working class Aussies are actually pretty dumb.
In a nutshell there is Racism in australia but the only way to avoid it is for Indian students to stand up for themselves. I would recommend them forming a posse and actually bash the crap out of any bastard who they can spot(not very hard if you hang around the problem areas). The attacks would lessen as there would be a deterrent.
It works, people have done it in some areas. The police as usual dont do much.
I have been following this blog for a long time, but this was the first time i felt compelled to comment because I was shocked by the jingoistic nature of the post. Lets face it, racism exists everywhere in the world, be it fair and lovely, caste based reservations, apartheid or Santa Banta jokes. Infact, subconsciously most people always stereotype communities like “He is a bong so he must love fish.” The issue is that at some level people get used to the level of racial stereotyping (may be leading to racial hatred) and that differs from community to community. In fact, we Indians always try to take a moral high ground on these issues since we have been the victims of white imperialism for most part of the modern era. What has happened in australia are stray incidents perpetrated by the lunatic fringe, very much like the “islamic” terrorist attacks. Now is the time to not get overwhelmed by collective jingoism or xenophobia. Arnab you almost sounded like those hack writers in The Sun who tomtom about the EPL being the best in the world when you referred to the IPL.
The situation, IMHO, calls for us to remain calm and rational and not indulge in Tu Tu Main Main.
hi Rishi Khujur, Shouri,
Hesitantly, I tend to agree….There’s a politically-correct “blind spot” on Middle-Eastern & North African immigrants’ attacks against Indians in Australia.
Here are two examples with media sources:
1) Besides Australians, students say that they have been harassed by Lebanese groups as well. Ashish Patel, 19, who was attacked by Lebanese youths, is planning to leaving the IT course he’s pursuing at Charles Sturt University in Sydney halfway. “Some Lebanese youngsters brandished a knife and took away everything, including my mobile phone two months ago,” said Patel, who also works as a part-time bartender.
2) North African youth gangs assault Indian taxi drivers
There is also an economic angle to these assaults. Indian students are intelligent, hardworking, have a good grasp of english and above all have a DESPARATE drive to succeed.
In fact they are PAR EXCELLENCE when it comes to succeeding in an overseas environment like australia. Let alone ethnic communities, even local australians, chinese or japanese students struggle against Indian students.
An Indian kid will run rings around ANY other nationality when it comes to career progression if given a level playing field. You will struggle to find a single indian in jail in any developed country..literally struggle.
If you notice, often indian students are caught alone at night ..because they are working those graveyard shifts which no one else will take on.
By INDIANS in this case i mean only indians and not other south asians like bangladesh, sri lanka or pakistan. Even they cannot compete with the desis. As a paki guy in Gold Coast grudgingly said ” har indian bachcha ek ek lakh ka hota hai”. That from a paki says it all.
This leads to a natural jealousy amongst other less educated communities which leads to this malice.
Sad if you think what these kids could do in India if given an opportunity.
@ Gopal Patha
BTW add pacific islanders as another lot who routinely get violent against indians.
Is reservation a form of racism ? And lets look at racism as not just skin colour but bias on the basis of any trait that a person was born with … Surname, size of eyes, state of birth in india , culinary habits of ancestors … Etc.
Just a correction to the “6 in 22 days” figure that you quote. The actual number, quoted by Australian police force is 1447 Indians assaulted over 2 years of a sum total population of 20000.
Of course you can always respond with something like “Oh, but that still shows you that satistically a very significant majority of Indians (like 96% in a year) never got assaulted in Australia”. And you would be right.
Good enough for you; not good enough for me.
It begs the question, what is race?
Do you consider culinary habit as a “racial characteristic”?
culinary habits of ancestors? LOL
I am married to a guy of different SUB-caste and have to hear jokes abt my sub-caste. And keep mum.
Racism exists everywhere. indians are not most racist, but as racist as anyone else in the world. Remember the incident where an Indian man got his daughter-in-law killed because she was black?
Its fuuny how as a kokanstha, someone ridicules deshasthas, as a braahmin does not like lower castes, as a maharashtrian ridicules sardars/south indians, as an Indian, hates blacks and so on.
When will we be human and love all humanity?
Diversity will always lead to some differentiation.
Some of it is welcome and needed.
A New Yorker dislikes the Redneck accent.
A Scottish makes fun of the Yorkshire accent.
The Jat considers the Gujjar Dumb.
The Bangaal considers the Ghoti a bad cook.
The crucial question is where to draw the line between “differentiation” and “discrimination”.
The crucial answer is knowledge, and more knowledge.
I do live in Melbourne and I have not been a victim of violent behaviour myself, but that doesn’t mean I can presume everyone has had the same experience. A Korean colleague got ‘jumped’ right in the centre of the city a year ago. I probably had a couple of mildly threatening or at least unpleasant situations. Things can happen quickly out of nowhere. To be fair, everyone gets badgered for cigarettes and money in the city, but I am certain that some ‘bums’ resort to more aggressive attitudes when it comes to Indians.
Now urban violence against minorities and other vulnerable groups is not uncommon in the West. Europe is far more hostile than Australia. But regardless of whether Indian media is making a big deal of it all, there is an issue here and secondly, the victims deserve sympathy, not flippant comments about (Indian) national character.
And when people point out that India is hardly a paradise, they are missing greatbong’s point (IMO) – Don’t they love to tell us how much better they are than us? Well, then why the chip on the shoulder and the preemptory whipping out of the caste card? Hey, but then what do I expect from The Herald Sun, that beacon of truth that says Australians have brought this (racism allegations) on themselves because – hold your breath – “We apologise too much”. All this while under a supposedly left-liberal environment minister sanctions uranium mining on aborigine lands. There is a very real racism in Australia and that is why, I bet, not many Indians here would ever know a native Australian.
Indians who think ‘we are racist’, with no disrespect, are right in a narrow sense but take no account of history and atrocities committed by racism that was simultaneously social (majority approved) and institutional.
I was a victim of attempted robbery and racism in Sydney Oz back in early 90’s. Ofcourse, it was a drug addict trying to get money for her next fix, yes it was a woman trying to rob me in broad daylight calling me a nigger, I was young, astounded and even told her in all my naivette- I am not a nigger, I am an Indian, not realizing that for a racist white person, if you are not white, you are a nigger. Bystanders just stood and watched the fun while I was yelling for help and someone to call the police, finally I think I scooted out of there in a cab, because I kneed this woman in her groin and she fell down frothing from her mouth.
There is racism everywhere in some way, form or the other. People of South East Asian origin are racists too, even if they vehemently deny it. If your skin color is darker than oneselves, chances are you are looked down upon and made victim of a certain degree of racism. SE Asians in North America look down upon Hispanics and African Americans and think they are better than them. I have had several arguments with fellow SE Asians about this. It is common to listen to “Kallu” bashing for all reasons ant all SE Asian gatherings. It is a shame, what they don’t realize is that when they step outside into the mainstreet, they are considered “Kallus” as well by the mainstream America.
Coming back to this topic, sure SE Asians are soft targets being timid, small in staturea and physique and offer least resistence. It is best to take precautions if you look different than the majority.
You are right. Its bead when it becomes discrimation
A psychologist is counselling a married couple.
He asks them : “how did you have the son?”
The couple is like, What?
“How did you have your son?”
What ridiculous question is that, you know how we had him.
The doc says, Yes, what you did is, “You appreciated the differences.”
typo there- bad not bead
Oops, The above 2 comments were from me, not Nanda Kishore. Sorry.
Man!!!!!!!!! I badly need some sleep. All 3 of above comments are from me.
From the comments that I have read here from Indians who live in Australia…they all seem to be echoing what I have said.
Getting mugged is not racism…it is a law and order problem.
The Indian protest is being thanked by the local media as a wake up call to the govt.Atleast the Indian students have done what the local residents (Aussies) have not been able to do …wake up the govt to the poor law and order situation.
I saw 4 police cars today in perth.This is a big deal.Normal i saw 1 police car once a week and that too if lucky…night time patrollings have increased.
I never said that just getting mugged is racism. I wonder why you keep repeating it.
I am intrigued at one thing. How is a house being firebombed a “mugging”? I am sincerely curious. There is no motive for robbery in it. There is just the intent to do damage. Now is it normal in Australia for people in shady neighborhoods to randomly firebomb other houses indiscriminately?
By your logic, the lynchings of Blacks in the US south and the firebombings by the Clan in the 50s-60s were also due to poor “law and order” situation. Recently in Durham, the house of an Indian was broken into and he was murdered. This was preceded by a similar break-in and robbery-murder of an Indian in Louisiana. The Indian expats in the US didnt come out and cry “racism” because these were “crimes” with “motives”. Firebombing someone’s house is different. It can have only one motive. Racism. Homophobia. In short, hate.
By the way, your assertion that the Indian started the brawl, a link to that would be appreciated.
I understand that you do not want the issue to be blown out of proportion and I do feel this issue is being milked by the media in India, but we know media everywhere try to hang on to hot button issues. But I would be very careful about accepting the police version of the truth without hearing from other eye-witnesses. The current security culture prompts one to investigate these claims before reaching conclusions. Police have similarly used excessive force against G-20 protesters and tried to brand the protesters as violent en masse. This has become a very predictable police tactic, when it is obvious police should have talked to student leaders and cooled things down. One expects the police force to have men who can handle these situations with tact and intelligence.
The whole comment chain is very well thought out, I am impressed to see so many rational thoughts being able to consider both sides of the coin.
Despite the quite compelling comments against treating this as racism, I’d like to mention the following as a reason why I believe this is racism.
If I go in a bad area, and get mugged, that can happen anywhere in the world. I go to the police, they don’t do anything, this can happen in many places where cops are corrupt and Law & Order is not shown on a daily basis on their favorite channel. But if the guy with fairer skin (not necessarily fairer, just different complexion) goes to the cops and gets justice while I don’t, that’s institutionalized racism.
And if the guy with different skin color goes to the cops and gets preferential treatment, it must be Indian cops! 😉
This is a wrong attitude which will stall the development of humanity. If A says to B, your shirt has a stain. You shouldn’t comment that A doesn’t have the qualification to point out the stain. Rather you should take the opportunity to say, “OK A, B’s shirt has a stain but your shirt also has that too bigger”
Rather focusing on A’s stain and how qualified he is to point out B’s stain, you miss B’s claims that B always wears stainless shirts and hence the stain even if it is small has to be removed.
The proper way is to raise voice against casteism along with racism and deplore both.
I never said Indians started the brawl…I just said it was a brawl gone wrong.Any way link you asked for
A Sydney man is being hailed a hero after throwing a blanket over his friend’s burning body in the aftermath of a suspected petrol bomb attack.
Read…A Sydney man….not an Indian…but a Sydney men.Calling Indians Australian…O that is racist…..
“This area is not safe,” he said, adding that another neighbor across the road had been robbed by as many as 14 men right outside his unit.
I keep repeating that “getting mugged is not racism ” because the media gives the impression that only Indians are getting mugged in Australia…and many of the comments posted by your reader seem echoing to be the same.
Forgive my typos, I am having my exams and its really cold here
@ Rishi – Is Reservation a form of institutionalised racism ?
Took me a while to read through all the replies in the thread. In my humble opinion, we are confusing racism with xenophobia. I personally think that it’s xenophobia that’s causing Indians problems outside the country.
It is a common perception in the west (or western countries) that Indians are smarter than the rest of the world (which is true) and this leads to natural aggression from them. They think Indians take away their jobs, and in these difficult economic times, it’s even more easy for weak minded people to take the violent way out. We make for easy targets. The jocks will always try to pick on the nerds.
Having said that, and I am not generalizing this, but I am no fan of many of our students that go to study abroad. As soon as they land in a foreign country, they look for people from their own community and make absolutely NO effort in mixing with the other folk. I have seen groups of students (Tamilians, Telugus, Bengalis, Punjabis, you name it) standing around the university and loudly talking in their vernacular and pointing at the “gora” folk. It’s almost like they are inviting these xenophobes to start hating them.
I do not condone violence of any sort. It is simply not the way to resolve a conflict. What has happened in Australia is really sad and my heart goes out to Shravan and everyone who has suffered. Such brutality should not go unpunished. Let’s learn our lessons and move on instead of pointing fingers at each other. Students everywhere need to be safe. Whether they are Indians in Australia or Australians in China. The authorities need to take stringent measures to curb these things.
“Is Reservation a form of institutionalised racism?”
A more radical idea – the existence of nation-states as the ultimate form of institutionalized racism. Can anyone argue that blocking out people in poverty from entering lands of plenty is not discrimination on the basis of nationality (which is just a slightly different form of racial grouping)?
It would be nice if someone demanded justice for the Russian girl who died in Goa http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Goa/Blunt-force-caused-death-of-Russian-girl-/articleshow/4510700.cms , not to mention the German girl and the English girl.
Aren’t we the pot calling the kettle racist.
Is Reservation a form of institutionalised racism ?
Reservation is a form of discrimiantion, even though it may be percieved as a “corrective” tool undo historical “discirimination”.
But I dont think it is based on “race” of any nature.
To elaborate further, “casteism” as we know it in its ossified form by the end of the 18th century, was certainly not on the basis of race.
@ Essbee and others
We have to be careful in using the word “racism” for all and any form of discrimination, among, social, regional, linguistic, ethnic, political, ideological, religious groups.
By using the blanket term “racism”, we risk losing focus on the causality of many of these issues, and may forever forgo the ability undestand and rectify the causes.
Europe is paying the price of it, by continuously classifying the Islamic issue as a “racial” issue.
Tejaswy – Leave LA out of this. I have lived for the past 8 years in a part of LA that is generally considered to be “unsafe” by those living in other parts of the city. In all these years, the extent of mugging and other violent crime in my neighbourhood doesn’t come anywhere close to what has been cited for Melbourne.
Yes, Indians students have been mugged and robbed on occasion. But never, ever has anyone alleged any racial motive behind it. As Arnab pointed out, even in incidents in the US where Indian students have been murdered in the course of a robbery the racism issue hasn’t been raised.
Don’t you wonder why? What accounts for the difference between the response of the Indian student community in the US and Australia? Why did so many conclude that there must have been a racial motive? What would motivate a bunch of politically apathetic, middle class kids to take to the streets to protest trivial incidents of mugging and robbery?
You do not live in Melbourne. How is it that those who do choose to protest not the poor law and order conditions but racism, plain and simple?
I asked you to provide me a link where it said that the The Indian threw a brick and was thus involved in a punch-counterpunch situation (which is what a brawl implies).
Let me get this clear since I am sure I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say.
“Read…A Sydney man….not an Indian…but a Sydney men.Calling Indians Australian…O that is racist….. ”
So again. What you are saying is that since the reporter writing this story calls an Indian a “Sydney man” the original attacker was not motivated by race ! Please explain this leap of induction.
So lets do this again. In the 60s, a Black mans house gets firebombed by a Klan member. Another Black man comes and saves him. Ny Times reports this as “Mississipi-man is a hero”. Conclusion: The Klan is not racist.
If indeed this is what you said (i.e. I am not misinterpreting you) and this is the best you can come up with as evidence that Australia is not racist, I suggest you do a better job.
“However, Victoria state police estimate Indians make up 30 percent of robbery victims in Melbourne’s western suburbs, where many of the students live.”
Unless the proportion of Indians in Melbourne’s western suburbs is equal to 30 pc of the population (i.e. nearly 1/3rd), these numbers do suggest that Indians are being targeted and that they are not randomly selected by criminals. Many Indians stay in unsafe areas of New Jersey and as Swati said in LA and even here in MD (which is pretty unsafe) but if 30 pc of all crime victims in a certain locality were Indians, I can assure you that a lot of questions would be asked.
[Again I am assuming that the proportion of Indians in Melbourne’s Western suburbs is much less than 30 per cent]
Instutionalized racism = when the government explicitly (apartheid, White Australia) sanctions racism or when an institution implictly is guided by race (glass ceilings)
Social racism = Abuse, taunts and physical violence on the street and in the community on a racial basis.
For someone who has been in Australia for 6 months, you sure do know a lot about the country. I appreciate your sticking by your adopted country even against all odds. I just hope that your adopted country returns your love back and rewards you appropriately for your devotion.
I just heard LA was unsafe…nothing personal,never been there
The population of Australia is
Population of Melbourne 3,806,092
Number of Indians in Australia 1,00,000 round off.
Majority of Indian students go to Melbourne or Sydney.
You have read probability I suppose
Do the maths
There is your answer
Your last question answer….media…. What is the Indian media calling the mugging action ? Racial abuse
They just want to divert the attention from the Skih preacher assassination and don’t really have any content to focus on.
You are just being mean.I won’t reply to you anymore.
Check the reply at Thalassa for Numbers
Regarding the Sydney incident,I was just pointing out that the Press does not differentiate between Indians and Australians.It called the Indian a “sydney” man,You seem to have misinterpreted my point.
Indian student Sravan Kumar Theerthala was stabbed with a screwdriver early Sunday morning when a group of teenagers gatecrashed a party he was attending in the suburbs of Australia’s second largest city.
I have more details in the local news paper of Melbourne of how these events unfolded.The local news paper does not have a website….But I have a copy of it in my library and I will scan it and upload it once my exams are over. (18th June)
For a change, can you find me link as to why he was stabbed.Its not that these people gate crashed to the party with a screw driver to stab him.Can you show me a link which actually tells me how the events unfolded, and why they stab him…and that too with a screwdriver.?
I am quite sure that they did not bring a screw driver to the party just to stab him with it. What do you think ?
The Petrol bomb incident.
Yes it does look like it has something to do with race but….I will wait till the investigations are complete and a final report is made public.
May be it was a personal enmity with some one.
Who is Swati?
Can’t see her name anywhere.
Okay don’t just take my word for it…Please check what your readers who live in Australia have written,they seem to be echoing what I have said.
I am a big fan of your writings and have you on my RSS.I hope this is not personal,Just a difference of opinion on the racialist subject.
I have my exams coming up so am not really able to spend a lot of time here
But there are several places where the victims have been called Indians also by the Australian press. So are those news outlets racist just based on that?
Again if you would like us to believe that a newspaper calling an Indian a Sydney-man (which he is) is a sign that the country is not racist, then again I ask you to find better supporting evidence for your assertion.
As to me providing a link as to what happened, go to any reputed (as opposed to city newspapers—-we have several “city” newspapers in the US and in Kolkata too and not all of them are extremely trustworthy—which is why they are “local”) and find out what happened. Incidentally, I wonder as to why the cops said Indians are weak since a person throwing bricks is obviously not weak.
And Thalassa’s name is Swati.
Your surmise that the Indian press wants to divert attention from the Sikh preacher assassination and is highlighting racism because they have nothing to report on flies in the face of logic. Please do not think that racism in Australia is the fall-back issue for us Indians on slow news days.
Please also do not take my disagreement with you personally. I appreciate you having a difference of opinion. And thank you for visiting and commenting. Best of luck for your exams.
@Tejaswy & @Greatbong: Please read the second comment on this post. I am not making any claims for the authenticity of this comment… I am just providing this link as both of you have been discussing the issue of how the fight started and where the screwdriver came from, and I came across this version of the incident.
Stop lying Anirban. You and that commenter have nothing to do than to sully Tejaswy’s home and 6 month old native land. How dare you? You are just being mean. Meano ! I am sure that Indian guy threw bricks, mortar and abused the Australian for which he was forced to retaliate. As we all know, Indians are the brick-throwing ‘Tejaswi’ type and Tejaswy and the local Australian newspaper are right on the money.
Tejaswy, I am sorry for being mean. I will await your reply after your exams are over or after you manage to extricate your tongue from beneath the Aussie whose boot you are currently licking. Whichever comes first.
Received this in my email today from my university:
University condemns attacks on Indian students: A message to alumni from the Vice-Chancellor?
From: Vice-Chancellor (Vice-Chancellor@alumni-community.unimelb.edu.au)
Medium riskYou may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as junk
Sent: Friday, 5 June 2009 4:34:50 PM
The University of Melbourne community has been greatly distressed by the recent incidents of violence against Indian students in the city of Melbourne. We join our own Indian students, staff, alumni, and the broader Indian community in condemning any racially-motivated incidents that have occurred in our city.
Melbourne has always been regarded as a safe destination for international students, a culturally diverse and urbane place which welcomes students from all nations into an environment of civility and respect. This is a reputation of which all Melburnians are rightly proud but recent events show that we must all work hard to maintain it.
The University has a proud history of Indian student and staff connections, and within our own precinct, I can assure you that we have reviewed what can be done to provide a level of support to ensure safety for all.
We consulted with student representatives of the Indian student organisations at the University of Melbourne, who confirmed that Indian students at our campus thankfully have not experienced racially-motivated attacks of the kind reported elsewhere at present.
This week we also sent a message to all our Indian students and staff highlighting our support network, including the security escort service available on campus and in the surrounding areas to accompany any student who feels at risk, to provide safe passage from University buildings to public transport.
Outside of the University precinct, we continue to urge all Indian students, staff and alumni to exercise caution, particularly when alone late at night (and indeed for all our students, staff and alumni). We are advising students to report any incidents to the Victoria Police.
No student, staff member or alumnus should ever be denied the right to feel safe and secure on our beautiful campus – or anywhere in our city, state or country. I hope you will join me and my University colleagues in working to ensure that all visitors to our campus and our country return home with only good memories of their experience in Australia.
As I mentioned before – there are certain suburbs or areas of Melbourne that are generally known as ‘unsafe’. The Western suburbs in particular is notorious for a lot of crime and has a high population of Indian/Asian students DESPITE this because it is cheaper to live there BECAUSE of the crime.
Indian students typically live clustered together, with many students staying in one home to save money on rent without the knowledge of the landlord (not all mind you but a lot).
With the type of job that students typically have – working late, in dodgy areas, on public transport – seriously – ANYONE could get attacked with those factors.
I do agree that the petrol bombing incident may have had an element of racial motivation but to date – this is unfounded. To use that one incident as a basis to say ALL Australia is racist is just wrong.
As I have said, yes Australia has its racists but no more or less than any other country – you’ll find jackasses in every country.
Read this for another view: http://golkamra.blogspot.com/2009/06/it-is-not-easy-being-green.html
I dont understand this difference between xenophobia and racism. So it seems ok to be xenophobic but not ok to be racist.
To all the ppl. who are blaming victoria’s vicious neighbourhoods plus combined with indians living in bad neighbourhood coming across as meek… these same conditions apply to chinese, south korean , japanese dudes too… but somehow indians are getting “MUGGED” more than ever.
the victorian authorities have themseleves admitted that crimes against indians are on the rise since the last 2 years.
mind you i’ve lived in aus. for 5 years and i think its the best place to live and have hardly come across any racism, but a little bit of curry bashing psyche seems to have crept in.
ok ill ask u a question…
u have to mug sum1…
there are 2 ppl who have certain characters which u know they will act according to:
1.Small dude…ull slap/punch/abuse him.He will beg u ,give u all he has and cry.
2.Will put up a fight and chances are he might kick your ass too.
2=Chinese/korean etc etc
1 for sure
And if u have misconceptions as to wat small chinese can do try taking ‘panga’ wtih one.
Most are trained in at least one martial art at a very young age.Its very normal for them.
Id once seen a small chinki waiter kickin the asses of 3 north indian dudes at a beach in goa bcoz they supposedly abused him.And boy those flying kicks are still etched in my mind:P
Bottom line:Indians are the weakest targets.Period.
I by no means ccondone what is happening in australia.And some attacks like the petrol bomb ones are racial.cent percent.But not the majority
Btw my blog:groversthoughtsunleashed.blogspot.com
a satirical take on cricket and other events 😀
Number of Indians arrested for protesting= 18. Number of opportunists brought to book so far. Emm. Okay.
there was a recent reported statement by an Aus police spokesman about ’17 year olds who have no refard for the law etc and they dont know what to do about it’.
this is true for europe, US, South America, africa….. feral teenagers rampaging the streets robbing, killing…
India (and I suppose China) seem to be the only country where the average kid from even the poorest families constantly try to improve their lot by education and honest effort. (Parrddonn ze EEEngleeesh)
You think that is the case?
If so… why?
Well i do have my friend from infosys working @ melbourne…all he said was that Indian Media is the biggest reason why this has blown huge and still attackings going on. Initially as Tejaswy said it was the cause for Mugging factor and not much of a racism foray, but gradually as it seems to be increasing number of media quoting these statements, the local Australians who sure are for some reason angry that immigrants taking up their job are playing the better out of them, target the Indians. Am not telling that this is a case of vulnerablity but we ourself are to blame in light of these events and if for any reason they need to portray the news, it should not try to sympathize and just show whatsover happened rather than beefing up things. Sorry for the poor students who are targetted and i suspect the worse is yet to come, considering Australians being blamed in their home country(though true , some aussies mite get mad) .
Have been out of action for a while after breaking two fingers in a car accident. Don’t tell “she who must be obeyed” (my wife) I’m typing this as I shouldn’t be!!
I have some experience about Australia, as I have visited it a few times on 3-4 week trips.
1. I found the Aussies to be one of the most tolerant, liberal and warm-hearted people around. Sydney is a bit brash, Perth is full of Brits, Adelaide is boring, Melbourne was nice but slightly pikey in places. Overall a great country to live, work, and raise a family.
2. Four of my friends are settled in Aus with families. They say that things were fine until 2006/7, when severe problems began in Sydney wrt a string of gang-rapes and violent attacks carried out by Lebanese and Pakistani immigrants.
The beach ‘riots’ did not help either. Groups of Lebanese men were pinching Aussie women on Sydney beaches, calling them sluts for wearing small bikinis, and asking them for gratification citing that their apparel obviously indicated that’s what they wanted to do. Aussies retaliated by beating up groups of Lebanese.
This was the first vitiation of the pefect Australian environment.
3. 2 of my friends were doctors. They reported that after this, there was a string of attacks on Indian doctors. Indian doctors in Australia were convinced this was hatched at the behest of Pakistanis, who wanted to scare away Indians so they could take their jobs.
4. One of my friends informed me yesterday that he wouldn’t be surprised if the current hullabaloo in Melbourne is the handiwork of Pakistani organisations ‘paying’ Australian gangs to attack Indians. He strongly believes the recent retaliation stabbing of an Aussie was done by Muslims as well, to further widen the rift between Indians and Australians.
I first found 3. and 4. far fetched and laughed it off. My experience of Australians is that are very nice and down-to-earth, but can be provoked to sudden bursts of indignation. So none of the pretence and hypocrisy of Europeans & (non-red neck) Americans. But none of the restraints of their social nicety either. So I thought the current Melbourne attacks were an exclusively Aussie affair.
Saying that, it is a funny world. Nothing is impossible for Pakistan and China. I read in another thread that China may be manufacturing dud pharmaceuticals with “made in India” labels solely to defame India !!! Lol.
Still, I’ll wait for more proof in down-under before being convinced of a ‘Pakistani hand’.
[ASHIS], I am getting the facts on the massacre of Hindus in Bangladesh together. Apologies for the delay. Intense work commitments and an injurey have deferred it, but I will get it done for you. You know me. I will get it done.
Sorry to hear about your accident.
Let me know if you need any source material for the Bdesh document you are preparing.
Library of Congress at the Capitol keeps a good record of things between 58 to 80 and lot of it is de-classified.
I already have good material. I think its best if I first post it, then once GB is happy and allows it to appear on the site, please fee free to augment any areas of it you deem fit.
Saddened by the election results, but the good (sic) thing is the Congress has to now face what’s coming. And coming it is!!
If the BJP were elected, I doubt whether their perfect political propriety combined with the innate gentelmanliness of Advani would be able to tackle the simultanous onslaught of anti-Indians without and within.
It seems like the anti-Indians within will now have a rude awakening from the anti-Indians without. Ironic. Painful. Inevitable.
Hara Hara Bom Bom and Rishi,
Please take your private conversations off the blog.
Get well soon.
Man you have got some imagination. Any numbers to corroborate your claims? Or is it once again “blame it on the Jews” thing?
@ Jedi Master
WTF are you taking about?
Did you follow the conversation previously.
@ JediMaster : “Man you have got some imagination. Any numbers to corroborate your claims? Or is it once again “blame it on the Jews” thing?”
Hi, JediMaster. Did not understand your query. What claims are you talking about?
CLAIMS ON AUSTRALIA?
Are you talking about the comment on Muslims in Australia?
There were two comments I made in this regard
(a) Muslims machinating the attacks on Indian students – I have already said I find this very hard to believe and
(b) Muslims causing violence in Australia, like the beach riots in 2006 & the gang rapes? This unfortunately is a fact, and can be checked up. This has vitiated the atmosphere in Australia.
My brother’s friend visited Greece with his family in April. He joined a coach trip that started from Athens visited a number of places in South Greece. 90% of his co-travellers were Australian tourists. Apparently, in many places (Athens of course), as well as Nafplion, Patras, Corinth etc, there were throngs of of Muslim gangs (Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Albanians, Lebanese, Afghans, Arabs et all).
The tour guide pointed them out, stating that they were illegal refugees who arrive in ships and smuggle themselves on to the mainland. They cannot be sent back as they carry no paperwork to establish their country of origin, so they remain, begging, stealing, drug trafficking etc.
Most Australian tourists on the coach groaned that exactly the same problem, with identical culprits, existed in Australia. They turned to my brother’s friend (they knew he was Indian), and asked him, why both in Australia and elsewhere, the Indians were completely different in their outlook.
There is a lot of underlying resentment in Australia, something that definitely wasn’t present when I have visited.
CLAIMS ON HINDUs
Are you talking about the number of Hindus massacred in Bangladesh I was alluding to? If so, yes, there are numbers. In spite of the abysmally pathetic follow-up studies conducted in the backdrop of such a horrific genocide, intelligently constructed models can be used to arrive at reasonable figs.
A powerful model does exist, that (1) uses the pre-massacre Hindu population, (2) extrapolates it to expected 1972 figures assuming no massacre, and then (3) deducts the population that feld to India. The balance is the massacre figure. (1) and (2) are fairly rock-solid. There is scope of error in (2), though the number of Hindus remaining behind in Bengal and Bihar was fairly well documented.
I will post these in the relevant thread.
JediMaster : “Or is it once again “blame it on the Jews” thing?”
This is an unfair allegation. Never have I blamed things on Muslims without providing solid reasoning and reliable figures to back them. There are one or two queries that appear unanswered, like my claim on links between Islam and the Nazis. Please note that I had posted these, but as GB can only allow the discussion to veer off so much from the original thread, he removed them after kindly and courteously explaining to me why he has done so. Even without my posting, half-an evening’s internet search from realiable sites will establish these facts for everyone.
Again, even though all my facts are correct on Muslims, I am gaining no perverse pleasure in highlighting their culpability. Look at the last week. Massacres in Iraq. Massacres in Pakistan. Massacres in Thailand. The Hezbollah alliance gaining 45% of the seats in Lebanon. explosive Muslim populations are swamping Europe. India is gone. These features are slowly swallowing the world, threatening to violently uproot human progress as we know it.
Islam has noble aspects. Its dedication, faith, determination and mysticism are wonderful. Its brutality, fanaticism and severely regressive social mores are not. This threatens your existence. It certainly threatens mine. Thus the repeated reminders on caution.
No one needs to ‘blame’ it on them. The Islamic terror is real.
I don’t know about your experiences, but I have found many of the Australians that I have interacted with as super-racist. Australia is one of the few countries where neo-Nazism and Skinhead-ism is on the rise. It is also to be noted that far-right organizations like Australia First Party, the Newcastle-based Blood and Honour and the Patriotic Youth League (PYL) have a huge support base in Australia. Do note that we are talking about a country which had a “White Australia policy” till 1973.
Now let me respond to some of your specific comments:
(a) You say that you find it hard to believe that Muslims are the ones attacking Indian students, but at the same time you make the reader surmise the same thing by writing an essay in about 100 words on how situation in Australia worsened because of Lebanese and Pakistani immigrants and how “some” people opine that Pakis are plotting to take up jobs held by Indians and are paying’ Australian gangs to attack Indians (seriously!!! he he he).
This makes me seriously doubt your motives and hence the expression – “blame it on the Jews”.
(b) Muslims causing violence in Australia – here you talk primarily about beach riots i.e. Cronulla riots. These riots started on Sunday 11 December, when a crowd of 5000 racist Australians gathered at Cronulla beach, supposedly in response to previous weekend’s confrontation between a group of Middle Eastern men (please note – Middle Eastern men, not Muslims) and some local Cronulla beach surf lifesavers. This congregation was organized by circulation of anonymous calls to gather at the beach — spread via SMS text messaging which read – “Come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge. This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support Leb and wog bashing day”. This gathering was also promoted by racist rhetoric on Sydney talk radio throughout the preceding week. It is to be noted that most of the “tolerant, liberal and warm-hearted” demonstrators were wearing clothing bearing racist slogans such as “We Grew Here, You Flew Here”, “Wog Free Zone”, “Ethnic Cleansing Unit”, “Aussie Pride”, “Save ‘Nulla”, “Lebs out”, “Fuck off Lebs”, “Lebs go home”, “No Lebs”, and were also shouting other racist slurs. Throughout rest of the day a series of reaction and retaliation followed.
Conclusion based on facts above: this riot was not a hand doing of Muslims, but was rather extremely racist in nature.
(c) About Greece – So now we are basing our conclusion solitarily on the opinion of a tour guide. Not too wise man, not too wise. Greece earlier had very lax immigration laws, as a result a number of people from the Balkans, Africa, the Middle East and Asia migrated to Greece in search of work (mostly menial). Many of these migrants are actually visa overstayers and failed asylum-seekers. So let’s not go ahead and brand all of them as Muslim “drug-peddling” gangs of Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Albanians, Lebanese, Afghans, Arabs e.t.c. they might feel insulted (he he he).
(d) I have nerve denied massacre of Hindus and moderate-Muslims in Bangladesh; although the number of people killed varies greatly from one report to another, there is no doubt that it was a state sponsored genocide, primarily targeted at Bangladeshi Hindus. On this very forum I have strongly condemned it, and I condemn it again. I also pray to Almighty that such a travesty may never happen again.
You are quoting that increase in number of Muslims is a threat to the current world order, but have you ever thought why population of Muslims is increasing? Is it because Muslims are mating like bunnies? Or is it because more and more people (especially in Europe and America) are converting to Islam and that too without any monetary conversion tactics, as employed by Christen missionaries.
I do agree that Islam is currently plagued by fanaticism of some individuals and social ills of some of the societies it is prevalent in. I also agree that the aforementioned fanaticism and social ills take up most of the media spotlight and undoubtedly are threat to everyone. Stereotyping of Muslims only embitters already sensitive emotions and exacerbates the problem rather than solving it.
Ooops almost forgot.
I will take the high road and not respond to your comment.
@ Jedi Master
Looks like the Zakir Naik propaganda works fine in India.
You could not be more WRONG about how islam spreads in the West.
Nearly 90% of this happens in prisons.
I will be happy to discuss the methodology, organization structure, and funding of how Islamic conversion is done in the west.
I spent some time working with people who work on this.
Lets discuss this outside Arnabs’s space.
Write to me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Or let me know how we can communicate one-to-one.
First of all, I don’t live in India; secondly I have never watched or read anything by Zakir Naik. I have heard a lot about him though, by people sitting on both sides of the fence.
My conclusions are based on my understanding and my research alone. “Nearly 90% of this happens in prisons” – is a false statement. Keeping in mind Arnab’s wishes lets save this discussion for some other relevant post.
One more thing, you talking about someone else’s “propaganda” seems like kettle calling the pot black.
@Jedi Master: Don’t start it with these guys man…spare us. They have hijacked perfectly reasonable discussions and given countless migraines to readers of RTDM in the past. Apart from duct-taping their fingers together, I don’t see any possible way of stopping them from starting their broken record again.
So, let it go, for the sake of sanity.
I moderated your comment. If you have a discussion with Jedimaster and wish to supply him with proof, please do so outside this forum.
Accpetred GreatBong, but I would have thought that providing proof that Muslim violence in Australia, both the gangrapes, Bali bmbing, as well as exclusively Muslim Cronulla reprisals (all the names of the 51 Lebanese men captured by police that were disclosed on the internet were all Muslim names, none were Christian names) is the cause that lit the fuse of racism in Australia.
This is not only informative in understanding the Australian mindset in attacking Indians, but also instructive to Indians on what they can expect in other host countries with sizeable Muslim and Indian populations. Already, there has been an attack in Vancouver.
However, its your site, so I’ll follow your rules. Just a shame that I had a host of information, properly referenced to reliable internet sites (like Sydney Herald, BBC etc) that proved beyond a doubt that racism in Australia surged after Muslim crimes in 2000, 2004 and 2006.
Why do waste your time HHBB and Rishi Kajur?
Have you fools gained anything over the last so many months?
Nobody cares to hear the truth.
Wait till the next big Jihadi attack. Then these guys will hear you again for …errrr… as long as a T20 match lasts.
After that back to pseudo-secularism
@ Rishi Khujur
I can bet that Jedi Master will not contact you.
This guy is are not interested in the material or supporting documents or any serious debate.
Its more of a ego trip for them, for the sake of argument.
Seriously, you and HHBB are wasting your time here.
Anyway, what difference does it make to you that you collect so much material, work on data and ceaselessly try to put forth your point. At the most you are reaching a couple of hundred people.
Are you trying to compete with the multi-crore media with their Teesta Setalvads and Zakir Naiks?
Your audience here is not the type that wants to know these things. They really dont care (until it hits them home).
Man you have hit the nail on the head, I bet either you are some big-shot psychologist or have some sort of sixth-sense. I cannot tell you how surprised I am that you have revealed to me the real reason of why I am not too inclined to get in touch with RIshi Khujur.
I used to think that it is because I don’t want to reveal my identity to someone who has allegiances of innumerable rightist goons and has made no secret of his intentions of getting rid my entire community. Well how hysterical and plain stupid of me, isn’t it?
Dude, I don’t know about you but generally people don’t go on “ego-trips” when their existence is threatened.
I am sure that RK has access to how-to-coerce-and-convert-to-Islam manual for dummies from which he is quoting exact, accurate and verifiable figures like “90% of conversion happens in prison”. I do intend to discuss with him why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, which is an undeniable fact, on this forum (or any other forum that I trust) if the article/blog touches on this subject.
Also, try to post something on Rediff against Narender-“final solution”-Modi and you will see how hoards of “multi-crore” propaganda machine descend upon you with all their vengeance.
FedEx, I am a busy man I only comment on this forum when I see something very absurd like Pakis paying Australian gangs to attack Indians. Are you sure that there is audience on this forum that would actually buy that crap?
@ Jedi Master
“Pakis paying Australian gangs?”
Dont use strawman fallacy to wringgle out of the reality.
Muslim gangs of Somali and Lebanese origin indulge in racist attacks on Indian. This present predicament in Australia also has the same origin.
They also attack Autralian whites.
That is a fact and anybody from Australia will testify to that.
Dont create strawman fallacies to hide the crimes of Islamic groups in these attacks.
In my post of yesterday, I clearly highlighted both the innumerable flaws as well as outright untruths in JediMaster’s postings. Item by item.
I then gave a synopsis of the MUSLIM violence in Australia, from 2002 to 2006, with clear links.
GB has removed the entire post. I appreciate that GB needs to actively enforoe, and demonstrate enforcement of strict neutrality. When many of my prior posts have been deleted (the detailed links between Islam and the Nazis, from the 1930s onwards to revolutions in Iraq and insurrection in Egypt), I have accepted it willingly.
I must however express my disappointment that JediMaster’s untruths and inaccuracies are being permitted one after the other, while my factual refutations & observations relevant to this thread, along with their links to reputable sites, are being deleted.
Not that I mind too much. A bit of responsible googling can establish the truth for everyone. The internet has numbered the days of fanatic faiths sustained on mendacity, propped up in the backdrop of overt yet naive political correctness.
Given, that Arnab’s forum is the best media to reach out to the general populace (maybe 1000 or so), dont lose your sleep if your post, with all its objectivity, doesnt get approved.
Focus on fieldwork as much as on intellectual awareness.
You will sleep better 🙂
I am beginning to see what Rishi is saying. I am considering whether to post my article on the massacre of Hindus in Bangladesh, which proves at least 1.5 million Hindu deaths. It is a long post, though nicely laid out in cross-referenced sections. If it is going to be deleted at the drop of a hat-pin, posting is futile.
Arnabda has permitted Ashis’ comment ‘proving’ the death toll in Bangladesh was only 250,000. And how was the death toll obtained? By only asking people remaining in Bangladesh, and finding out whether they have ‘experienced’ any family-member of their’s being killed!!
This is such a laughably facile approach that even a 5 year old would not make. It completely excludes
(a) the wipe-out of complete Hindu families en-masse,
(b) the massacre of family members of Hindus who have fled to India, &
(c) Massacres in 1971 of the vast number of Hindus who have been fleeing to India after 1974.
(d) Massacres in family members who have died since (the four sons and daughters of an aged coule who have since passed away will be omitted)!!
These are by far the largest source of Hindu massacres & they are omitted!! Using such statistricks on Jews remaining in Germany after WWII, one probably could ‘prove’ that only 250,000 Jews were murdered!! This is all nonsense.
Rishi has proved the nonsense of Ashis’ sky-tall claims. And Arnabda has allowed Ashis’ posting to stand, even though it bore no resemblance to the thread it was in. Yet I cannot guarantee that if I now post (i) a proper refutation of Ashis’ rubbish & (ii) the best theory to date of the number of massacres, that Arnabda will post it.
The theory has been proposed by “NANDAN VYAS” (google this name for further information). It involves :
1. extrapolating the pre-1971 Hindu population in Bangladesh to 1974,
2. deducting the number of Hindus who fled to India by 1974 (there are good estimates of this)
1. – 2. = 3. gives the expected number of Bangladeshi Hindus remaining in Bangladesh.
From 3., deduct the actual number of Hindus in Bangladesh per survey, and that is the number of Hindus massacred. The proponent of the theory has given 2.4 million Hindu deaths. Even allowing for a massive error range of 35%, a Hindu death toll of 1.6 million remains.
As promised, I was typing this up to post. But it seems that it will not be posted at all. However, anyone can check it out by typing Nandan Vyas 1971 etc in to Google.
As I said, I am slightly bemused that Arnabda is permitting Ashis and the Jedi’s untruths and fabrications and ad hominems, yet not permitting the person vilified to respond with facts and links!! But perhaps this is for the better. When one reads the comments of Ashis & Jedi, they are so obviously naive, distorted, fallacious and outrageous, that they require no positive response to refute.
For e.g, the Jedi’s innumeable lies above include two priceless gems :
Jedi 1 – “Far-right organizations like Australia first party, the Newcastle-based blood and honour …. have a HUGE support base in Australia.”
HUGE support base? The Australia First Party (AFP) “WAS” a minor political party, and is not even a registered political party with the Australian Electoral Commission today. It has not contested a federal election since 1998. The maximum members on the streets it has been able to muster is less than a score. The only exception was the Cronulla incident, in which SBS world news alleged that their leader had led 150 people.
Even Pauline Hanson’s “One Nation” Party has been performing pathetically. After peaking at 9% over 11 years ago, its support base has dwindled even further since.
This is Jedi’s evidence for a “huge” support base? While an alliance headed by the terrorist Hizbolla has recently won 45% of seats in a 61% Muslim country !! And the disaster in Iran?
“Jedi 2 – I do agree that Islam is currently plagued by fanaticism of some individuals and SOCIAL ills of some of the SOCIETIES it is prevalent in.
Hahahahah. So the mass horrific crimes being perpetrated the world over by Muslims are not the fault of Islam, but the ugly wretched Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist SOCIETIES they live in?
It is ugly Hindu pluralism that is responsible for the 1,300 terror campaign in India, the latest being the murder of nearly 200 innocents in Mumbai.
It is the evil of Buddhist pacifism that is resulting in decapitation of Buddhists by Muslims in South Thailand.
It is the dark and sinister Australian passion for Vegemite that caused the Bali bombings.
Yeah, right. When I see priceless gems like this, I realise no response is needed to refute. They stand immortally upright in a galaxy of their own.
Some further ills of the wretched Kaffir societies poor Islamic innocents endure :
@Hara Hara Bom Bom:
Thank you, Sir, for that education. And so wonderfully relevant to the topic too!
So let’s recap. Desis are getting beaten up in Australia because of an error in counting Hindu deaths in the Bangladesh genocide four decades ago.
What, no? Wait…
@ He who is dreaming about tosh-toshe bhara poom-pooms “Thank you, Sir, for that education”.
That’s alright. It’s my pleasure. If you cannot educate yourself, I will educate you. 🙂
What was more relevant was my proof on why Australia has turned racist. It contained clear links to outrageous Muslim violence since 2000, like the Musliam gang rapes of 2000, then 2002, and the 98% Muslim violence in the post Cronulla riots in 2005, as well as Muslims violence in 2006. GB decided not to post these.
@ He who is dreaming about tosh-toshe bhara poom-pooms “Hindu deaths in the Bangladesh genocide four decades ago. What, no? Wait…”
No. The genocide was in 1971. That is 48 years, so 5 decades, not 4.
Your are as outstanding in maths as you are in history.
Stop dreaming about bhora poom-pooms and concentrate on your studies, you naughty boy.
Before you retort with the obvious, that was a joke. I know it is 38 years. Not 48. 🙂
Hara Hara Bom Bom,
Just a second. The reason you and your friends (you know who I am referring to)make me uncomfortable is that usually no matter what happens (unless it is a post about Soumitro), you will introduce a Muslim angle and then somehow it all goes to Bangladesh. This racism issue has been no exception. I dont care about Jedi Master’s so-called falsehoods nor your so-called truths. All I care for 1) relevance to topic and 2) absence of hate. Jedi Master’s comments were made in the context of your previous comments. Thats why it stood. However then you retort. This is when I have to step in since things need to be stopped at a certain place. Right?
In summary, this comment-space isnt going to be allowed to be a “Tu Tu Main Main” which is less of a debate and more of a “reaching out” (Rishi Khujur’s words) I have asked you before, politely, to take such things outside this comment space if you feel strongly about them. Please do not use this forum to “reach out” /”spread the message” since my blog isnt a medium for people to “reach out” (debate is fine, ideology however is not) no matter how just your causes may be.
GB, thank you for the last comment – that was driven straight back past the bowler to the offside fence. Maratwok shot! (I was about to write Amen but then I got worried Dr. Bom Bom will accuse me of being an agent of evangelical Christianism).
“…usually no matter what happens you will introduce a Muslim angle and then somehow it all goes to Bangladesh.” GB, now I am afraid to read your new T20 post!
Apologies for some typographical errors in my previous post (kind of feeling sleepy)
I think you deleted my previous post; I understand that this is your blog post and you want to keep it clean.
I just think that I have right to defend myself if someone like HHBB falsely accuses me of being a liar. Anyway its your space, I will abide by whatever decision you take.
This is not entirely correct, as in many cases the initial fillip is provided by ‘secular panthees’. They will begin by some attack on Narendra Modi the “Nazi”, Hindutva thugs etc, and then we respond by something like “Narendra Modi’s perceived inaction makes him a Nazi, yet the massacre of millions of Hindus in 1971 Bangladesh renders Muslims as angels?”
You will notice that people like Shan have not refrained from stooping so abysmally low as to deliver ad hominem attacks out of the blue in discussions we had not even joined. Then we reluctantly oblige. I would say that in 50% of the cases, the secular panthees are culpable.
I appreciate that this may not be how some of your blogsite’s readers perceive this. One reason may be that after wearing shackles for 1,000 years, many Indians are uncomfortable with the norm of equality. Indians are far more accepting of a 66:35 scenario, where we humbly accept 35% of the rewards in spite of providing 65% of the effort. This I have noticed in many scenarios, corporate and otherwise. We are afraid to venture out of this comfort zone for a 50:50 scenario, for fear that will leave us exposed.
I am not suggesting the other extreme, like the totalitarians among the Chinese and Muslims espouse, a 100:0 scenario, i.e you provide 100% of the input, I will contribute nil. I get 100% of the rewards, you get nil. Of course, I can contribute 100% of the crime though!! This is outrageous.
Yet the self-confidence of the decent elements among the Muslims is highly praiseworthy, and we should learn this. At one end lie Muslim fanatics, intractable, cold, ruthlessly rigid. At the other end lie we, lacking a backbone like a soft celled worm, wriggling away like a coward. Both of these are incorrect. The middle ground adopted by the decent Muslims, self-assertion without bullying, is ideal.
I was not planning to bring Bangladesh in to this thread.
There was another thread in which Ashis had made numerous observations on how only 250k people were killed. I was planning to update that thread to demolish Ashis’ B/S. However, as GB has been quite diligently deleting my posts, there is no guarantee my post will be kept on that thread.
And then a host of swift Ninjas and agile Jedis may accuse me of ‘chickening out’ in the future. That’s why I touched upon it here.
And shedding further light about the massacres in Bangladesh is not a crime. The fact that millions of our hapless co-religionists were murdered barely 3.5 decades ago, and we are too wretched to even acknowledge their plight, is a crime. Look at the contrasting Jewish and Indian responses to two Nazi-like massacres in the past half century. One has bent over backwards to find every single fact about the holocaust of their members. They have diligently compiled this, documented this, and present it to the world regularly to ensure no one forgets it. And no one repeats it.
And us? Our government does not even acknowledge the massacre. Our victims do not perform any remembrance of the tragedy. Heck, we do not even have the basic facts laid out. It is a genocide forgotten. And in to this void steps in the spin-doctors of the murderers, the deniers of the massacre. And when we all forget? Then it can be repeated again.
And thus the UN treats a small nation like Sri Lanka with far more respect and trepidation than a useless mass of flab that India is.
It would be brilliant if GB allowed me to present the case for Bangladesh in a nice, structured manner. But as it is likely to be deleted, I have merely touched upon the issue, giving GB’s readers the opportunity to study the research by Nandan Vyas. I am sure some will find it highly informative, as it is the a trenchant piece of research proving that at least 1.6 million Hindus were massacred.
GB, I hope you will try reading up on it yourself; you may find it interesting.
I strongly disagree with your claim on Islamophobia and irrelevance wrt reasons behind the racist attitude of a section of Australians to Indian students.
What I have quoted is extremely relevant and factual. The multiple and recent crime-waves by Muslims in Australia has definitely polluted the erstwhile harmonic fabric of Australia. I have provided incontrovertible proof of this, which you have deleted.
In your posts on reasons behind global recession, have I brought in Muslims at all? No, because there are no strong links. In your posts on over-liberal credit relief measures, or even reservation for OBCs, have I used the Muslim angle? No, because the issues are independent.
However, if Islam is a relevant, if not prime cause behind the issue, then you should permit discussion on it. I once commented that the explosive demographic growth among Muslims contributes to the high slum growth in India. And now foreign media channels are admitting that over 50% of the slums in Mumbai are inhabited by Muslims, with their covering garnished by photos and bon-mots of throngs of running children!
Islam, at least Islam in its current, long and widely practiced form, is responsible for a vast host of problems in countries its members dwell in. From the USA, right over Europe, to a burning Middle East, a flaming Africa, a bloodied Indian sub-continent,, to a simmering SE Asia. Fact. Islam drastically needs reform to ensure 90% of its cruel and irrational dross is expunged, so what remains is the bright and luminous heart of an avowedly aglitarian and confident belief system.
The population of Indians in Australia is not too far behind the Lebanese. After a string of criminal incidents, the Australian’s are ‘afraid’ to even dream about checking this enterprise, far less whispering ‘boo’ to a Lebanese. Yet Indians, a perfectly docile, crime-free, economically contributory group of people are merry targets for receiving the relentless kicks and brickbats of the pent-up frustration of Aussie youth.
Why is this? Because the Lebanese have their ready-made armed gangs, inflammatory mosques, and denying spokespersons to represent them.
And us Indians (in Australia)? We ‘had’ three items on our side. Manmohan Singh, Vyalavur Ravi, and GB’s site. And now that GB has fortified the deletion key, we are left with manmohan and Vyalavur Ravi.
Holy Crap. We are stuffed. Big-time!! 🙂
Great post. It is beyond obscene for Australian officials to handle this problem the way that they are. Opportunists!? An unfathomable response considering 70 students have been attacked in the past year according to this: http://www.newsy.com/videos/indian_students_fight_back_racial_attacks
Perhaps, the economic hit, of fewer students traveling to the country is the only avenue toward policy change.
Check this out ..http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_indian-techie-hacks-royal-australian-air-force-website-report_1274568
You guys might want to read this.